This has been interesting to follow. Not sure if many picked up the
tad hint of facetiousness of its' origins tho? Or should that be
written as fecetiousness? Great thread nonetheless, sort of reminds me
abit of the good ole CompuServe sailing forum days of a decade or so
ago.

Anyway, back to the subject here, I admit, prior to stepping on a boat
to go cruising at age 19/20 or so in the late 80's, I for one didn't
know more would be required than just rinsing produce in water in some
stops made - more like soaking in bleach/water. Admit again, ask me
what e-coli was back in those days, I may've guessed a goth band from
the UK. Put that down to living in Australian-style sheltered
terra-firma mum-did-all-the-cooking and I just wanna attend nightclubs
surburbia I suppose.

Admit once again, didn't know about cans and the potential of botulism
either - again - till cruising - cans were usually consumed within a
healthy timeframe in my then brick&mortar surrounds. If any swelled,
they usually went the next step and exploded. That was when my dad or
brothers would put their beer cans in for a quick chill and forget
about them.

Not sure what some cruisers can do in some cases about sticking to
their diet and/or determining what's healthy to consume or not when in
foreign ports tho? My other half during his circumnavigation (done
whilst a youngin') was often the guest in many a port & home - ranging
from a harbor master somewhere over there in Indonesia to bbq'ing with
the Zulus. He may not have felt quite right asking his Zulu hosts if
they used a meat thermometer.

Thankfully, the young circumnavigator I speak and spoke of at that
other thread made it back safe & sound after 7 years and wasn't
subject to the killer of cruisers. Even more amazing when you consider
he didn't have the internet or Gualiter back then to glean information
from either.
Cheers for now
Karen
Hi Rosalie, my other half told me of that story he heard (the
cruiser's death) back in 1987. So if true, it would've been prior to
that year.

Rosalie B. wrote in message . ..
(JAXAshby) wrote:

Why, it is E.Coli from fresh vegetables. For two million years, humans have
been eating fresh vegetables and finally we learn we can die from it.

What incredible stuff one can find out about on the Internet.

http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560
83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135

btw, here what the FDA has to say about E.Coli. Not that the most susiptble
are the very young and the elderly, which of course is most cruising sailors
out there.

http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap15.html

That article doesn't say that it is fresh vegetables. It says

Undercooked or raw hamburger (ground beef) has been implicated in many of the documented outbreaks, however E. coli O157:H7 outbreaks have implicated alfalfa sprouts, unpasteurized fruit juices, dry-cured salami, lettuce, game meat, and cheese curds. Raw milk was the vehicle in a school outbreak in Canada.

The vegetables mentioned are lettuce and alfalfa sprouts. Most of the
other things are meat or dairy.

This isn't new BTW - has been known since 1982. As far as the 'very
young and elderly', it says

All people are believed to be susceptible to hemorrhagic colitis, but young children and the elderly appear to progress to more serious symptoms more frequently.

I have not seen any cites that say that cruising sailors have been
killed.




grandma Rosalie

Interesting thread.
My opinions/observations for what they are worth...
Food hygene is a personal issue, and everyone has their
own threshold. Me? Yes, I wash my hands several times
a day...mainly to reduce the chance of getting the flu and colds.
Seems to work.

Produce? Yep, I at least rinse it...mainly to get rid of as much
pesticides as possible. Does it work? Who knows.. Do I eat
salad in far away destinations? No. Do I drink the water? Not
if I can get bottled water. Should I remain tied to the dock
because my opinion of what's safe for me is different from
the opinion of others? I don't think so. I'll do what I have to do,
and expect you to do the same...

As regards E. Coli, I thought the bad bugs (which were
responsible for the fast-food outbreaks) were due to bovine
fecal matter....not human. A book titled "Germs, Steel and Guns"
(I think that's the title)
suggests that when people started forming communities, illness
wiped out a lot of them. The cause seemed to be that instead of
people and animals being separated in the open, during their
nomadic days, they now were all bunched up to the point of
sleeping in common areas with their farm animals and each other.
No one knew that cleaning the pens, and a bit of separation was a
good thing. It wasn't the only cause of death by any means,
but it contributed,and still does today.
As been pointed out by others, E.Coli is a moderate risk, absent
any other factors...age being the most common. Do we know for
a certainity we don't have any other factors on a given day? Of
course not, but we shouldn't worry about it....we'd drive ourselves nuts.
As for me..I'll avoid exposure if possible...I don't
enjoy getting sick just to prove I can eat tainted foods and survive.

I think a large degree of risk depends on what your system
is used to. When I was a kid growing up in Colorado, we
all would flop down on our belly and drink from rivers,
creeks, irrigation ditches, etc. (some of which ran through the
town dump), and never seemed to suffer ill effects.
I'm sure if I did that now..I'd die..lol

It's commonly said that people who come to the USA have
stomach problems for a few weeks, just as we do when we
visit their country.

One point we all should remember is that what's OK for one
person may not be for another, so advice in a public forum
should be qualified, and on the cautious side.
Plus, a sample of one does not a trend make...just because
my buddy John eats a bug and dies a horrible death doesn't
mean that all who eat a bug are going to die too.

Then, sometimes, people draw funny conclusions. A co-worker
reasoned that since oil/tar/etc was organic, those things should
be safe to eat., and not harmful in the least.
To prove the point, he ate an orange with *very* greasy hands, and said,
"See?" Of course he didn't die, but he spent more time in the head
during the next several hours than he normally would in a month.
And the belly-ache was nothing to sneeze at either, according to
him.

I can't believe I've rambled so much...I need to get on the water!
Norm B