I am contemplating purchasing a Formosa 51 (aka Hudson Force 50) or a
Vagabond 47. I will use it for coastal cruising with my family of six for a
couple of years and then a year of offshore sailing when the younger
children are a little older. I am trying to collect information on the
reliability of these boats and known maintenance/structural issues. If
anyone has any suggestions or comments - especially based on first hand
experiences, I would appreciate a note. Thanks!

If you wish to reply by email, please remove the number "1" from my email
address. It is only there to prevent spam.

They're all total crap - the worst of the worst Taiwan leaky teaky's -
buy something better. For Taiwan cheap boats - maybe a CT49 - not the
crappy CT41's. You obviously haven't looked enough and learned enough.
What do you own now and what have you owned before?




On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:38:08 -0400, "Scott"
wrote:

I am contemplating purchasing a Formosa 51 (aka Hudson Force 50) or a
Vagabond 47. I will use it for coastal cruising with my family of six for a
couple of years and then a year of offshore sailing when the younger
children are a little older. I am trying to collect information on the
reliability of these boats and known maintenance/structural issues. If
anyone has any suggestions or comments - especially based on first hand
experiences, I would appreciate a note. Thanks!

If you wish to reply by email, please remove the number "1" from my email
address. It is only there to prevent spam.

Have you owned any of the boats I've considered or the CT49? If so, which
and for how long? What types of problems frustrated you?

"Ace-high" wrote in message
...
They're all total crap - the worst of the worst Taiwan leaky teaky's -
buy something better. For Taiwan cheap boats - maybe a CT49 - not the
crappy CT41's. You obviously haven't looked enough and learned enough.
What do you own now and what have you owned before?




On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:38:08 -0400, "Scott"
wrote:

I am contemplating purchasing a Formosa 51 (aka Hudson Force 50) or a
Vagabond 47. I will use it for coastal cruising with my family of six for
a
couple of years and then a year of offshore sailing when the younger
children are a little older. I am trying to collect information on the
reliability of these boats and known maintenance/structural issues. If
anyone has any suggestions or comments - especially based on first hand
experiences, I would appreciate a note. Thanks!

If you wish to reply by email, please remove the number "1" from my email
address. It is only there to prevent spam.

Could you be a little more specific? I don't know anything about the
Formosa 51, but have been aboard a couple of Vagabonds (though I like
the Vagabond 42 better than the 47) and felt that they were fairly well
made.

Is your disgust with them a dislike of all heavy displacement cruising
sailboats or is it something specific to these particular boats?

Thanks - Dan

Ace-high wrote:
They're all total crap - the worst of the worst Taiwan leaky teaky's -
buy something better. For Taiwan cheap boats - maybe a CT49 - not the
crappy CT41's. You obviously haven't looked enough and learned enough.
What do you own now and what have you owned before?

--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

Scott wrote:

Have you owned any of the boats I've considered or the CT49? If so, which
and for how long? What types of problems frustrated you?

IMO you should change your sources of information to: People who have
information with good explanations, reasoning and experience to back
them up.

There are plenty of people with good information about those boats who
have never owned one and plenty of former owners with innacurate
information.

Stephen


"Ace-high" wrote in message
...

They're all total crap - the worst of the worst Taiwan leaky teaky's -
buy something better. For Taiwan cheap boats - maybe a CT49 - not the
crappy CT41's. You obviously haven't looked enough and learned enough.
What do you own now and what have you owned before?




On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:38:08 -0400, "Scott"
wrote:


I am contemplating purchasing a Formosa 51 (aka Hudson Force 50) or a
Vagabond 47. I will use it for coastal cruising with my family of six for

a

couple of years and then a year of offshore sailing when the younger
children are a little older. I am trying to collect information on the
reliability of these boats and known maintenance/structural issues. If
anyone has any suggestions or comments - especially based on first hand
experiences, I would appreciate a note. Thanks!

If you wish to reply by email, please remove the number "1" from my email
address. It is only there to prevent spam.

There are any number of good to excellent Taiwan sailboats in the
45-55' size. I've owned my current 52' boat for 17 years (US built)
but I almost bought a new CT-49 or Tayana 52 directly from the
builders in Taiwan instead of buying a used boat.

The short answer is - no I have nothing against heavy boats. Mine is
fairly heavy at 42K pounds but on a 46' waterline.

The problem with the Vagabond 47 & cousins etc and some poorly built
Cheoy Lee's as well is that they were - guess - poorly built - as in
wired, plumbed, chainplated, sparred, rigged, tanks, decks - that's
what poorly built means - not just lots of wood and satin varnish. How
do I know - 9 years of cruising and 18 years of talking to cruisers.

These boats are best left as liveaboards in marinas and taken no
further than VHF to USCG range offshore.



On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:14:58 GMT, Dan Best wrote:

Could you be a little more specific? I don't know anything about the
Formosa 51, but have been aboard a couple of Vagabonds (though I like
the Vagabond 42 better than the 47) and felt that they were fairly well
made.

Is your disgust with them a dislike of all heavy displacement cruising
sailboats or is it something specific to these particular boats?

Thanks - Dan

Ace-high wrote:
They're all total crap - the worst of the worst Taiwan leaky teaky's -
buy something better. For Taiwan cheap boats - maybe a CT49 - not the
crappy CT41's. You obviously haven't looked enough and learned enough.
What do you own now and what have you owned before?

As a former owner of a CT-41, I can only say that this is the most
ridiculous statement I've read here, not directly attributable to JAX. Yes,
some CT/Formosas were finished poorly. At worst, this means judging each and
every boat individually. Dryrot problems in the deckhouse and other plywood
structures (including the deck) are not at all uncommon, but a good many of
them have been properly repaired (or even entirely rebuilt) over the years,
and can be in very good condition indeed. The standing rigging on virtually
all of them would have been replaced over the years (replacement of running
rigging is a given) , and chainplates that were going to fail would have
demonstrated this problem long ago and been replaced. Even assuming the
chainplates need complete replacement, it is not a particularly costly or
difficult task. As for electrical and plumbing systems, *any* boat which is
30-40 years old is a good candidate for improvements and upgrades to those
systems if it hasn't already been done. Those boats should also be priced
accordingly. But this has no bearing whatsoever on the overall seaworthiness
or seakindliness of the CT/Formosa class of boats. The hulls are
excellent -- *particularly* for blue-water cruising. I will grant that the
tanks may well need replacement -- MAY. I would not state off-hand that such
a statement can be applied to ALL of these boats.

In short, any of the Taiwan boats MAY be perfectly serviceable -- a thorough
and proper marine survey should weed-out those which require more work than
the buyer is willing to take on.

--
Karin Conover-Lewis
Fair and Balanced since 1959
klc dot lewis at centurytel dot net


"Ace-high" wrote in message
...
There are any number of good to excellent Taiwan sailboats in the
45-55' size. I've owned my current 52' boat for 17 years (US built)
but I almost bought a new CT-49 or Tayana 52 directly from the
builders in Taiwan instead of buying a used boat.

The short answer is - no I have nothing against heavy boats. Mine is
fairly heavy at 42K pounds but on a 46' waterline.

The problem with the Vagabond 47 & cousins etc and some poorly built
Cheoy Lee's as well is that they were - guess - poorly built - as in
wired, plumbed, chainplated, sparred, rigged, tanks, decks - that's
what poorly built means - not just lots of wood and satin varnish. How
do I know - 9 years of cruising and 18 years of talking to cruisers.

These boats are best left as liveaboards in marinas and taken no
further than VHF to USCG range offshore.



On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:14:58 GMT, Dan Best wrote:

Could you be a little more specific? I don't know anything about the
Formosa 51, but have been aboard a couple of Vagabonds (though I like
the Vagabond 42 better than the 47) and felt that they were fairly well
made.

Is your disgust with them a dislike of all heavy displacement cruising
sailboats or is it something specific to these particular boats?

Thanks - Dan

Ace-high wrote:
They're all total crap - the worst of the worst Taiwan leaky teaky's -
buy something better. For Taiwan cheap boats - maybe a CT49 - not the
crappy CT41's. You obviously haven't looked enough and learned enough.
What do you own now and what have you owned before?

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:38:25 -0500, "Karin Conover-Lewis"
wrote:

As a former owner of a CT-41, I can only say that this is the most
ridiculous statement I've read here, not directly attributable to JAX.

MMMMpppphh....wow, wish I'd been wearing my foulies when I read that!

R.

Did I catch you drinking coffee? lol

--
Karin Conover-Lewis
Fair and Balanced since 1959
klc dot lewis at centurytel dot net


"rhys" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:38:25 -0500, "Karin Conover-Lewis"
wrote:

As a former owner of a CT-41, I can only say that this is the most
ridiculous statement I've read here, not directly attributable to JAX.

MMMMpppphh....wow, wish I'd been wearing my foulies when I read that!

R.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:40:34 -0500, "Karin Conover-Lewis"
wrote:

Did I catch you drinking coffee? lol

You most certainly did, and I must say the citation of JAX to allude
to blustery, underinformed, dogmatic and just plain wrong commentary
is becoming common beyond this newsgroup.

Hey, as a simile, JAX could be the next "Santorum"! G

R.