I am quickly coming to the point of rebedding the deck fittings
on my boat. A brief history: wood decks off, screw holes filled,
core voids filled, now doing final sanding. I asked someone
(a boat yard professional) whether to rebed the fitting on the raw glass
or wait until after painting and bed them on top of the paint. He
said it is best to bed in the raw glass (gelcoat actually), then mask
them off and paint around them. That way if there is a paint failure
I won't have to deal with rebedding them again. Also, much easier to
remove them, sand under then and rebed them than have them all out
and having to fill them temporarily against the WX while painting is
going on.

Thanks!
Doug
s/v Callista

Since you asked for opinions ...

I would paint first, then reinstall the hardware.
If there is a paint failure, it should not affect the hardware mounting.
Also, depending on the hardware, even taped, it will be awkward to paint.

With respect to reinstalling the hardwa

1. I would suggest using polysulfide for bedding, as it is an adhesive and a
sealant, ages well, remains moderately flexible, and is paintable.
Silicone is good except that the area and any 'mess' will likely never hold
paint.
5200 will bond the hardware and will be very difficult to remove.

Whichever bedding compound is used, do not fully tighten down the hardware
until the bedding has (mostly) cured. A day later, tighten it down, putting
final compression on the bedding.
When I have done my hardware, I have added a locktite to nuts after the
final tightening.

2. Ensure there is sufficient backup under the deck to take the loading
intended for the hardware. Now is your opportunity to improve your boat.



"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I am quickly coming to the point of rebedding the deck fittings
on my boat. A brief history: wood decks off, screw holes filled,
core voids filled, now doing final sanding. I asked someone
(a boat yard professional) whether to rebed the fitting on the raw glass
or wait until after painting and bed them on top of the paint. He
said it is best to bed in the raw glass (gelcoat actually), then mask
them off and paint around them. That way if there is a paint failure
I won't have to deal with rebedding them again. Also, much easier to
remove them, sand under then and rebed them than have them all out
and having to fill them temporarily against the WX while painting is
going on.

Thanks!
Doug
s/v Callista

On Mon, 31 May 2004 15:34:49 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

I am quickly coming to the point of rebedding the deck fittings
on my boat. A brief history: wood decks off, screw holes filled,
core voids filled, now doing final sanding. I asked someone
(a boat yard professional) whether to rebed the fitting on the raw glass
or wait until after painting and bed them on top of the paint. He
said it is best to bed in the raw glass (gelcoat actually), then mask
them off and paint around them. That way if there is a paint failure
I won't have to deal with rebedding them again. Also, much easier to
remove them, sand under then and rebed them than have them all out
and having to fill them temporarily against the WX while painting is
going on.

The real question is....how cheap is the paint and/or the paint job?

If you're using house paint, and will have to re-do it in a few years
'cause it's starting to look a little crappy....stick the fittings on
first.

If you're likely to break, replace, or refurbish the fittings prior to
an expectation of re-painting, put the paint down first.

If you are holding the old fitting in your hand, and you took it off
the boat with the expectation of putting it back on....and if it were
to taken off intentionally, sometime in the future...even if not by
you, and were to be re-used; don't use 5200.

If it were to come off in the future, for maintenance or whim, and
does not outweight the damamge and aggravation in it's removal; use
5200.

Otherwize...use something else.

There are exceptions to these rules of thumb.

"Horace Brownbag" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 31 May 2004 15:34:49 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

I am quickly coming to the point of rebedding the deck fittings
on my boat. A brief history: wood decks off, screw holes filled,
core voids filled, now doing final sanding. I asked someone
(a boat yard professional) whether to rebed the fitting on the raw glass
or wait until after painting and bed them on top of the paint. He
said it is best to bed in the raw glass (gelcoat actually), then mask
them off and paint around them. That way if there is a paint failure
I won't have to deal with rebedding them again. Also, much easier to
remove them, sand under then and rebed them than have them all out
and having to fill them temporarily against the WX while painting is
going on.

The real question is....how cheap is the paint and/or the paint job?

It will be AwlGrip. Pretty muc the best their is from what I understand.

If you're using house paint, and will have to re-do it in a few years
'cause it's starting to look a little crappy....stick the fittings on
first.

Gimme a break! House paint?

If you're likely to break, replace, or refurbish the fittings prior to
an expectation of re-painting, put the paint down first.

If you are holding the old fitting in your hand, and you took it off
the boat with the expectation of putting it back on....and if it were
to taken off intentionally, sometime in the future...even if not by
you, and were to be re-used; don't use 5200.

No kidding. I rarely find much use for 5200.

If it were to come off in the future, for maintenance or whim, and
does not outweight the damamge and aggravation in it's removal; use
5200.

Not likely.

Otherwize...use something else.

There are exceptions to these rules of thumb.

Many it would appear.

"Matt" writes:

Since you asked for opinions ...

I would paint first, then reinstall the hardware.

Agree.

If there is a paint failure, it should not affect the hardware mounting.
Also, depending on the hardware, even taped, it will be awkward to paint.

Agree.

With respect to reinstalling the hardwa

1. I would suggest using polysulfide for bedding, as it is an adhesive and
a
sealant, ages well, remains moderately flexible, and is paintable.
Silicone is good except that the area and any 'mess' will likely never
hold
paint.
5200 will bond the hardware and will be very difficult to remove.

Silicone and 5200 definitely do not apply to this task.

Whichever bedding compound is used, do not fully tighten down the hardware
until the bedding has (mostly) cured. A day later, tighten it down,
putting
final compression on the bedding.

Mask the area with tape then place the fitting over taped area and cut
around fitting with sharp knife.

Remove fitting and tape under fitting.

Bed fitting using the old finishing nail trick.

Use about an 8d finish nail spacing around the perimeter of the fitting at
1" intervals with head just inside the perimeter of the fitting pointing
out.

Bed fitting and snug up against nail heads, allowing time to cure a few
days, then remove finish nails, masking tape around fitting and snug fitting
down.

Time for some brewskis.

HTH



--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures

Thanks for all the advise, but all I was looking for was the bed before
vs bed after decision. I've bedded a few hundred deck fittings in my
days, but this is the first time I have totally stripped and repainted a
deck.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
link.net...

"Matt" writes:

Since you asked for opinions ...

I would paint first, then reinstall the hardware.

Agree.

If there is a paint failure, it should not affect the hardware mounting.
Also, depending on the hardware, even taped, it will be awkward to
paint.

Agree.

With respect to reinstalling the hardwa

1. I would suggest using polysulfide for bedding, as it is an adhesive
and
a
sealant, ages well, remains moderately flexible, and is paintable.
Silicone is good except that the area and any 'mess' will likely never
hold
paint.
5200 will bond the hardware and will be very difficult to remove.

Silicone and 5200 definitely do not apply to this task.

Whichever bedding compound is used, do not fully tighten down the
hardware
until the bedding has (mostly) cured. A day later, tighten it down,
putting
final compression on the bedding.

Mask the area with tape then place the fitting over taped area and cut
around fitting with sharp knife.

Remove fitting and tape under fitting.

Bed fitting using the old finishing nail trick.

Use about an 8d finish nail spacing around the perimeter of the fitting at
1" intervals with head just inside the perimeter of the fitting pointing
out.

Bed fitting and snug up against nail heads, allowing time to cure a few
days, then remove finish nails, masking tape around fitting and snug
fitting
down.

Time for some brewskis.

HTH



--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the
Southland)
Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures

On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 19:47:21 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

It will be AwlGrip. Pretty much the best their is from what I understand.

================================================== ===

FWIW, In all of the commercial AwlGrip jobs I've ever seen, they
painted first.

Difference is that my job is my own doing. If I was getting it done
professionally I wouldn't be worried about it. I'm looking for
alternatives while balancing removing the deck hardware and
keeping the WX out until I get the deck painted and the hardware
rebedded.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 19:47:21 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

It will be AwlGrip. Pretty much the best their is from what I understand.

================================================== ===

FWIW, In all of the commercial AwlGrip jobs I've ever seen, they
painted first.

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 19:27:23 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:
I'm looking for
alternatives while balancing removing the deck hardware and
keeping the WX out until I get the deck painted and the hardware
rebedded.

=====================================

I think you'll be happier with the end result if you take off the
hardware first. That's why the pros do it that way. You can cover
the deck with tarps to keep the rain out while you're reinstalling and
rebedding.

What's the likelyhood of Awlgrip "failing" under a pad of bedding
compressed to, say 100 PSI ? Chemical attack? Abrasion? Old age?

What's the likelyhood that water will get under the paint if it _did_
fail, by losing adhesion I presume (consider the compressed backing
squashed down at over 100 PSI by the base of your fitting)?

What do you think adheres better to a properly prepared surface, paint
or bedding?

From what I've read, poly GRP is water permeable (eventually; think
blisters), and to provide good service life, it needs to be painted to
exclude water. Do you want to have water "working" on your GRP under a
slightly loose fitting that you don't notice for a couple years (say a
sail track), or do you want to have the Awlgrip get damp under the fitting?

A little nitty-picky perhaps, but then, what exactly did the guy mean by
"paint failure"? Totally protected and under a compressed pad of backing?

Rufus