"slide" wrote in message
...
Vic Smith wrote:


Though I can't disagree with anything you've said, I do think the
Israeli jews believe they will be slaughtered, or exiled from Israel
should they treat Palestinians like we in the U.S. treat Mexicans or
blacks. I'm not sure of that, but if were an Israeli I suspect I
would take that tack. Though we've been multicultural throughout our
history, there is plenty of opposition here in the U.S. to letting the
language aspect of multiculturalism bleed into everyday life. I get a
bit ****ed every time I'm asked to choose 1 or 2 on the phone. Wouldn't
think of moving to Mexico and conducting business on the
phone without speaking Spanish.
So I'm sure we agree on some things.
My support for the Palestinians dried up when Israel finally withdrew
from the occupied territories and I saw the result.
Not a damned thing changed. Blood lust. Not too different than the other
radical Muslims.
Except when I feel the lust myself - and I have - I take no sides.
These are just off the cuff remarks, and I may be wrong about much of
it, and since nobody pays for my opinions, that's what they're worth.
Nothing. But I do like to write them down now and then.
And hear others' opinions.


The reasoning you give for the Jews demanding an essentially ethnically
clean State is the one that Israelis living here have said to me. Their
argument is identical to the whites in South Africa before the black
takeover. They won't live in a non-Jewish (non white when it comes to SA)
state.

Why? Would those same Jews demand that no area, no voting district, no
precinct in the US be less than 51% white?

The problem, as I understand it, with the areas now in fully Palestinian
hands is that there are no ways to make a living there. There is no
industry. No capital. Nothing. Sure, many impoverished Jews showed up in
Israel during the past 60 years (or more) but they were sponsored by
wealthy Jews from other lands such as Britain and the USA.

What causes radical Muslims? Part of it must be that there is nothing for
them to lose in this world so they become easy to convince that their
payoff is in taking out a few Jews rather than living a welfare life in
some camp forever. Look at these guys as being Mexicans peering across the
border to a prosperous land they wish to enter & work in. They can't
because they are caged up, wall up and patrolled with machine guns.

I am NOT defending random tossing of missiles into Israel by these guys.
Not even close. I'm only saying that, IMO, US policy isn't looking at the
entire picture.


I agree... we're not looking at the entire picture. We need to be a
relatively unbiased broker if we want to help resolve the conflict. However,
your statement that all the people who immigrated to Israel with sponsored
by the wealthy is false. I know for a fact that's false, since I have some
very unwealthy friends who moved there on their own, struggled for years,
and finally became what we would call middle class. There are Palestinian
Israelis who own businesses and have money... not as many as there are
Jewish Israelis certainly.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:
"slide" wrote in message


I am NOT defending random tossing of missiles into Israel by these guys.
Not even close. I'm only saying that, IMO, US policy isn't looking at the
entire picture.


I agree... we're not looking at the entire picture. We need to be a
relatively unbiased broker if we want to help resolve the conflict. However,
your statement that all the people who immigrated to Israel with sponsored
by the wealthy is false. I know for a fact that's false, since I have some
very unwealthy friends who moved there on their own, struggled for years,
and finally became what we would call middle class. There are Palestinian
Israelis who own businesses and have money... not as many as there are
Jewish Israelis certainly.


There are many unbiased brokers but neither side will abide by their
decisions or even sit down with them. I can nominate Finland or Norway
as two good candidates for neutrality.

The problem is (I've spoken to many Israelis here) that the Jews believe
themselves to be a special case. They don't see any inconsistency
between demanding racial integration for the US or South Africa but
refusing it for Israel because it means 'national survival'. That is, in
time, the Arab would be more than 50% of the population and out vote the
Jew - which they welcome in South Africa but won't stand for at home.

Even before then, if the Arab could have members in the Knesset, the
Jews would have to deal them in for consideration in policy. Clearly the
Jews are utterly unwilling to do that - again national survival. If I
push it, then they throw the German Exterminations in my face which
tends to be a discussion stopper.

The Arab is probably as bad in he feels like his home was taken from him
by greedy Jews backed by the evil USA & UK. How accurate is that? I
can't say but the Arab says they are victims and the Jews say they are
the victimizer.

By this time both sides have outraged the other so often that either can
make a case for exterminating the other.

slide wrote:
Capt. JG wrote:
"slide" wrote in message


I am NOT defending random tossing of missiles into Israel by these
guys. Not even close. I'm only saying that, IMO, US policy isn't
looking at the entire picture.


I agree... we're not looking at the entire picture. We need to be a
relatively unbiased broker if we want to help resolve the conflict.
However, your statement that all the people who immigrated to Israel
with sponsored by the wealthy is false. I know for a fact that's
false, since I have some very unwealthy friends who moved there on
their own, struggled for years, and finally became what we would call
middle class. There are Palestinian Israelis who own businesses and
have money... not as many as there are Jewish Israelis certainly.


There are many unbiased brokers but neither side will abide by their
decisions or even sit down with them. I can nominate Finland or Norway
as two good candidates for neutrality.

The problem is (I've spoken to many Israelis here) that the Jews believe
themselves to be a special case. They don't see any inconsistency
between demanding racial integration for the US or South Africa but
refusing it for Israel because it means 'national survival'. That is, in
time, the Arab would be more than 50% of the population and out vote the
Jew - which they welcome in South Africa but won't stand for at home.

Even before then, if the Arab could have members in the Knesset, the
Jews would have to deal them in for consideration in policy. Clearly the
Jews are utterly unwilling to do that - again national survival.

You claim to have some knowledge but seem to be woefully ignorant on
this point - more than 10% (14 of 120) of the Knesset members are Arab.
The current Minister of Science, Culture, and Sport is Arab, as well
as the current Deputy Knesset Speaker.

There have been Arabs in the Knesset since the first election in 1949.

If I
push it, then they throw the German Exterminations in my face which
tends to be a discussion stopper.

Given that Hamas has vowed to exterminate them, it does seem like a
relevant comparison.


The Arab is probably as bad in he feels like his home was taken from him
by greedy Jews backed by the evil USA & UK. How accurate is that? I
can't say but the Arab says they are victims and the Jews say they are
the victimizer.

By this time both sides have outraged the other so often that either can
make a case for exterminating the other.

But I've never heard Jews call for Arab extermination.

"jeff" wrote in message
...
slide wrote:
Capt. JG wrote:
"slide" wrote in message


I am NOT defending random tossing of missiles into Israel by these
guys. Not even close. I'm only saying that, IMO, US policy isn't
looking at the entire picture.


I agree... we're not looking at the entire picture. We need to be a
relatively unbiased broker if we want to help resolve the conflict.
However, your statement that all the people who immigrated to Israel
with sponsored by the wealthy is false. I know for a fact that's false,
since I have some very unwealthy friends who moved there on their own,
struggled for years, and finally became what we would call middle class.
There are Palestinian Israelis who own businesses and have money... not
as many as there are Jewish Israelis certainly.


There are many unbiased brokers but neither side will abide by their
decisions or even sit down with them. I can nominate Finland or Norway as
two good candidates for neutrality.

The problem is (I've spoken to many Israelis here) that the Jews believe
themselves to be a special case. They don't see any inconsistency between
demanding racial integration for the US or South Africa but refusing it
for Israel because it means 'national survival'. That is, in time, the
Arab would be more than 50% of the population and out vote the Jew -
which they welcome in South Africa but won't stand for at home.

Even before then, if the Arab could have members in the Knesset, the Jews
would have to deal them in for consideration in policy. Clearly the
Jews are utterly unwilling to do that - again national survival.

You claim to have some knowledge but seem to be woefully ignorant on this
point - more than 10% (14 of 120) of the Knesset members are Arab. The
current Minister of Science, Culture, and Sport is Arab, as well as the
current Deputy Knesset Speaker.

There have been Arabs in the Knesset since the first election in 1949.

If I push it, then they throw the German Exterminations in my face which
tends to be a discussion stopper.

Given that Hamas has vowed to exterminate them, it does seem like a
relevant comparison.


The Arab is probably as bad in he feels like his home was taken from him
by greedy Jews backed by the evil USA & UK. How accurate is that? I can't
say but the Arab says they are victims and the Jews say they are the
victimizer.

By this time both sides have outraged the other so often that either can
make a case for exterminating the other.

But I've never heard Jews call for Arab extermination.


Well, there are always the facts. It trips up some people.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com