THis confuses economic or fishing zones with territorial waters, which
are 3 miles for US, although many countries claim 12.

There is a similar line (Called "The Hague Line") between US and
Canadian fishing waters south of the Bay of Fundy. Canadian CG
sometimes arrests US fishboats that cross the line.

On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 13:31:17 -0500, "FamilySailor" wrote:

In Texas the State has jurisdiction out 3 miles. If you are more that 3
miles offshore you are out of the state, but the line for the US goes out
into the Gulf of Mexico until it borders Mexican waters and that is........
not sure exactly, but over 150 miles offshore. The US / Mexican border runs
straight out from where the Rio Grand river spills into the Gulf of Mexico.
I know, because I commercial fished along the line 20 years ago and Mexican
gun boats ran along the line looking for boats that floated across that line
staying by their fishing gear as it drifted. They would confiscate your
boat, gear, crew and you and throw you in jail, until your family could pay
some ungodly $200,000 fine or more, depending on how nice your boat was and
how much they thought your family might have. I would have rotted there.

Not sure how far it extends out in the Atlantic or Pacific. I know there are
no international water in the Gulf of Mexico though.

Sea Yawl,
John



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Never eat more in a single day than your head weighs." --Jim Harrison

Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote:
THis confuses economic or fishing zones with territorial waters, which
are 3 miles for US, although many countries claim 12.

Hmm? Acccording to a boilerplate note on every US chart I've got, the US
territorial sea is also 12 miles. (It was expanded on 27 December 1988.)

"krj" wrote in message
. ..
snip
It no longer matters whether boat operators intend to enter Cuban
waters, Coast Guard Lt. Tony Russell said. Anyone who does so without a
permit will be in violation of U.S. policy, he said.

Coast Guard officials say boaters who violate the new rules could be
fined up to $10,000 on the spot. Violators caught without a permit could
later receive a civil penalty of up to $25,000 for each day they were in
violation.

They also could be jailed and have their vessels confiscated by the
federal government.

"If you choose to ignore these regulations, there's a good chance you'll
be caught," Russell said.

I do think that the Lt.'s comments make it sound like it doesn't matter what
your destination is. Very open-ended. Sounds a lot like the wording in the
so-called "patriotic act". Anyone that supported that crap of legislation
deserves to spend a lifetime in a Siberian camp.

Sounds like "Papers, please."

Who'da thought GW Bush would have pounded the final nail into the coffin of
freedom? I guess it really didn't matter after all that Gore wasn't in
office. Demonrats and Commie-Repubates, what has this country come to?

krj wrote:
The Coast Guard unveiled new restrictions Thursday for U.S. recreational
vessels traveling to Cuba, changing its focus from preventing
international incidents in Cuban waters to tightening the economic
embargo against the island.

The original restrictions were created by then-President Bill Clinton
after two exile group planes were shot down over international waters in
February 1996, hoping to avoid a similar situation.

....The new restrictions, part of the Bush administration's crackdown on
travel to Cuba, prevent boaters from leaving any part of the United
States without first getting a permit, not just from the Coast Guard,
but also from the U.S. Treasury and Commerce departments.

It no longer matters whether boat operators intend to enter Cuban
waters, Coast Guard Lt. Tony Russell said. Anyone who does so without a
permit will be in violation of U.S. policy, he said.

Read that paragraph very carefully. What he is saying is that if you
enter Cuban waters even thought it was not intended when the vessel
departed US waters you are still subject to fines. NOT that you have to
get a permit just to leave US waters. Basically it eliminates the
special security zone around South Florida and expands it to all US
waters. Up until last month when a cooperative enforcement agreement
was made with the Bahamas it was not practical to enforce such a rule.

The thing that hit me is that the regulation was issued without normally
required public comment using the guise of urgency to protect US
citizens from "excessive force, including deadly force" by the Cuban
government.



Coast Guard officials say boaters who violate the new rules could be
fined up to $10,000 on the spot. Violators caught without a permit could
later receive a civil penalty of up to $25,000 for each day they were in
violation.

They also could be jailed and have their vessels confiscated by the
federal government.

"If you choose to ignore these regulations, there's a good chance you'll
be caught," Russell said.


--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 09:41:28 -0400, krj
wrote:


....The new restrictions, part of the Bush administration's crackdown on
travel to Cuba, prevent boaters from leaving any part of the United
States without first getting a permit, not just from the Coast Guard,
but also from the U.S. Treasury and Commerce departments.

It no longer matters whether boat operators intend to enter Cuban
waters, Coast Guard Lt. Tony Russell said. Anyone who does so without a
permit will be in violation of U.S. policy, he said.


Does this apply only to those who visit Cuba, or does it apply to any
destination?

There is a huge number of American boaters in the Gulf Islands and
Inside Passage.

Jack

__________________________________________________
Jack Dale
Swiftsure Sailing Academy
Director/ISPA and CYA Instructor
http://www.swiftsuresailing.com
Phone: 1 (877) 470-SAIL (toll free)
__________________________________________________

I'm not familiar with "recreational" boating requirements for sailing to
a "foreign" port, but any commercial operation is required to "clear
foreign" with Customs/Immigration prior to departure, so I'm wondering
what the difference is, here?

otn

Reading the commentary to date suggests that one not actually leaving the US
(that is, intentionally departing to foreign shores) and not entering
(intentionally or not) Cuban waters is exempt from this stuff?

Conversely, anyone intentionally departing (such as for Mexico, Bahamas or
Bermuda, common destinations from US ports, or, very commonly, USVI to BVI)
has to declare such departure, somehow?

Not of immediate interest, but certainly of proximate interest, as we'll
have to leave FL once we splash, and we'll most likely go either to Mexico
or Bahamas to be able to document such departure to the FL DOR within the 30
days allowed...

L8R

Skip and Lydia


--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a
clear night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize
that you are quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to
you that in the general scheme of things you are merely an
insignificant speck on the surface of the ocean; and are not nearly
so important or as self-sufficient as you thought you were. Which is
an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one that may effect a
permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly appreciated
by your friends." - James S. Pitkin

"krj" wrote in message
. ..
The Coast Guard unveiled new restrictions Thursday for U.S. recreational
vessels traveling to Cuba, changing its focus from preventing
international incidents in Cuban waters to tightening the economic
embargo against the island.

The original restrictions were created by then-President Bill Clinton
after two exile group planes were shot down over international waters in
February 1996, hoping to avoid a similar situation.

....The new restrictions, part of the Bush administration's crackdown on
travel to Cuba, prevent boaters from leaving any part of the United
States without first getting a permit, not just from the Coast Guard,
but also from the U.S. Treasury and Commerce departments.

It no longer matters whether boat operators intend to enter Cuban
waters, Coast Guard Lt. Tony Russell said. Anyone who does so without a
permit will be in violation of U.S. policy, he said.

Coast Guard officials say boaters who violate the new rules could be
fined up to $10,000 on the spot. Violators caught without a permit could
later receive a civil penalty of up to $25,000 for each day they were in
violation.

They also could be jailed and have their vessels confiscated by the
federal government.

"If you choose to ignore these regulations, there's a good chance you'll
be caught," Russell said.

According to the USCG Website, permit is required only for vessels traveling
from US territorial waters to Cuban territorial water. Site
(http://www.uscg.mil/USCG.shtm) says :"The Coast Guard has new restrictions for
U.S. vessels and vessels without nationality less than 100 meters long traveling
to Cuba. These vessels must have a Coast Guard-issued permit in order to travel
from U.S. territorial waters to Cuban territorial waters. The regulation,
published today, replaces a previous three-mile security zone around the Florida
Peninsula."
"Skip Gundlach" wrote:

Reading the commentary to date suggests that one not actually leaving the US
(that is, intentionally departing to foreign shores) and not entering
(intentionally or not) Cuban waters is exempt from this stuff?

Conversely, anyone intentionally departing (such as for Mexico, Bahamas or
Bermuda, common destinations from US ports, or, very commonly, USVI to BVI)
has to declare such departure, somehow?

Not of immediate interest, but certainly of proximate interest, as we'll
have to leave FL once we splash, and we'll most likely go either to Mexico
or Bahamas to be able to document such departure to the FL DOR within the 30
days allowed...

L8R

Skip and Lydia

What they are saying is that if you are a US owned vessel or a
non-flagged vessel and you depart from within 12 miles of the coast of
the US you must receive written permission to enter Cuba BEFORE you
leave. It does not matter how long the cruise last or what countries
you visit before hand. If you enter Cuban waters, that is, within 12
miles of the Cuban coast line, at any time without that letter on the
boat you are in violation.

The immediate problem I see is that it effectively closes off the 10
mile wide Old Bahama Channel. For the last year the channel has gotten
popular with delivery skippers bring boats up from the Caribbean and
staying off the Bank to avoid paying the $300 Bahamas cruising fee.

Skip Gundlach wrote:

Reading the commentary to date suggests that one not actually leaving the US
(that is, intentionally departing to foreign shores) and not entering
(intentionally or not) Cuban waters is exempt from this stuff?

Conversely, anyone intentionally departing (such as for Mexico, Bahamas or
Bermuda, common destinations from US ports, or, very commonly, USVI to BVI)
has to declare such departure, somehow?

Not of immediate interest, but certainly of proximate interest, as we'll
have to leave FL once we splash, and we'll most likely go either to Mexico
or Bahamas to be able to document such departure to the FL DOR within the 30
days allowed...

L8R

Skip and Lydia



--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com