For years I've noticed that yachts for sale which are
in very good shape are often described as being in
"Bristol" condition. Why "Bristol?"

Does the English city of Bristol have some significance
in yachting with implications of a vessel's being in
first-class condition? If so, what's the story behind
that?



Geoff

--
"I imagine that anyone having a nooner with Madonna
would have to occasionally open the door to the
phone booth to let some fresh air in." -- Strayhorn

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 02:05:19 -0600, (Geoff Miller)
wrote:



For years I've noticed that yachts for sale which are
in very good shape are often described as being in
"Bristol" condition. Why "Bristol?"

Does the English city of Bristol have some significance
in yachting with implications of a vessel's being in
first-class condition? If so, what's the story behind
that?



Geoff

It is actually "Ship shape and Bristol fashion". there seem to be a
number of explanations for the term but it certainly has been in use
for more then a hundred years as it is mentioned in "Two Years Before
the Mast", printed in 1840. The meaning apparently has always meant in
top notch condition. (and I don't know where that term originated :-)

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 02:05:19 -0600, (Geoff Miller)
wrote:



For years I've noticed that yachts for sale which are
in very good shape are often described as being in
"Bristol" condition. Why "Bristol?"

Does the English city of Bristol have some significance
in yachting with implications of a vessel's being in
first-class condition? If so, what's the story behind
that?



Geoff


It is actually "Ship shape and Bristol fashion". there seem to be a
number of explanations for the term but it certainly has been in use
for more then a hundred years as it is mentioned in "Two Years Before
the Mast", printed in 1840. The meaning apparently has always meant in
top notch condition. (and I don't know where that term originated :-)

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/s...20fashion.html

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_b...sages/721.html

"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 02:05:19 -0600, (Geoff Miller)
wrote:



For years I've noticed that yachts for sale which are
in very good shape are often described as being in
"Bristol" condition. Why "Bristol?"

Does the English city of Bristol have some significance
in yachting with implications of a vessel's being in
first-class condition? If so, what's the story behind
that?



Geoff

It is actually "Ship shape and Bristol fashion". there seem to be a
number of explanations for the term but it certainly has been in use
for more then a hundred years as it is mentioned in "Two Years Before
the Mast", printed in 1840. The meaning apparently has always meant in
top notch condition. (and I don't know where that term originated :-)

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

"Two Years Before the Mast"
What a great book. Haven't heard the title mentioned in a long time.

"mmc" wrote in message
g.com...

It is actually "Ship shape and Bristol fashion". there seem to be a
number of explanations for the term but it certainly has been in use
for more then a hundred years as it is mentioned in "Two Years Before
the Mast", printed in 1840. The meaning apparently has always meant in
top notch condition. (and I don't know where that term originated :-)

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

"Two Years Before the Mast"
What a great book. Haven't heard the title mentioned in a long time.
I reread it earlier this year and it is a most interesting account of life
aboard ship around the 1830's and a good picture of Southern California in
those days..
Interesting how they went across to the west coast of USA and stayed there
for two years while they steadily filled the hold with hides, compressing
them down with levers until sometimes the pressure would lift a ships deck
up off its beams. I presume they were buffalo hides so no wonder there are
not so many of these animals left. I doubt there were enough people there
in those days to eat all the carcasses so they must have all been wasted.
And then there is the bit about a shipmate who fell off the ice covered
yardarms while running towards Cape Horn and they had no option but to sail
on while his cries faded away astern...
I wonder if it is still in print. My copy came from a s/h bookshop and was
inscribed as a Christmas present to someone in December 1900.

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:14:44 +0100, "Edgar"
wrote:


"mmc" wrote in message
ng.com...

It is actually "Ship shape and Bristol fashion". there seem to be a
number of explanations for the term but it certainly has been in use
for more then a hundred years as it is mentioned in "Two Years Before
the Mast", printed in 1840. The meaning apparently has always meant in
top notch condition. (and I don't know where that term originated :-)

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

"Two Years Before the Mast"
What a great book. Haven't heard the title mentioned in a long time.
I reread it earlier this year and it is a most interesting account of life
aboard ship around the 1830's and a good picture of Southern California in
those days..
Interesting how they went across to the west coast of USA and stayed there
for two years while they steadily filled the hold with hides, compressing
them down with levers until sometimes the pressure would lift a ships deck
up off its beams. I presume they were buffalo hides so no wonder there are
not so many of these animals left. I doubt there were enough people there
in those days to eat all the carcasses so they must have all been wasted.
And then there is the bit about a shipmate who fell off the ice covered
yardarms while running towards Cape Horn and they had no option but to sail
on while his cries faded away astern...
I wonder if it is still in print. My copy came from a s/h bookshop and was
inscribed as a Christmas present to someone in December 1900.


It's been years since I read the book but I have the idea that these
were cattle hides. Isn't there something in the book about being
anchored near some ranch and the ranch hands throwing dried hides down
a cliff so the crew could load them aboard?
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 07:12:56 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok
wrote:

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:14:44 +0100, "Edgar"
wrote:


"mmc" wrote in message
ing.com...

It is actually "Ship shape and Bristol fashion". there seem to be a
number of explanations for the term but it certainly has been in use
for more then a hundred years as it is mentioned in "Two Years Before
the Mast", printed in 1840. The meaning apparently has always meant in
top notch condition. (and I don't know where that term originated :-)

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

"Two Years Before the Mast"
What a great book. Haven't heard the title mentioned in a long time.
I reread it earlier this year and it is a most interesting account of life
aboard ship around the 1830's and a good picture of Southern California in
those days..
Interesting how they went across to the west coast of USA and stayed there
for two years while they steadily filled the hold with hides, compressing
them down with levers until sometimes the pressure would lift a ships deck
up off its beams. I presume they were buffalo hides so no wonder there are
not so many of these animals left. I doubt there were enough people there
in those days to eat all the carcasses so they must have all been wasted.
And then there is the bit about a shipmate who fell off the ice covered
yardarms while running towards Cape Horn and they had no option but to sail
on while his cries faded away astern...
I wonder if it is still in print. My copy came from a s/h bookshop and was
inscribed as a Christmas present to someone in December 1900.


It's been years since I read the book but I have the idea that these
were cattle hides. Isn't there something in the book about being
anchored near some ranch and the ranch hands throwing dried hides down
a cliff so the crew could load them aboard?
Cheers,

I believe you're correct. I think the buffalo were mostly wiped out
by "sportsmen" on shooting sprees.
If you keep American history in view as you read TYBTM, it becomes
more than a sea journal. For example the Alamo fell during Dana's
voyage. The Plains Indians were the lords of much west of the
Mississippi, St Joseph, Missouri was a trading post and the Pony
Express was years in the future. etc., etc.
I marveled more at the sea tale when I paused and put some of the
other history in place with Dana's world.
California was more remote to Americans than Europe was then.
Hey, maybe it still is! (-:

--Vic

"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:14:44 +0100, "Edgar"
wrote:
"Two Years Before the Mast"
What a great book. Haven't heard the title mentioned in a long time.
I reread it earlier this year and it is a most interesting account of life
aboard ship around the 1830's and a good picture of Southern California in
those days..
Interesting how they went across to the west coast of USA and stayed there
for two years while they steadily filled the hold with hides, compressing
them down with levers until sometimes the pressure would lift a ships deck
up off its beams. I presume they were buffalo hides so no wonder there are
not so many of these animals left. I doubt there were enough people there
in those days to eat all the carcasses so they must have all been wasted.
And then there is the bit about a shipmate who fell off the ice covered
yardarms while running towards Cape Horn and they had no option but to
sail
on while his cries faded away astern...
I wonder if it is still in print. My copy came from a s/h bookshop and was
inscribed as a Christmas present to someone in December 1900.


It's been years since I read the book but I have the idea that these
were cattle hides. Isn't there something in the book about being
anchored near some ranch and the ranch hands throwing dried hides down
a cliff so the crew could load them aboard?
Cheers,


I have dipped again into my book and think you may be right as when at San
Pedro loading hides it is mentioned that there is a large cattle ranch
somewhat inland. And yes they did throw them down a cliff and because the
rough stony beach quickly wore out their valuable shoes, they carried the
hides on their heads down to the ships boat while barefoot.
However he also says that the number of hides was becoming less as the years
progressed, which is not surprising since one single ship was loaded with no
less than forty thousand hides and a smaller ship carried only thirty
thousand.
I came across some gems too:-
"The Californians are an idle, thriftless people, and can make nothing for
themselves"
"San Diego (he told me) was a small snug place, having very little trade,
but decidedly the best harbour on the coast, being completely landlocked,
and the water as smooth as a duckpond"

I think it is time I reread the whole book.

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:14:44 +0100, "Edgar"
wrote:

"mmc" wrote in message
g.com...
It is actually "Ship shape and Bristol fashion". there seem to be a
number of explanations for the term but it certainly has been in use
for more then a hundred years as it is mentioned in "Two Years Before
the Mast", printed in 1840. The meaning apparently has always meant in
top notch condition. (and I don't know where that term originated :-)

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
"Two Years Before the Mast"
What a great book. Haven't heard the title mentioned in a long time.
I reread it earlier this year and it is a most interesting account of life
aboard ship around the 1830's and a good picture of Southern California in
those days..
Interesting how they went across to the west coast of USA and stayed there
for two years while they steadily filled the hold with hides, compressing
them down with levers until sometimes the pressure would lift a ships deck
up off its beams. I presume they were buffalo hides so no wonder there are
not so many of these animals left. I doubt there were enough people there
in those days to eat all the carcasses so they must have all been wasted.
And then there is the bit about a shipmate who fell off the ice covered
yardarms while running towards Cape Horn and they had no option but to sail
on while his cries faded away astern...
I wonder if it is still in print. My copy came from a s/h bookshop and was
inscribed as a Christmas present to someone in December 1900.


It's been years since I read the book but I have the idea that these
were cattle hides. Isn't there something in the book about being
anchored near some ranch and the ranch hands throwing dried hides down
a cliff so the crew could load them aboard?
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Way off topic here but some random thoughts.......

As I recall the Arch Duke Ferdinand, the guy that got shot to start WW1,
was famous for hiring a train for a "hunting" trip. He would run
through a wild region when the caribou or whatever were migrating and
shot himself silly, killing hundreds.

Munich has a hunting museum. They have a painting of some royal having
a "hunt" where they run hundreds of deer into a river to drown them.

In Newfoundland they have the spring seal hunt for pelts. Apparently
they just skin the animals on the ice and leave the carcass'. My Aunt
sometimes makes "flipper" but has to plan to get the meat. She has to
get someone from Gander to go up to Twillingate to get the meat when the
boats come in. Most don't bring any meat home. Not bad if it is cooked
right.

(Geoff Miller) wrote in
:

Does the English city of Bristol have some significance
in yachting with implications of a vessel's being in
first-class condition? If so, what's the story behind
that?



I read the references in the other answers. I doubt anyone in the yacht
sales business knows anything about Bristowe and the history behind the
use of it.

All they know is if you put Bristol in the ad, it sells better. That's
enough for them, even if it's a lie. Being a nebulous term with no real
meaning, it probably can't be used against them at the court hearing,
either.

Plaintiff - "He said it was in Bristol condition!"

Judge - "Bristol? What the hell does that mean??!"

See my point? Case dismissed.