Unconditionally stable sailboats
 

Jeff Morris wrote:
"Armond Perretta" wrote in
message ...
Unfortunately, the unconditionally stable position is with the
mast pointed down.

Monohulls are unconditionally stable when sitting on the bottom.

Why does it usually seem that this subject is argued on an
"either/or" basis.
There are advantages to either approach. Is this really
surprising to anyone here?


It was a joke, Armond. We gave up on rational discussion when Jax
entered.

I don't read the JAX Daily, but I still think my question was within the
realm of reasonable discussion. I sailed the '79 and '81 Multihull Race to
Bermuda in a Newick Native, and 1 or 2 Marion races in plastic and wooden
monohulls, and I had fun each and every time.

Along the way I never quite understood why proponents on either side
refused to "lighten up" and go with the flow. I would perhaps trade my 28
"get-the-lead-out" boat for an F-31 anytime, but I'm stuck in my ways and I
continue to insist that neither is "superior" beyond a reasonable doubt.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

Unconditionally stable sailboats
 

On 25 May 2004 15:02:36 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

you were obvilously waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over-served last night, steviee,
go sleep it off.

Please learn how to follow a thread.

that's what I said, steveie. while you were wandering about in some deluded
fog about rowboats crossing the ocean, the rest of the thread was talking
about
stupid statements made regarding the stability of cruising catamarans.

Sorry, you're wrong again. If you actually knew how to follow a thread
you could tell that I didn't bring up the part about rowboats. I just
responded to it. Now go back into your fog.

It definitely seems like the rehab you were on during your welcome
absense from the newsgroups didn't take. Time to try again.

Steve

Unconditionally stable sailboats
 

On 25 May 2004 11:22:46 GMT, something compelled
(JAXAshby), to say:

when a man is scarred to death of a boats, but doesn't wish to admit it for
fear of seeming unmanly, he will go to HUGE lengths to cover his tracks.

Like staying ashore and doing something else, like hiking or
mountain biking or sports cars or something? Why would someone
who "is scarred to death of a boats" own one at all?

The idea that a wife would prefer a cat over a monohull is
perfectly reasonable. Not only do they appear safer, they have
more interior space, two things a wife might appreciate. If it
was a choice between a catamaran or no boat at all, I can see
where a healthy marriage might compromise on the style of boat.

I wouldn't chose a catamaran for myself because they Just Don't
Look Like Boats to me. But were I dying for a boat, and my wife
could only get into it with a catamaran (if I had a wife, so far
I get to sail that which I like, or if not that, then that which
I can afford), I'd find it a reasonable compromise.

Unconditionally stable sailboats
 

Waste of time, Steve.
Rehab only works if the individual in question is interested in rehab.
Jax enjoys being a total, asshole, troll, with no other interest than a
vain attempt to show up others as being greater incompetents or fools
than himself.
You'll note that fewer and fewer individuals are responding to his
obvious "trolls", except to note that they are enjoying a good laugh at
his expense (though I doubt his IQ is sufficient to realize this).
You will note, that be it Jax's "Mayday" call or problems rounding
Hatteras, etc., our friend Jax was never the person in charge, but,
alas, only some "knowitall" deckhand who was great as a Monday night
quarterback, but of no other or worthwhile value at the time.
I fully expect to see a message from Jax saying "otn wrote []". To this
I say "Jax ALWAYS writes []".

otn


Steven Shelikoff wrote:
On 25 May 2004 15:02:36 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:


you were obvilously waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over-served last night, steviee,
go sleep it off.


Please learn how to follow a thread.

that's what I said, steveie. while you were wandering about in some deluded
fog about rowboats crossing the ocean, the rest of the thread was talking

about

stupid statements made regarding the stability of cruising catamarans.

Sorry, you're wrong again. If you actually knew how to follow a thread
you could tell that I didn't bring up the part about rowboats. I just
responded to it. Now go back into your fog.


It definitely seems like the rehab you were on during your welcome
absense from the newsgroups didn't take. Time to try again.

Steve

Unconditionally stable sailboats
 

You should try a cat sometime, jaxie, if you're not afraid of going too fast.

I have seen many, many, many cruising cats on different waters. none were
going *too* fast for me. In fact, most weren't going any kind of fast at all.

Now, Stilletos and tri's -- like Corsairs -- do indeed go fast, but no one
calls them cruising boats.

Cruising cats are only marginally faster than cruising mono's, and cats are not
safe in stormy seas. cruising cats are better suited for coastal cruising, and
offshore work thoroughly planned around weather.

cats can be tipped over by wind. cruising mono's can't.

Unconditionally stable sailboats
 

I would perhaps trade my 28
"get-the-lead-out" boat for an F-31 anytime,


an F-31 is a screamer, but in no way should be considered an offshore cruiser.

Unconditionally stable sailboats
 

you were obvilously waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over-served last night,
steviee,
go sleep it off.

Please learn how to follow a thread.

that's what I said, steveie. while you were wandering about in some
deluded
fog about rowboats crossing the ocean, the rest of the thread was talking
about
stupid statements made regarding the stability of cruising catamarans.

Sorry, you're wrong again. If you actually knew how to follow a thread
you could tell that I didn't bring up the part about rowboats. I just
responded to it. Now go back into your fog.

It definitely seems like the rehab you were on during your welcome
absense from the newsgroups didn't take. Time to try again.

Steve


you were obvilously waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over-served last night, steviee,
go sleep it off.

Unconditionally stable sailboats
 

You will note, that be it Jax's "Mayday" call or problems rounding
Hatteras, etc., our friend Jax was never the person in charge

In addition to sailing my own boat, I have done some crewing. I have never
seen any unusual trouble on my own boat, so have no stories to tell of them.
Most boats I crewed on were just fine, thank you. One I didn't crew on --
because I walked off it before it set sail -- sank two weeks later 160 miles
east of Hatteras.

Unconditionally stable sailboats
 

steve dan, you missed the irony of the statement. chickensquat guys blame "the
wife" for the fear, never taking responsibility for themself. that is where
you get all that convoluted b/s about how a catamaran is "unconditionally
stable".

by all means, if something frightens you don't do it. I have purposely turned
airplanes upside down in flight, but damned straight don't like to be on a
ladder 2-1/2 stories up in the air. I stay off ladders that high, and never
once blamed "the wife" for it.

Unconditionally stable sailboats
 

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
You should try a cat sometime, jaxie, if you're not afraid of going too fast.
....
Cruising cats are only marginally faster than cruising mono's,

Marginally? Perhaps - but its often a 25% margin. Sometimes 50%. If we're
talking "cruising boats" they tend to stay below about 8 knots, while I've been
above 12 knots a number of times.

and cats are not
safe in stormy seas.

How so? The record says otherwise.

cruising cats are better suited for coastal cruising, and
offshore work thoroughly planned around weather.

You can say that about lots of boats. The vast majority of mid-sized cruising
boats, both monos and cats, are designed as coastal cruisers because that's what
people actually do. That's what makes this argument particularly silly.

And if you really want a "blue water" catamaran you can get a Prout - 5000
built, hundreds circumnavigations, thousands of long distance passages, zero
capsizes.



cats can be tipped over by wind.

But, in fact, its only happened a few times to a modern cruising cat. I asked
you to provide a link to such an event - you provided a number of links, but
they were to the Iroquois, a small, 45 year old design that did indeed have
problems, several beach cats, and a Rout du Rhum extreme racing tri. We're
still waiting for you to prove your allegations.

Frankly, I've been searching for such events for about 10 years and the list is
pretty small. Most writers put the number at 3 or 4 in the last 20 years,
depending on how you define "modern cruising cat."


cruising mono's can't.

That isn't really so. But certainly any weather that has the capability to flip
a cat could also roll or sink a mono.