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#11
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Bottom Paint Half Price (Serious Question)
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#12
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Bottom Paint Half Price (Serious Question)
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#13
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Bottom Paint Half Price (Serious Question)
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 05:59:44 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote: On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 19:24:05 -0400, wrote: Bottom paint is not there for looks. Maybe you could save money by straining your old oil through a tee shirt and putting it back in the engine. A tee shirt won't get it, but there was one fleet operator who changed the oil daily. The oil was washed with water, centrifuged, then filtered, and then reused. Mostly removed the sulfuric acid. Casady Yeah, That's what I meant to say. Thanks. |
#14
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Bottom Paint Half Price (Serious Question) RESULTS
Armond Perretta wrote (on 25 April 2009):
I have been using Pettit Trinidad on my 28 foot sloop for many years (1981 boat purchased new). When we haul, the boat is pressure-washed, and then in the Spring the loose stuff is scraped off and the entire bottom wet-sanded with 80 wet-dry. I use a foam roller and about 3 quarts per coat on this full keel boat with a 22 foot waterline. At this rate every 3 years I've had enough paint on hand to avoid buying a new gallon. This routine has worked for many years, and even though the boat has never been taken down to bare glass, the buildup is not an apparent problem. In recent years the boat has been kept on the Jersey Shore in brackish water. This year I have decided to honor the titans of Wall Street and what remains of the financial system by "going cheap." I took a new gallon of Trinidad, split it in half into a new empty gallon can, added what appeared to be about one half quart of last year's paint, and then thinned each can to bring the volume to about three quarts in each one gallon can. This means the paint was thinned about 25 to 27 percent, which is well in excess of the manufacturer recommendations. In fact just about any source I can find would disagree with my approach and advise that I will end up with less than adequate protection. The only advantage to me is, of course, cutting my paint cost by half. I suppose I will find out in the Fall if this plan is practical, but I thought I'd throw it out there to see if anyone else does it this way or has similar experience. Last April I posted the above looking for comments and similar experiences. We hauled the boat yesterday and were able to determine how the highly thinned bottom paint performed. The short answer is: "Very well." This past summer we did an "average" amount of sailing based from New Jersey. We spent 3 weeks in southern New England and otherwise sailed approximately 2 to 3 times a week daysailing in and around Barnegat Bay. The boat is usually moored on the Toms River in what I would call brackish conditions, although we do have ocean access through several inlets quite nearby. I did not dive on or clean the hull during the season. When we pulled the boat we had a bit of slime but not much and certainly not more than on previous occasions using the same paint straight from the can. We had no barnacles on the paint, but they are out there as I had a few on the prop (which has pretty much always been the case since I don't make any effort to treat the prop). I would have to say that this thinning method works for me, as I am now going to get 2 paint jobs from one gallon on this 28 foot full keel sailboat. -- Good luck and good sailing. s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare |
#15
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Bottom Paint Half Price (Serious Question) RESULTS
"Armond Perretta" wrote in message ... Armond Perretta wrote (on 25 April 2009): I have been using Pettit Trinidad on my 28 foot sloop for many years (1981 boat purchased new). When we haul, the boat is pressure-washed, and then in the Spring the loose stuff is scraped off and the entire bottom wet-sanded with 80 wet-dry. I use a foam roller and about 3 quarts per coat on this full keel boat with a 22 foot waterline. At this rate every 3 years I've had enough paint on hand to avoid buying a new gallon. This routine has worked for many years, and even though the boat has never been taken down to bare glass, the buildup is not an apparent problem. In recent years the boat has been kept on the Jersey Shore in brackish water. This year I have decided to honor the titans of Wall Street and what remains of the financial system by "going cheap." I took a new gallon of Trinidad, split it in half into a new empty gallon can, added what appeared to be about one half quart of last year's paint, and then thinned each can to bring the volume to about three quarts in each one gallon can. This means the paint was thinned about 25 to 27 percent, which is well in excess of the manufacturer recommendations. In fact just about any source I can find would disagree with my approach and advise that I will end up with less than adequate protection. The only advantage to me is, of course, cutting my paint cost by half. I suppose I will find out in the Fall if this plan is practical, but I thought I'd throw it out there to see if anyone else does it this way or has similar experience. Last April I posted the above looking for comments and similar experiences. We hauled the boat yesterday and were able to determine how the highly thinned bottom paint performed. The short answer is: "Very well." This past summer we did an "average" amount of sailing based from New Jersey. We spent 3 weeks in southern New England and otherwise sailed approximately 2 to 3 times a week daysailing in and around Barnegat Bay. The boat is usually moored on the Toms River in what I would call brackish conditions, although we do have ocean access through several inlets quite nearby. I did not dive on or clean the hull during the season. When we pulled the boat we had a bit of slime but not much and certainly not more than on previous occasions using the same paint straight from the can. We had no barnacles on the paint, but they are out there as I had a few on the prop (which has pretty much always been the case since I don't make any effort to treat the prop). I would have to say that this thinning method works for me, as I am now going to get 2 paint jobs from one gallon on this 28 foot full keel sailboat. -- Good luck and good sailing. s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare Good to hear it worked out Armond. thanks for the info. |
#16
posted to rec.boats.cruising,uk.rec.sailing
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Bottom Paint Half Price (Serious Question) RESULTS
"Armond Perretta" wrote in message
... Armond Perretta wrote (on 25 April 2009): I have been using Pettit Trinidad on my 28 foot sloop for many years (1981 boat purchased new). When we haul, the boat is pressure-washed, and then in the Spring the loose stuff is scraped off and the entire bottom wet-sanded with 80 wet-dry. I use a foam roller and about 3 quarts per coat on this full keel boat with a 22 foot waterline. At this rate every 3 years I've had enough paint on hand to avoid buying a new gallon. This routine has worked for many years, and even though the boat has never been taken down to bare glass, the buildup is not an apparent problem. In recent years the boat has been kept on the Jersey Shore in brackish water. This year I have decided to honor the titans of Wall Street and what remains of the financial system by "going cheap." I took a new gallon of Trinidad, split it in half into a new empty gallon can, added what appeared to be about one half quart of last year's paint, and then thinned each can to bring the volume to about three quarts in each one gallon can. This means the paint was thinned about 25 to 27 percent, which is well in excess of the manufacturer recommendations. In fact just about any source I can find would disagree with my approach and advise that I will end up with less than adequate protection. The only advantage to me is, of course, cutting my paint cost by half. I suppose I will find out in the Fall if this plan is practical, but I thought I'd throw it out there to see if anyone else does it this way or has similar experience. Last April I posted the above looking for comments and similar experiences. We hauled the boat yesterday and were able to determine how the highly thinned bottom paint performed. The short answer is: "Very well." This past summer we did an "average" amount of sailing based from New Jersey. We spent 3 weeks in southern New England and otherwise sailed approximately 2 to 3 times a week daysailing in and around Barnegat Bay. The boat is usually moored on the Toms River in what I would call brackish conditions, although we do have ocean access through several inlets quite nearby. I did not dive on or clean the hull during the season. When we pulled the boat we had a bit of slime but not much and certainly not more than on previous occasions using the same paint straight from the can. We had no barnacles on the paint, but they are out there as I had a few on the prop (which has pretty much always been the case since I don't make any effort to treat the prop). I would have to say that this thinning method works for me, as I am now going to get 2 paint jobs from one gallon on this 28 foot full keel sailboat. -- Good luck and good sailing. s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare Stupid, stupid, stupid! What you are doing is spending more on haul outs than you save on paint. Your system requires an annual haul out and we all know those aren't cheap. They call this being penny wise and pound foolish across the other side of the Pond. If you would wake up and lay on two full gallons of bottom paint instead of being a cheapskate your bottom job would last five or more years. This assumes a hard, scrubable surfaces such as Petit Trinidad SR which is epoxy-based. This assumes the majority of coats placed on the high wear areas. Two gallons can give you 8-10 coats at the high wear areas along the boot stripe and down a couple feet, the entire rudder and extra on the leading trailing edges if it's a spade rudder. The bow shearwater area also needs 8-10 coats. The rest of the boat four or five coats will do. Why because you will have to clean the bottom after the first couple years with a scrub brush every four months or so to get rid of slime, algae and other soft growth. Also every year you can hit it with wet-dry fine sandpaper and burnish it underwater while snorkeling. This removes spent layers of biocide and renews the potency. I bet the boat yards love your advice but, really, it's quite shortsighted from an boat owner's standpoint. Wilbur Hubbard |
#17
posted to rec.boats.cruising,uk.rec.sailing
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Bottom Paint Half Price (Serious Question) RESULTS
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
"Armond Perretta" wrote in message ... Armond Perretta wrote (on 25 April 2009): I have been using Pettit Trinidad on my 28 foot sloop for many years (1981 boat purchased new). When we haul, the boat is pressure-washed, and then in the Spring the loose stuff is scraped off and the entire bottom wet-sanded with 80 wet-dry. I use a foam roller and about 3 quarts per coat on this full keel boat with a 22 foot waterline. At this rate every 3 years I've had enough paint on hand to avoid buying a new gallon. ... This year I have decided to honor the titans of Wall Street and what remains of the financial system by "going cheap." I took a new gallon of Trinidad, split it in half into a new empty gallon can, added what appeared to be about one half quart of last year's paint, and then thinned each can to bring the volume to about three quarts in each one gallon can. This means the paint was thinned about 25 to 27 percent, which is well in excess of the manufacturer recommendations. In fact just about any source I can find would disagree with my approach and advise that I will end up with less than adequate protection. The only advantage to me is, of course, cutting my paint cost by half. I suppose I will find out in the Fall if this plan is practical, but I thought I'd throw it out there to see if anyone else does it this way or has similar experience. Last April I posted the above looking for comments and similar experiences. We hauled the boat yesterday and were able to determine how the highly thinned bottom paint performed. The short answer is: "Very well." I would have to say that this thinning method works for me, as I am now going to get 2 paint jobs from one gallon on this 28 foot full keel sailboat. Stupid, stupid, stupid! A bit harsh, though I must say his numbers don't quite seem to add up or, as you would say on your side of the Pond, his "math" is suspect. He needs 3 quarts per coat, and his old system therefore used 12 quarts (3 gallons) of full strength goop every 4 years. His new system still involves using 3 quarts per coat, but of goop thinned to 75% strength. In other words he will now need 2.25 quarts of full strength goop per coat, which isn't quite down to the 2 coats per gallon (which would be 2.00 quarts per coat) he claims, unless he's going to dilute it down to 67% strength (which he may well get away with, but I guess that's next year's experiment). 3 gallons used to give him 4 years, and if he dilutes to 67%, then 2 gallons will give him 4 years. That's not "Half Price", it's 1/3 off. And then only if the thinner costs nothing. What you are doing is spending more on haul outs than you save on paint. Your system requires an annual haul out and we all know those aren't cheap. They call this being penny wise and pound foolish across the other side of the Pond. But he may well be hauling out annually anyway, for other reasons, even in those years when no painting would be needed. |
#18
posted to rec.boats.cruising,uk.rec.sailing
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Bottom Paint Half Price (Serious Question) RESULTS
Ronald Raygun wrote:
Wilbur Hubbard wrote: "Armond Perretta" wrote in message ... Armond Perretta wrote (on 25 April 2009): I have been using Pettit Trinidad on my 28 foot sloop for many years (1981 boat purchased new). When we haul, the boat is pressure-washed, and then in the Spring the loose stuff is scraped off and the entire bottom wet-sanded with 80 wet-dry. I use a foam roller and about 3 quarts per coat on this full keel boat with a 22 foot waterline. At this rate every 3 years I've had enough paint on hand to avoid buying a new gallon. ... This year I have decided to honor the titans of Wall Street and what remains of the financial system by "going cheap." I took a new gallon of Trinidad, split it in half into a new empty gallon can, added what appeared to be about one half quart of last year's paint, and then thinned each can to bring the volume to about three quarts in each one gallon can. This means the paint was thinned about 25 to 27 percent, which is well in excess of the manufacturer recommendations. In fact just about any source I can find would disagree with my approach and advise that I will end up with less than adequate protection. The only advantage to me is, of course, cutting my paint cost by half. I suppose I will find out in the Fall if this plan is practical, but I thought I'd throw it out there to see if anyone else does it this way or has similar experience. Last April I posted the above looking for comments and similar experiences. We hauled the boat yesterday and were able to determine how the highly thinned bottom paint performed. The short answer is: "Very well." I would have to say that this thinning method works for me, as I am now going to get 2 paint jobs from one gallon on this 28 foot full keel sailboat. Stupid, stupid, stupid! A bit harsh, though I must say his numbers don't quite seem to add up or, as you would say on your side of the Pond, his "math" is suspect. He needs 3 quarts per coat, and his old system therefore used 12 quarts (3 gallons) of full strength goop every 4 years. His new system still involves using 3 quarts per coat, but of goop thinned to 75% strength. In other words he will now need 2.25 quarts of full strength goop per coat, which isn't quite down to the 2 coats per gallon (which would be 2.00 quarts per coat) he claims, unless he's going to dilute it down to 67% strength (which he may well get away with, but I guess that's next year's experiment). 3 gallons used to give him 4 years, and if he dilutes to 67%, then 2 gallons will give him 4 years. That's not "Half Price", it's 1/3 off. And then only if the thinner costs nothing. What you are doing is spending more on haul outs than you save on paint. Your system requires an annual haul out and we all know those aren't cheap. They call this being penny wise and pound foolish across the other side of the Pond. But he may well be hauling out annually anyway, for other reasons, even in those years when no painting would be needed. Well for what its worth, 5 litres of Jotun Seaguardian will do over 4 coats on a full keel 26 footer. That's two coats per year rolled on, + extra coats near the waterline and on the rudder. Seaguardian is supposed to be good for 30 months, but we haul annually anyway and might as well freshen up the antifouling while we are out. The part tin will keep a year if properly resealed with some butane gas in there to displace the air and prevent it oxidizing. There is some thinners to add to the bill but that's used at well under the 10% max ratio recommended. Works pretty good as well, with no weed or barnacles unless it's got rubbed off somewhere. Any spot that has got rubbed or has to be taken back to the gelcoat for any reason gets underwater primer followed by black hard scrubbable 'waterline' antifouling as a 'witness' coat and to prevent serious fouling if it happens again. The same tiny can of scrubbable has been on the go for the last two years and there is plenty left. For all you mathematically challenged Leftpondians 1 litre is just under a US quart. This year I set aside half the big can as soon as I opened it as I had a clean 2.5 litre tin handy. If you are keeping it, you want it well mixed, as fresh as possible and to set it aside *before* mixing in old paint. I read it as every third year he avoided buying a new can so that's 2 US gallons for 3 years and he's reduced to 1 for 2 years by diluting it. How he got 3 quarts left after two years and reckons to save half by thinning, I do not know, but unless he's measured what's left in the can accurately I wouldn't believe his 3 quarts per coat. Unless he's getting more paint on himself and the hard standing he's slapping it on far thicker than we do as we are doing two coats. I reckon I'd have had plenty from my half can to do a 28 footer at an even two coats all over with a bit spare for the waterline and where the prop wash hits the rudder. The biggest saving would be buy a radiator roller handle and the *GOOD* (i.e. EXPENSIVE) rollers to go on it. A fully loaded large roller is to heavy and awkward and cheap rollers break up too much and waste paint. The extra length of the radiator roller handle makes the job go much quicker with less stooping. -- Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED) ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk [at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL: |
#19
posted to rec.boats.cruising,uk.rec.sailing
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Bottom Paint Half Price (Serious Question) RESULTS
"IanM" wrote in message ... Well for what its worth, 5 litres of Jotun Seaguardian will do over 4 coats on a full keel 26 footer. That's two coats per year rolled on, + extra coats near the waterline and on the rudder. Seaguardian is supposed to be good for 30 months, but we haul annually anyway and might as well freshen up the antifouling while we are out. The part tin will keep a year if properly resealed with some butane gas in there to displace the air and prevent it oxidizing. There is some thinners to add to the bill but that's used at well under the 10% max ratio recommended. Works pretty good as well, with no weed or barnacles unless it's got rubbed off somewhere. Any spot that has got rubbed or has to be taken back to the gelcoat for any reason gets underwater primer followed by black hard scrubbable 'waterline' antifouling as a 'witness' coat and to prevent serious fouling if it happens again. The same tiny can of scrubbable has been on the go for the last two years and there is plenty left. For all you mathematically challenged Leftpondians 1 litre is just under a US quart. This year I set aside half the big can as soon as I opened it as I had a clean 2.5 litre tin handy. If you are keeping it, you want it well mixed, as fresh as possible and to set it aside *before* mixing in old paint. I read it as every third year he avoided buying a new can so that's 2 US gallons for 3 years and he's reduced to 1 for 2 years by diluting it. How he got 3 quarts left after two years and reckons to save half by thinning, I do not know, but unless he's measured what's left in the can accurately I wouldn't believe his 3 quarts per coat. Unless he's getting more paint on himself and the hard standing he's slapping it on far thicker than we do as we are doing two coats. I reckon I'd have had plenty from my half can to do a 28 footer at an even two coats all over with a bit spare for the waterline and where the prop wash hits the rudder. The biggest saving would be buy a radiator roller handle and the *GOOD* (i.e. EXPENSIVE) rollers to go on it. A fully loaded large roller is to heavy and awkward and cheap rollers break up too much and waste paint. The extra length of the radiator roller handle makes the job go much quicker with less stooping. This makes more sense to me than those post who talk in terms of years without haulout and paint so they put the stuff on much thicker. Here in Norway I have to haul out every year because although Oslo fjord has never frozen right over-at least since I have lived here-the channels between the inner islands do freeze in a bad winter and the small creeks where my marina is freeze every year and I do not want to see my boat iced in with a couple of feet or more snow along the pontoons and no electricity or water available at the berths. So I haul every year and give my boat one coat of Hempel antifouling which I apply with a brush and she always comes out clean except for the propeller and shaft. I have not found a rally good solution for these last because the speed of rotation soon takes off the ablative coating of a standard antifouling. However, I have found some antifouling Volvo sell (very expensive) in a spray can for their outdrives which works pretty well because (I think) the fouling cannot adhere to it and as soon as you run the motor it mostly shears off. I always use a brush. I do not go with rollers because they may be OK for the wide open spaces but you will have to use a brush at some point for the awkward corners. I never clean my brushes. Just squeeze off the surplus and leave the bristles nice and straight and let them harden like that . Next year soak them in gasoline overnight and they come soft again as antifouling just washes off in gasoline. I have a 38' fin keel boat with a spade rudder and the whole job takes just four 750ml tins each year. |
#20
posted to rec.boats.cruising,uk.rec.sailing
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Bottom Paint Half Price (Serious Question) RESULTS
Edgar wrote:
This makes more sense to me than those post who talk in terms of years without haulout and paint so they put the stuff on much thicker. Here in Norway I have to haul out every year because although Oslo fjord has never frozen right over-at least since I have lived here-the channels between the inner islands do freeze in a bad winter and the small creeks where my marina is freeze every year and I do not want to see my boat iced in with a couple of feet or more snow along the pontoons and no electricity or water available at the berths. So I haul every year and give my boat one coat of Hempel antifouling which I apply with a brush and she always comes out clean except for the propeller and shaft. I have not found a rally good solution for these last because the speed of rotation soon takes off the ablative coating of a standard antifouling. However, I have found some antifouling Volvo sell (very expensive) in a spray can for their outdrives which works pretty well because (I think) the fouling cannot adhere to it and as soon as you run the motor it mostly shears off. I always use a brush. I do not go with rollers because they may be OK for the wide open spaces but you will have to use a brush at some point for the awkward corners. I never clean my brushes. Just squeeze off the surplus and leave the bristles nice and straight and let them harden like that . Next year soak them in gasoline overnight and they come soft again as antifouling just washes off in gasoline. I have a 38' fin keel boat with a spade rudder and the whole job takes just four 750ml tins each year. Good point about the gasoline/petrol. Its a lot cheaper than thinners for equipment cleanup - even at UK rates of duty on road fuel - and does a good job on roller handles and brushes. I usually do the cleanup in the old roller tray and that gets clean enough to re-use as well. You would be surprised how much of an average hull you can sensibly do with a roller, and cutting in round skin fittings, anodes etc. is easier with a 1" brush than a big one. Why not wash out your brushes BEFORE they set rock solid though? I've been using a red lanolin based grease called 'Propshield' on the propeller and it's better than nothing as it keeps the fouling from sticking hard so it comes off with a pan scourer. The propeller manufacturer recommended NOT to use paint as they reckoned it increased the risk of electrolytic pitting. -- Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED) ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk [at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL: |
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