(JAXAshby) wrote:

Why, it is E.Coli from fresh vegetables. For two million years, humans have
been eating fresh vegetables and finally we learn we can die from it.

What incredible stuff one can find out about on the Internet.

http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560
83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135

btw, here what the FDA has to say about E.Coli. Not that the most susiptble
are the very young and the elderly, which of course is most cruising sailors
out there.

http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap15.html

That article doesn't say that it is fresh vegetables. It says

Undercooked or raw hamburger (ground beef) has been implicated in many of the documented outbreaks, however E. coli O157:H7 outbreaks have implicated alfalfa sprouts, unpasteurized fruit juices, dry-cured salami, lettuce, game meat, and cheese curds. Raw milk was the vehicle in a school outbreak in Canada.

The vegetables mentioned are lettuce and alfalfa sprouts. Most of the
other things are meat or dairy.

This isn't new BTW - has been known since 1982. As far as the 'very
young and elderly', it says

All people are believed to be susceptible to hemorrhagic colitis, but young children and the elderly appear to progress to more serious symptoms more frequently.

I have not seen any cites that say that cruising sailors have been
killed.




grandma Rosalie

This has been interesting to follow. Not sure if many picked up the
tad hint of facetiousness of its' origins tho? Or should that be
written as fecetiousness? Great thread nonetheless, sort of reminds me
abit of the good ole CompuServe sailing forum days of a decade or so
ago.

Anyway, back to the subject here, I admit, prior to stepping on a boat
to go cruising at age 19/20 or so in the late 80's, I for one didn't
know more would be required than just rinsing produce in water in some
stops made - more like soaking in bleach/water. Admit again, ask me
what e-coli was back in those days, I may've guessed a goth band from
the UK. Put that down to living in Australian-style sheltered
terra-firma mum-did-all-the-cooking and I just wanna attend nightclubs
surburbia I suppose.

Admit once again, didn't know about cans and the potential of botulism
either - again - till cruising - cans were usually consumed within a
healthy timeframe in my then brick&mortar surrounds. If any swelled,
they usually went the next step and exploded. That was when my dad or
brothers would put their beer cans in for a quick chill and forget
about them.

Not sure what some cruisers can do in some cases about sticking to
their diet and/or determining what's healthy to consume or not when in
foreign ports tho? My other half during his circumnavigation (done
whilst a youngin') was often the guest in many a port & home - ranging
from a harbor master somewhere over there in Indonesia to bbq'ing with
the Zulus. He may not have felt quite right asking his Zulu hosts if
they used a meat thermometer.

Thankfully, the young circumnavigator I speak and spoke of at that
other thread made it back safe & sound after 7 years and wasn't
subject to the killer of cruisers. Even more amazing when you consider
he didn't have the internet or Gualiter back then to glean information
from either.
Cheers for now
Karen
Hi Rosalie, my other half told me of that story he heard (the
cruiser's death) back in 1987. So if true, it would've been prior to
that year.

Rosalie B. wrote in message . ..
(JAXAshby) wrote:

Why, it is E.Coli from fresh vegetables. For two million years, humans have
been eating fresh vegetables and finally we learn we can die from it.

What incredible stuff one can find out about on the Internet.

http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560
83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135

btw, here what the FDA has to say about E.Coli. Not that the most susiptble
are the very young and the elderly, which of course is most cruising sailors
out there.

http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap15.html

That article doesn't say that it is fresh vegetables. It says

Undercooked or raw hamburger (ground beef) has been implicated in many of the documented outbreaks, however E. coli O157:H7 outbreaks have implicated alfalfa sprouts, unpasteurized fruit juices, dry-cured salami, lettuce, game meat, and cheese curds. Raw milk was the vehicle in a school outbreak in Canada.

The vegetables mentioned are lettuce and alfalfa sprouts. Most of the
other things are meat or dairy.

This isn't new BTW - has been known since 1982. As far as the 'very
young and elderly', it says

All people are believed to be susceptible to hemorrhagic colitis, but young children and the elderly appear to progress to more serious symptoms more frequently.

I have not seen any cites that say that cruising sailors have been
killed.




grandma Rosalie

dude, you should take to understand the sources of your information. if you
believe what you wrote below, you believe things no food scientist believes.

Did you buy Special Ignitor Stoppers Mineral Tablets from your source?

The E.Coli in our digestive tracts is not the
same as the one or more that can make
you dreadfully sick. You might say they
just share the first name of a long name sequence. It is not easily washed
away
and food that has it would have to be boiled for a while before the bacteria
would
be killed.
A 'massive dose' in the world of microbiology can be an amount that you
could fit on the head of a pin. Luckily,
it is not that common. Outbreaks can
be controlled if health authorities investigate and act to control the
source.
In absence of that, use good judgement
and eat only food that you know has not
made others sick. (cruiser rule # 4329)

did anyone bother to read the information from the Centers for Disease Control?
THAT stated e. coli can be a problem almost exclusively with the elderly
and/or very young children (can you say "compromised immune system?), and even
then in the context of fresh vegetables only with lettuce.

Anyone afraid of lettuce should never untie their dock lines.

E. Coli is not much of a problem in the US where vegetables are grown
with chemical fertilizer. A fresh water rinse is usually all that is
needed. Because we are rarely exposed to it, our immune systems have
lost much of our ability to fight E. Coli infections. OTOH, Many smaller
countries where cruisers may shop for produce use manure, both animal
and human for fertilizer. The locals have developed a tollerance for it
but it is ALWAYS a good idea to rinse veggies purchased in third world
markets in a dilute solution of chlorine bleach and water. It is
standard practice among many long distance cruisers.

JAXAshby wrote:
Why, it is E.Coli from fresh vegetables. For two million years, humans
have
been eating fresh vegetables and finally we learn we can die from it.

What incredible stuff one can find out about on the Internet.

http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560
83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135

btw, here what the FDA has to say about E.Coli. Not that the most
susiptble
are the very young and the elderly, which of course is most cruising
sailors
out there.

http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap15.html

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

I have not seen any cites that say that cruising sailors have been
killed.


http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560
83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135

As far as the 'very
young and elderly', it says


the phrase you are looking for, and is used by food scientists, is:

"compromised immune system"

very young childred don't have much of an immune system and the elderly often
have lost much of theirs.

the point was that worrying about e. coli attacks from lettuce purchased in
foreign countries is worrying about a non-issue. anyone who does should never
untie their dock lines.

Raw milk was the vehicle in a school outbreak in Canada.

it is illegal to sell raw milk in Canada or the US of A or any European country
or most any other country on the planet. Pasteurization has been the
recommended, later required, norm for milk since the 19th century.

people terrified by the thoughts of painful illnesses lurking under every
lettuce leaf or alfalfa spout they might come across unless they spray
household bleach and then household hydrogen peroxide on the food first should
never go sailing.

cruising sailors die of skin cancer and cigarette smoking and clogged arteries
due to high fat foods/too many calories and chronic excess alcohol intake and
stepping of sharp rocks and bullet wounds from jealous spouses.

"sweating the small stuff" is an absolute indicator one in so far in over one's
head that one should seek the council of his/her clergy.

JAXAshby wrote:

did anyone bother to read the information from the Centers for Disease Control?
THAT stated e. coli can be a problem almost exclusively with the elderly
and/or very young children (can you say "compromised immune system?), and even
then in the context of fresh vegetables only with lettuce.

Anyone afraid of lettuce should never untie their dock lines.

Death is not the problem but Montezuma will get his revenge. Good thing
there are few NDZs in third world countries. :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Unpasteurized milk might be a bad idea, but it isn't strictly illegal. Once
again, Jaxie is just making it up as he goes along:
http://www.magma.ca/~ca/rawmilk/survey.htm

Maine, along with other states, permits the sale of unpasteurized milk as long
as it is handled properly and labeled. Other states allow sale from small farms
(a few cows) and some allow joint ownership of producing cows.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Raw milk was the vehicle in a school outbreak in Canada.

it is illegal to sell raw milk in Canada or the US of A or any European
country
or most any other country on the planet. Pasteurization has been the
recommended, later required, norm for milk since the 19th century.

people terrified by the thoughts of painful illnesses lurking under every
lettuce leaf or alfalfa spout they might come across unless they spray
household bleach and then household hydrogen peroxide on the food first should
never go sailing.

cruising sailors die of skin cancer and cigarette smoking and clogged arteries
due to high fat foods/too many calories and chronic excess alcohol intake and
stepping of sharp rocks and bullet wounds from jealous spouses.

"sweating the small stuff" is an absolute indicator one in so far in over
one's
head that one should seek the council of his/her clergy.

JAXAshby wrote:

Raw milk was the vehicle in a school outbreak in Canada.


it is illegal to sell raw milk in Canada or the US of A or any European country
or most any other country on the planet. Pasteurization has been the
recommended, later required, norm for milk since the 19th century.

Actually it's legal to sell raw milk in both Canada and the U.S. but the
dairy and product are subjected to special raw mild standards, which
btw, dictates much more cleanliness and expense.

See:

http://www.realmilk.com/where2.html#can

(first Google hit for "raw milk")

Stephen