E. Coli is not much of a problem in the US where vegetables are grown
with chemical fertilizer. A fresh water rinse is usually all that is
needed. Because we are rarely exposed to it, our immune systems have
lost much of our ability to fight E. Coli infections. OTOH, Many smaller
countries where cruisers may shop for produce use manure, both animal
and human for fertilizer. The locals have developed a tollerance for it
but it is ALWAYS a good idea to rinse veggies purchased in third world
markets in a dilute solution of chlorine bleach and water. It is
standard practice among many long distance cruisers.

JAXAshby wrote:
Why, it is E.Coli from fresh vegetables. For two million years, humans have
been eating fresh vegetables and finally we learn we can die from it.

What incredible stuff one can find out about on the Internet.

http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560
83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135

btw, here what the FDA has to say about E.Coli. Not that the most susiptble
are the very young and the elderly, which of course is most cruising sailors
out there.

http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap15.html

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

did anyone bother to read the information from the Centers for Disease Control?
THAT stated e. coli can be a problem almost exclusively with the elderly
and/or very young children (can you say "compromised immune system?), and even
then in the context of fresh vegetables only with lettuce.

Anyone afraid of lettuce should never untie their dock lines.

E. Coli is not much of a problem in the US where vegetables are grown
with chemical fertilizer. A fresh water rinse is usually all that is
needed. Because we are rarely exposed to it, our immune systems have
lost much of our ability to fight E. Coli infections. OTOH, Many smaller
countries where cruisers may shop for produce use manure, both animal
and human for fertilizer. The locals have developed a tollerance for it
but it is ALWAYS a good idea to rinse veggies purchased in third world
markets in a dilute solution of chlorine bleach and water. It is
standard practice among many long distance cruisers.

JAXAshby wrote:
Why, it is E.Coli from fresh vegetables. For two million years, humans
have
been eating fresh vegetables and finally we learn we can die from it.

What incredible stuff one can find out about on the Internet.

http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560
83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135

btw, here what the FDA has to say about E.Coli. Not that the most
susiptble
are the very young and the elderly, which of course is most cruising
sailors
out there.

http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap15.html

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

JAXAshby wrote:

did anyone bother to read the information from the Centers for Disease Control?
THAT stated e. coli can be a problem almost exclusively with the elderly
and/or very young children (can you say "compromised immune system?), and even
then in the context of fresh vegetables only with lettuce.

Anyone afraid of lettuce should never untie their dock lines.

Death is not the problem but Montezuma will get his revenge. Good thing
there are few NDZs in third world countries. :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

In article JRCAc.10008$cj3.3167@lakeread01, wrote:


JAXAshby wrote:

did anyone bother to read the information from the Centers for Disease
Control?
THAT stated e. coli can be a problem almost exclusively with the elderly
and/or very young children (can you say "compromised immune system?), and
even
then in the context of fresh vegetables only with lettuce.

Anyone afraid of lettuce should never untie their dock lines.

Death is not the problem but Montezuma will get his revenge. Good thing
there are few NDZs in third world countries. :-)


Anyone interested in some IN-DEPTH information about the disease producing
strain of E. coli known as "E. coli O157:H7" can learn all that is necessary
to protect yourself from:

http://people.ku.edu/~jbrown/ecoli.html

Anyone interested in some IN-DEPTH information about the disease producing
strain of E. coli known as "E. coli O157:H7" can learn all that is necessary
to protect yourself from:

http://people.ku.edu/~jbrown/ecoli.html


somehow it seems to missed the recommendation that all vegetables be sprayed
first with Clorox bleach and then hydrogen peroxide then washed before eating.

Anyone afraid of lettuce should never untie their dock lines.

Death is not the problem but Montezuma will get his revenge. Good thing
there are few NDZs in third world countries.

for ***very young children and the elderly*** (compromised immune system),
eating lettuce maybe.

JAXAshby wrote:
did anyone bother to read the information from the Centers for Disease Control?
THAT stated e. coli can be a problem almost exclusively with the elderly
and/or very young children (can you say "compromised immune system?), and even
then in the context of fresh vegetables only with lettuce.

Anyone afraid of lettuce should never untie their dock lines.

Sad, true?

Perhaps it would be better for us to ask our doctors how we can
build up our immune systems to co-exist with E. Coli - a natural
inhabitant of our gut - and other common "health threats." Mabey we
should start scratching our asses and stop washing our hands? Don't
forget, we evolved to prosper in such an environment: cold, wet,
hungry, bug bitten, barefoot and starved.

Maybe it's true, as rumoured, that physicians want us to stay sick
so they can pump up the turnover of regular "treatments" and
prescription commissions instead of curing us. An old friend bemoans
the abscence of dry sulfur - used in sulfur and molasses, old time
cure all that acording to him works a treat, from our apothocaries
and dispensing chemists. Old timer says sulfur and molasses is
condemned by doctors because it reduces sicknes and their business.
Hay, don't blame me, I didn't make it up. He's 82, he ought to know.

Seems the homeopathic folks might have some part of the truth?

This brings to mind a thought I let go of years ago- perhaps
hamburger should be required to contain, say 5 percet gristle, as a
means to nourish our arthritic joints? Perhaps as an "enriched"
premium product? Why do we need glucosamine and chondroitin to ease
our bones? I know they work for me.

Likewise, do we need to supplement out modern diets to enrich our
calcium balance? Perhaps going back to eating sardine bones, or
chicken ribs? Maybe 5 percent bone meal in the burger, too? That is,
if it wasn't a refinery product enriched with concentrated prions
from mad animals fed on their own guts and nerve tissue in the name
of "business efficiency."

How many other "modern nutritional" dietary deficiencies are we
unaware of?

Our "civilised" diets are hugely un-natural. We need to eat a wide
variety of foods, probably better for us raw. Those who live on
junk burgers, caffeine drinks and white bread are the examples we
need to investigate, and hang the junk food promoters and their
lawyers. Those people are all fat and sick, still hungry for some
missing nutritional ingredient, morbidly obese!

The way it is going, smoking is not gonna cost health care near as
much as obesity, and tobacco is taxed far more than food, at least
for now.

Like all of our other faculties, immune systems thrive on excercise
and atrophy without it. Like our muscles, our immune systems
probably need challenges to keep them fit.

Ask yourself, who's healthier and fitter, us in fear of Montezuma's
revenge, or those locals who survive, even thrive on water a litte
less than chemically purified? Now, now, don't start on hepatitis, etc.

Don't ever forget, some one is using terror tactics to sell "pure"
water in cute little plastic designer bottles. The more pure the
water, the more powerful it becomes as a solvent for aromatic
hydrocarbons, depending on your statistical anlysis.

When I was a kid, I drank out of drainage ditches beside the dogs. I
seldom if ever get colds, nor have I been sick much, except for my
ear, which was "treated" by doctors for many years, improperly, it
seems.

Terry K



E. Coli is not much of a problem in the US where vegetables are grown
with chemical fertilizer. A fresh water rinse is usually all that is
needed. Because we are rarely exposed to it, our immune systems have
lost much of our ability to fight E. Coli infections. OTOH, Many smaller
countries where cruisers may shop for produce use manure, both animal
and human for fertilizer. The locals have developed a tollerance for it
but it is ALWAYS a good idea to rinse veggies purchased in third world
markets in a dilute solution of chlorine bleach and water. It is
standard practice among many long distance cruisers.

JAXAshby wrote:

Why, it is E.Coli from fresh vegetables. For two million years, humans

have

been eating fresh vegetables and finally we learn we can die from it.

What incredible stuff one can find out about on the Internet.

http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560
83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135

btw, here what the FDA has to say about E.Coli. Not that the most

susiptble

are the very young and the elderly, which of course is most cruising

sailors

out there.

http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap15.html

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Sounds like you'd be happy eating PURINA DOG CHOW., its got everything
you're clamming for. Dogs who eat it have quite a bit of life
extension. g

In article
le.rogers.com, Terry
Spragg wrote:

JAXAshby wrote:
did anyone bother to read the information from the Centers for Disease
Control?
THAT stated e. coli can be a problem almost exclusively with the elderly
and/or very young children (can you say "compromised immune system?), and
even
then in the context of fresh vegetables only with lettuce.

Anyone afraid of lettuce should never untie their dock lines.

Sad, true?

Perhaps it would be better for us to ask our doctors how we can
build up our immune systems to co-exist with E. Coli - a natural
inhabitant of our gut - and other common "health threats." Mabey we
should start scratching our asses and stop washing our hands? Don't
forget, we evolved to prosper in such an environment: cold, wet,
hungry, bug bitten, barefoot and starved.

Maybe it's true, as rumoured, that physicians want us to stay sick
so they can pump up the turnover of regular "treatments" and
prescription commissions instead of curing us. An old friend bemoans
the abscence of dry sulfur - used in sulfur and molasses, old time
cure all that acording to him works a treat, from our apothocaries
and dispensing chemists. Old timer says sulfur and molasses is
condemned by doctors because it reduces sicknes and their business.
Hay, don't blame me, I didn't make it up. He's 82, he ought to know.

Seems the homeopathic folks might have some part of the truth?

This brings to mind a thought I let go of years ago- perhaps
hamburger should be required to contain, say 5 percet gristle, as a
means to nourish our arthritic joints? Perhaps as an "enriched"
premium product? Why do we need glucosamine and chondroitin to ease
our bones? I know they work for me.

Likewise, do we need to supplement out modern diets to enrich our
calcium balance? Perhaps going back to eating sardine bones, or
chicken ribs? Maybe 5 percent bone meal in the burger, too? That is,
if it wasn't a refinery product enriched with concentrated prions
from mad animals fed on their own guts and nerve tissue in the name
of "business efficiency."

How many other "modern nutritional" dietary deficiencies are we
unaware of?

Our "civilised" diets are hugely un-natural. We need to eat a wide
variety of foods, probably better for us raw. Those who live on
junk burgers, caffeine drinks and white bread are the examples we
need to investigate, and hang the junk food promoters and their
lawyers. Those people are all fat and sick, still hungry for some
missing nutritional ingredient, morbidly obese!

The way it is going, smoking is not gonna cost health care near as
much as obesity, and tobacco is taxed far more than food, at least
for now.

Like all of our other faculties, immune systems thrive on excercise
and atrophy without it. Like our muscles, our immune systems
probably need challenges to keep them fit.

Ask yourself, who's healthier and fitter, us in fear of Montezuma's
revenge, or those locals who survive, even thrive on water a litte
less than chemically purified? Now, now, don't start on hepatitis, etc.

Don't ever forget, some one is using terror tactics to sell "pure"
water in cute little plastic designer bottles. The more pure the
water, the more powerful it becomes as a solvent for aromatic
hydrocarbons, depending on your statistical anlysis.

When I was a kid, I drank out of drainage ditches beside the dogs. I
seldom if ever get colds, nor have I been sick much, except for my
ear, which was "treated" by doctors for many years, improperly, it
seems.

Terry K



E. Coli is not much of a problem in the US where vegetables are grown
with chemical fertilizer. A fresh water rinse is usually all that is
needed. Because we are rarely exposed to it, our immune systems have
lost much of our ability to fight E. Coli infections. OTOH, Many smaller
countries where cruisers may shop for produce use manure, both animal
and human for fertilizer. The locals have developed a tollerance for it
but it is ALWAYS a good idea to rinse veggies purchased in third world
markets in a dilute solution of chlorine bleach and water. It is
standard practice among many long distance cruisers.

JAXAshby wrote:

Why, it is E.Coli from fresh vegetables. For two million years, humans

have

been eating fresh vegetables and finally we learn we can die from it.

What incredible stuff one can find out about on the Internet.

http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560
83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135

btw, here what the FDA has to say about E.Coli. Not that the most

susiptble

are the very young and the elderly, which of course is most cruising

sailors

out there.

http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap15.html

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

(JAXAshby) wrote:

Why, it is E.Coli from fresh vegetables. For two million years, humans have
been eating fresh vegetables and finally we learn we can die from it.

What incredible stuff one can find out about on the Internet.

http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560
83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135

btw, here what the FDA has to say about E.Coli. Not that the most susiptble
are the very young and the elderly, which of course is most cruising sailors
out there.

http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap15.html

That article doesn't say that it is fresh vegetables. It says

Undercooked or raw hamburger (ground beef) has been implicated in many of the documented outbreaks, however E. coli O157:H7 outbreaks have implicated alfalfa sprouts, unpasteurized fruit juices, dry-cured salami, lettuce, game meat, and cheese curds. Raw milk was the vehicle in a school outbreak in Canada.

The vegetables mentioned are lettuce and alfalfa sprouts. Most of the
other things are meat or dairy.

This isn't new BTW - has been known since 1982. As far as the 'very
young and elderly', it says

All people are believed to be susceptible to hemorrhagic colitis, but young children and the elderly appear to progress to more serious symptoms more frequently.

I have not seen any cites that say that cruising sailors have been
killed.




grandma Rosalie

This has been interesting to follow. Not sure if many picked up the
tad hint of facetiousness of its' origins tho? Or should that be
written as fecetiousness? Great thread nonetheless, sort of reminds me
abit of the good ole CompuServe sailing forum days of a decade or so
ago.

Anyway, back to the subject here, I admit, prior to stepping on a boat
to go cruising at age 19/20 or so in the late 80's, I for one didn't
know more would be required than just rinsing produce in water in some
stops made - more like soaking in bleach/water. Admit again, ask me
what e-coli was back in those days, I may've guessed a goth band from
the UK. Put that down to living in Australian-style sheltered
terra-firma mum-did-all-the-cooking and I just wanna attend nightclubs
surburbia I suppose.

Admit once again, didn't know about cans and the potential of botulism
either - again - till cruising - cans were usually consumed within a
healthy timeframe in my then brick&mortar surrounds. If any swelled,
they usually went the next step and exploded. That was when my dad or
brothers would put their beer cans in for a quick chill and forget
about them.

Not sure what some cruisers can do in some cases about sticking to
their diet and/or determining what's healthy to consume or not when in
foreign ports tho? My other half during his circumnavigation (done
whilst a youngin') was often the guest in many a port & home - ranging
from a harbor master somewhere over there in Indonesia to bbq'ing with
the Zulus. He may not have felt quite right asking his Zulu hosts if
they used a meat thermometer.

Thankfully, the young circumnavigator I speak and spoke of at that
other thread made it back safe & sound after 7 years and wasn't
subject to the killer of cruisers. Even more amazing when you consider
he didn't have the internet or Gualiter back then to glean information
from either.
Cheers for now
Karen
Hi Rosalie, my other half told me of that story he heard (the
cruiser's death) back in 1987. So if true, it would've been prior to
that year.

Rosalie B. wrote in message . ..
(JAXAshby) wrote:

Why, it is E.Coli from fresh vegetables. For two million years, humans have
been eating fresh vegetables and finally we learn we can die from it.

What incredible stuff one can find out about on the Internet.

http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560
83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135

btw, here what the FDA has to say about E.Coli. Not that the most susiptble
are the very young and the elderly, which of course is most cruising sailors
out there.

http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap15.html

That article doesn't say that it is fresh vegetables. It says

Undercooked or raw hamburger (ground beef) has been implicated in many of the documented outbreaks, however E. coli O157:H7 outbreaks have implicated alfalfa sprouts, unpasteurized fruit juices, dry-cured salami, lettuce, game meat, and cheese curds. Raw milk was the vehicle in a school outbreak in Canada.

The vegetables mentioned are lettuce and alfalfa sprouts. Most of the
other things are meat or dairy.

This isn't new BTW - has been known since 1982. As far as the 'very
young and elderly', it says

All people are believed to be susceptible to hemorrhagic colitis, but young children and the elderly appear to progress to more serious symptoms more frequently.

I have not seen any cites that say that cruising sailors have been
killed.




grandma Rosalie