On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 13:03:58 GMT, "Janet O'Leary"
wrote:

Hello again; women haters, know it alls, never owned but
full of advice, and then there are the nuts/bolts/screws.. all loose..

And of course,, The Hubbard ... question; how many Hubbards are there?

This is your assignment ::

You have been given a Sabre 28. Model year 1976..

The boat is in ok shape... Hull sound, deck sound .. basic equipment ..

You have xxxx to spend.. think?? at least $15,000 ..

What equipment will you replace, add, get, .. etc ??

My list so far :: and remember, this comes from a Barnes and Noble book ..

Replace the standing and running rigging .. add two self tailing winches ..
upgrade the
anchor and anchor equipment .. sails .. furling for jib.. [ maybe, the
book says the
furling systems don't work the sail very well and a second smaller jib will
sail the boat better ]

What stuff would you EXPERTS get ..

The windvane steerer? Or electric stuff ?

what about engine upgrades ?/ batteries? solar/wind power ?

Isn't Barnes and Noble a bookseller? What is the author and title of
the book?

I wouldn't rush to make changes or upgrade stuff - except for things
that are obviously worn out or otherwise unusable. Use the boat for a
bit, then you will be in a better position to decide what upgrades
will make sense for your use of it.

If you put on roller furling, new sails, change the engine, etc, then
decide to sell the boat in a year, you'll never get even half your
money back.

Self-tailing winches are nice, but I sailed (single-handed) for many
years without them.

As others have said, wind vane steering is of little use in coastal
cruising, but if you will be single-handing, an autopilot would be a
very good investment.


--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

"Peter Bennett" wrote

As others have said, wind vane steering is of little use in coastal
cruising, but if you will be single-handing, an autopilot would be a
very good investment.


I use my Cape Horn windvane a great deal in coastal cruising around Maine.
I can't recommend it enough even for even near shore use. I have a small
electric autopilot that drives the windvane linkage when under power.

--
Roger Long

On Nov 29, 5:35 pm, Dave wrote:
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 13:55:53 -0800, Peter Bennett
said:

an autopilot would be a
very good investment.

Or even a very good expense.

(Just pointing out peoples' tendency to call things of which they approve
"investments" and things they think unnecessary "expenses.")

If the standing rigging has never been replaced, REPLACE IT even if it
looks OK. I thought mine was ok when it was20 yrs old until someone
convinced me to really look at it with a magnifying glass and I was
shocked to find ALL the lower fittings had miniscule cracks.
Replacement will only cost about $2000, maybe $2500. Running rigging
is cheap.
If the furling system is still good then keep it, otherwise go with a
CDI system because you can install it yourself. Roller furlers really
will make you sail more than you otherwise would, I wish I'd got one
years before I finally did.
Replace the lifelines too
Electronic autopilot. Forget all the stupid NMEA BS and interfacing
to charts. Get the simplest one with the most force.
Why self tailing? I have a 28' and have never really needed it and I
sail single handed.
Get Lazy Jacks or similar because it will really make life easier and
your spouse less crabby when she/he is at the tiller and the sail is
dropped.
A new high capacity bilge pump.
Some good used sails
A dinghy (I prefer the non-inflatables but you choose)
A new VHF AND a handheld VHF
AUTO-inflate lifejackets.
EPIRB
This should be well under $10,000.
I bet the old engine is ok but needs some work. It is probably an old
Atomic 4, a great gas engine that will run forever and is very
simple. You may need to replace your fuel tank though. Get a CO
detector if it is a gas engine.

Here is my reasoning on going less expensive. This is an older boat
and you seem to want to cruise cheap. This means that you will not
want to be spending time in $80/night slips or be paying $400/month
for a slip. You need to keep her in a place that is a little less
safe but much cheaper, maybe even on anchor in a slough somewhere.for
free. If something happens to her, you do not want it to be a
financial disaster for you. You want to be able to shrug your
shoulders and say "Oh well, it was interesting but wont be a real
hardship of a loss".
Lots of new SOLAS flares.

Frogwatch wrote:
If the standing rigging has never been replaced, REPLACE IT even if it
looks OK.

Many older boats have had the rigging replaced and the "new" owner has
no way of knowing. Replace it again anyway? Doesn't make sense to me.

... *I thought mine was ok when it was20 yrs old until someone
convinced me to really look at it with a magnifying glass and I was
shocked to find ALL the lower fittings had miniscule cracks.

Bingo, a proper inspection is the key to determine if you need to
replace standing rigging. A surveyor will do this, if there's the
slightest question a dye test will show the condition of the terminals
(most likely weak point). Much cheaper & quicker than "replace it
anyway."


..... *Running rigging
is cheap.

OTOH *good* running rigging is not cheap.
For systems that are critical to handling the boat properly, it's
worth it.



If the furling system is still good then keep it, otherwise go with a
CDI system because you can install it yourself. *Roller furlers really
will make you sail more than you otherwise would, I wish I'd got one
years before I finally did.

Yep

Replace the lifelines too

Now there, I agree. Minor costs & hassle... and BTW lifelines should
be replaced with a low-stretch hi-UV-resistant line, not wire. And
*definitely* not plastic covered wire. That stuff is dangerous for
lifelines, even though it's almost universal on older cruisers & racer-
cruisers.





Why self tailing? *I have a 28' and have never really needed it and I
sail single handed.

Yabut self-tailers are worth it too. When you get them, just like
roller-furling you'll wish you'd gotten them sooner


A new high capacity bilge pump.

Good advice there.... doesn't need to be brand-new, but needs to work
like new

The funny thing is, how much of this good advice from several posters
here is actually going to be put any use? I wonder!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

wrote

BTW lifelines should
be replaced with a low-stretch hi-UV-resistant line, not wire. And
*definitely* not plastic covered wire. That stuff is dangerous for
lifelines, even though it's almost universal on older cruisers & racer-
cruisers.

Agreed on the plastic coated line but I replaced mine with plain rigging
wire and have been very happy with the result. They look great and I've
never been aware of any objectionable feel or chafe. The line will need to
be replaced more often and chafe may not be as evident. Wire is also
stronger and the terminals neater.

I did dispense with turnbuckles at the forward ends and use eyes with nylon
lashings. These work fine, stay tight all season, and do not chafe the foot
of the headsails.

--
Roger Long

On Nov 30, 12:22 pm, "Roger Long" wrote:
wrote

BTW lifelines should
be replaced with a low-stretch hi-UV-resistant line, not wire. And
*definitely* not plastic covered wire. That stuff is dangerous for
lifelines, even though it's almost universal on older cruisers & racer-
cruisers.

Agreed on the plastic coated line but I replaced mine with plain rigging
wire and have been very happy with the result. They look great and I've
never been aware of any objectionable feel or chafe. The line will need to
be replaced more often and chafe may not be as evident. Wire is also
stronger and the terminals neater.

I did dispense with turnbuckles at the forward ends and use eyes with nylon
lashings. These work fine, stay tight all season, and do not chafe the foot
of the headsails.

--
Roger Long

I also like my new spreader level light that illuminates the foredeck
when adjusting the anchor at night. Was money well spent and
reasonably cheap.
A simple Davis radar reflector that is very cheap (learn how to use
it).
A good Man overboard system.
Some cheap strobes that attach to life jackets

On Nov 30, 4:29 pm, Frogwatch wrote:
On Nov 30, 12:22 pm, "Roger Long" wrote:



wrote

BTW lifelines should
be replaced with a low-stretch hi-UV-resistant line, not wire. And
*definitely* not plastic covered wire. That stuff is dangerous for
lifelines, even though it's almost universal on older cruisers & racer-
cruisers.

Agreed on the plastic coated line but I replaced mine with plain rigging
wire and have been very happy with the result. They look great and I've
never been aware of any objectionable feel or chafe. The line will need to
be replaced more often and chafe may not be as evident. Wire is also
stronger and the terminals neater.

I did dispense with turnbuckles at the forward ends and use eyes with nylon
lashings. These work fine, stay tight all season, and do not chafe the foot
of the headsails.

--
Roger Long

I also like my new spreader level light that illuminates the foredeck
when adjusting the anchor at night. Was money well spent and
reasonably cheap.
A simple Davis radar reflector that is very cheap (learn how to use
it).
A good Man overboard system.
Some cheap strobes that attach to life jackets

Also you may need to replace the compass because the old one is
probably unreadable.
Also buy an easy to use non-electronic hand bearing compass (less than
$30).
A Knotstik, which is a device where you drop a drag over the side and
it has a calibrated spring so you can measure your speed. With this
and your compass, you can do DR navigation with NO electricity at all.
In hot weather, ventilation is necessary so get more somehow. Get
some good fans.
A bimini will save your skin and even a cheap one is worthwhile.
Have your old thru-hull fittings checked.
A small solar battery charger is worthwhile.

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 08:25:23 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Frogwatch wrote:


Replace the lifelines too

Now there, I agree. Minor costs & hassle... and BTW lifelines should
be replaced with a low-stretch hi-UV-resistant line, not wire. And
*definitely* not plastic covered wire. That stuff is dangerous for
lifelines, even though it's almost universal on older cruisers & racer-
cruisers.



Fresh Breezes- Doug King

STRONGLY disagree about non-metal lifelines. Far too easy to damage.
You (or someone else) may nick one without ever even realizing it
until you fall against the line and it parts.

If you want something more comfortable than bare stainless wire, there
are split covers that can be removed for inspection, as well as clear
plastic covers.

wrote:
STRONGLY disagree about non-metal lifelines. Far too easy to damage.
You (or someone else) may nick one without ever even realizing it

Only if you're the kind of dumbass that wanders around waving a
samurai sword carelessly.

First of all, the kind of line that one would use does not "nick"
easily.

2nd a "nick" would not cost it much strength and it has plenty to
spare.

3rd that's what every single Cat 1 offshore racer has used for the
past 15 years. I haven't seen bare wire lifelines on anything lately.
The cheapo cruisers are still using plastic covered wire and everybody
else is using Dyneema or a variant.


If you want something more comfortable than bare stainless wire, there
are split covers that can be removed for inspection, as well as clear
plastic covers.

Might be a good option if you are in the "stick or rock" technology
bracket. But it's not approved for Cat 1 or Cat 0 offshore use. Does
that tell you anything?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 15:46:53 -0800 (PST), wrote:

wrote:
STRONGLY disagree about non-metal lifelines. Far too easy to damage.
You (or someone else) may nick one without ever even realizing it

Only if you're the kind of dumbass that wanders around waving a
samurai sword carelessly.


I have no idea if that's what you do, but you are certainly a dumbass.
The rest of your post proves it conclusively.

First of all, the kind of line that one would use does not "nick"
easily.

2nd a "nick" would not cost it much strength and it has plenty to
spare.

3rd that's what every single Cat 1 offshore racer has used for the
past 15 years. I haven't seen bare wire lifelines on anything lately.
The cheapo cruisers are still using plastic covered wire and everybody
else is using Dyneema or a variant.


Sailboat cruising and offshore sailboat racing are entirely different
endeavors with different requirements. You do neither. That may
explain why your opinions are based on magazine articles.



If you want something more comfortable than bare stainless wire, there
are split covers that can be removed for inspection, as well as clear
plastic covers.

Might be a good option if you are in the "stick or rock" technology
bracket. But it's not approved for Cat 1 or Cat 0 offshore use. Does
that tell you anything?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King