Hi All,
I have a 16' beach cat and the halyards are a source of bother for me. Like
most of the beach cats Ive owned the method of tensioning the halyards is
less than ideal. There are of course no winches. The only thing there is,
is 2 horn cleats; one for main and one for jib.

Its not so bad on this cat since there is a mast top halyard lock for the
main, then luff tension is adjusted by downhall, but for the jib it's
another story. It is very hard to get enough tension on that jib halyard, I
try the usual method of putting a half turn around the horn clean then
pulling out on the halyard (above the cleat) while trying to retension the
tail. By this method i can bootstrap my way to some reasonable tension, but
if the wind is blowing hard it's only a matter of time till that horn cleat
slacks off a little. It really doesnt take much loss in tension to have the
jib luff up there flapping in the wind.

How do people solve this problem generally? Whats the best method to get
some purchase up here so i can retension while on the water? i was thinking
maybe 4:1 or better yet 8:1, but hopefully something simple and lockable....
maybe with a cam cleat rather than a horn cleat?

Thanks,
Shaun

You might want to try a thicker halyard, if the difficulties
tensioning or cleating it come from it being too thin.
It shouldn't really slip on the cleat; if it is stretching, try less
stretchy fibers.

Much more than the tension you can build up using the manual method
you described I think could easily overload a beach cat rig.

(You are gripping the halyard far enough from the cleat, ~ 2 ft above
it, when you pull sideways, are you?)



On Nov 18, 1:54 pm, "Shaun Van Poecke"
wrote:
Hi All,
I have a 16' beach cat and the halyards are a source of bother for me. Like
most of the beach cats Ive owned the method of tensioning the halyards is
less than ideal. There are of course no winches. The only thing there is,
is 2 horn cleats; one for main and one for jib.

Its not so bad on this cat since there is a mast top halyard lock for the
main, then luff tension is adjusted by downhall, but for the jib it's
another story. It is very hard to get enough tension on that jib halyard, I
try the usual method of putting a half turn around the horn clean then
pulling out on the halyard (above the cleat) while trying to retension the
tail. By this method i can bootstrap my way to some reasonable tension, but
if the wind is blowing hard it's only a matter of time till that horn cleat
slacks off a little. It really doesnt take much loss in tension to have the
jib luff up there flapping in the wind.

How do people solve this problem generally? Whats the best method to get
some purchase up here so i can retension while on the water? i was thinking
maybe 4:1 or better yet 8:1, but hopefully something simple and lockable....
maybe with a cam cleat rather than a horn cleat?

Thanks,
Shaun

What I did on a G cat we got was to cut the halyard about 2 feet above the
cleat when the sail is raised and tie the resulting cut ends to opposite
ends of a becket block.. After raising the sail, loop the halyard under the
cleat (or you could mount a cheek block below the cleat to thread the
halyard thru) back up thru the becket block and now you have 3:1 purchase,
less friction. Cleat the halyard and you are done. This also reduces the
loose halyard tail.
Fine tuning details: The location of the becket block will restrict how far
down the halyard shackel will go, so depending on how low you want the head
of the sail to be when lowered, you can adjust the cut. Having the "cut"
higher will "waste" more halyard tail when the sail is raised.
If the tail doesn't have to be threaded thru the lower turning "block" you
can leave the tail permanently threaded thru the becket block. When the sail
is raised, just pull some slack from the loop, and hook it under the cleat
or whatever.
I think Herreshoff used this system a lot.
I hope I've made this clear enough.

"Shaun Van Poecke" wrote in message
...
Hi All,
I have a 16' beach cat and the halyards are a source of bother for me.
Like most of the beach cats Ive owned the method of tensioning the
halyards is less than ideal. There are of course no winches. The only
thing there is, is 2 horn cleats; one for main and one for jib.

Its not so bad on this cat since there is a mast top halyard lock for the
main, then luff tension is adjusted by downhall, but for the jib it's
another story. It is very hard to get enough tension on that jib halyard,
I try the usual method of putting a half turn around the horn clean then
pulling out on the halyard (above the cleat) while trying to retension the
tail. By this method i can bootstrap my way to some reasonable tension,
but if the wind is blowing hard it's only a matter of time till that horn
cleat slacks off a little. It really doesnt take much loss in tension to
have the jib luff up there flapping in the wind.

How do people solve this problem generally? Whats the best method to get
some purchase up here so i can retension while on the water? i was
thinking maybe 4:1 or better yet 8:1, but hopefully something simple and
lockable.... maybe with a cam cleat rather than a horn cleat?

Thanks,
Shaun

I know it's not realy nautical but on my 17' siren I used to Make a
truckers hitch up above the cleat then a turn around the cleat and tie
it off that way

Hi All,
I have a 16' beach cat and the halyards are a source of bother for me. Like
most of the beach cats Ive owned the method of tensioning the halyards is
less than ideal. There are of course no winches. The only thing there is,
is 2 horn cleats; one for main and one for jib.

Its not so bad on this cat since there is a mast top halyard lock for the
main, then luff tension is adjusted by downhall, but for the jib it's
another story. It is very hard to get enough tension on that jib halyard, I
try the usual method of putting a half turn around the horn clean then
pulling out on the halyard (above the cleat) while trying to retension the
tail. By this method i can bootstrap my way to some reasonable tension, but
if the wind is blowing hard it's only a matter of time till that horn cleat
slacks off a little. It really doesnt take much loss in tension to have the
jib luff up there flapping in the wind.

How do people solve this problem generally? Whats the best method to get
some purchase up here so i can retension while on the water? i was thinking
maybe 4:1 or better yet 8:1, but hopefully something simple and lockable....
maybe with a cam cleat rather than a horn cleat?

Thanks,
Shaun

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 03:57:01 GMT, (Drew
Dalgleish) wrote:

I know it's not realy nautical but on my 17' siren I used to Make a
truckers hitch up above the cleat then a turn around the cleat and tie
it off that way

Hi All,
I have a 16' beach cat and the halyards are a source of bother for me. Like
most of the beach cats Ive owned the method of tensioning the halyards is
less than ideal. There are of course no winches. The only thing there is,
is 2 horn cleats; one for main and one for jib.

Its not so bad on this cat since there is a mast top halyard lock for the
main, then luff tension is adjusted by downhall, but for the jib it's
another story. It is very hard to get enough tension on that jib halyard, I
try the usual method of putting a half turn around the horn clean then
pulling out on the halyard (above the cleat) while trying to retension the
tail. By this method i can bootstrap my way to some reasonable tension, but
if the wind is blowing hard it's only a matter of time till that horn cleat
slacks off a little. It really doesnt take much loss in tension to have the
jib luff up there flapping in the wind.

How do people solve this problem generally? Whats the best method to get
some purchase up here so i can retension while on the water? i was thinking
maybe 4:1 or better yet 8:1, but hopefully something simple and lockable....
maybe with a cam cleat rather than a horn cleat?

Thanks,
Shaun


What are you using for halyard material? If it is not one of the new
non stretch synthetics then that is your problem.

Just guessing but your sail can't be much more then 15 or 16 feet on
the luff and with a single part line and the light material your sails
are made out of you ought to be able to pull enough tension in the
luff to almost tear the sail.

Another point (and I don't remember how that cat is rigged) is what
are you tensioning the jib against. I don't believe there is a back
stay and if all you have is shrouds that are angled back you can
probably pull some bend into the mast with the jib halyard.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:48:47 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:


I have a 16' beach cat and the halyards are a source of bother for me.


Just guessing but your sail can't be much more then 15 or 16 feet on
the luff
///
Bruce-in-Bangkok

I picked up a good 24 foot mast from a 16 ft Hobie cat. It's
surprizing. Big top pulley with stainless halliard spliced to
synthetic.

Brian Whatrcott Altus OK

This sounds pretty good and usable,
thumbing through some catalogues lately I was having a look at some
different vang systems, you know the type where there is a larger and
smaller pulley inline with each other rather than side by side. Some of
these have an integral V cleat too, and they arent madly expensive. I could
pretty easily get some good purchase this way, and have maybe just a quick
lock shackle to tie it in to the tail of tha halyard. While it is nice to
have all that extra purchase (especially for my partner who is smallish) the
big advantage for me is being able to tweak a little when on the water. We
sail on a lake, and sometimes you just need that extra inch of tension on
that halyard. With the current horn cleat around the front of the mast
setup, you really have to come back in to sure to do it - there is little
hope of fighting against a wind to get tension on it from behind the mast.

I'll probably leave the main halyard as it is. Was also thinking of
changing my jib sheet system over to 2:1 as well... does this make any
problems? Just having a block at the clew, rope tied to the same point that
the cleat is, then up to the clew and back down to the cleat. Again, this
is mostly for my partner who sometimes struggles with the jib sheet.

"Garland Gray II" wrote in message
...
What I did on a G cat we got was to cut the halyard about 2 feet above the
cleat when the sail is raised and tie the resulting cut ends to opposite
ends of a becket block.. After raising the sail, loop the halyard under
the cleat (or you could mount a cheek block below the cleat to thread the
halyard thru) back up thru the becket block and now you have 3:1 purchase,
less friction. Cleat the halyard and you are done. This also reduces the
loose halyard tail.
Fine tuning details: The location of the becket block will restrict how
far down the halyard shackel will go, so depending on how low you want the
head of the sail to be when lowered, you can adjust the cut. Having the
"cut" higher will "waste" more halyard tail when the sail is raised.
If the tail doesn't have to be threaded thru the lower turning "block" you
can leave the tail permanently threaded thru the becket block. When the
sail is raised, just pull some slack from the loop, and hook it under the
cleat or whatever.
I think Herreshoff used this system a lot.
I hope I've made this clear enough.

"Shaun Van Poecke" wrote in message
...
Hi All,
I have a 16' beach cat and the halyards are a source of bother for me.
Like most of the beach cats Ive owned the method of tensioning the
halyards is less than ideal. There are of course no winches. The only
thing there is, is 2 horn cleats; one for main and one for jib.

Its not so bad on this cat since there is a mast top halyard lock for the
main, then luff tension is adjusted by downhall, but for the jib it's
another story. It is very hard to get enough tension on that jib
halyard, I try the usual method of putting a half turn around the horn
clean then pulling out on the halyard (above the cleat) while trying to
retension the tail. By this method i can bootstrap my way to some
reasonable tension, but if the wind is blowing hard it's only a matter of
time till that horn cleat slacks off a little. It really doesnt take
much loss in tension to have the jib luff up there flapping in the wind.

How do people solve this problem generally? Whats the best method to get
some purchase up here so i can retension while on the water? i was
thinking maybe 4:1 or better yet 8:1, but hopefully something simple and
lockable.... maybe with a cam cleat rather than a horn cleat?

Thanks,
Shaun

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:53:26 GMT, "Shaun Van Poecke"
wrote:

This sounds pretty good and usable,
thumbing through some catalogues lately I was having a look at some
different vang systems, you know the type where there is a larger and
smaller pulley inline with each other rather than side by side. Some of
these have an integral V cleat too, and they arent madly expensive. I could
pretty easily get some good purchase this way, and have maybe just a quick
lock shackle to tie it in to the tail of tha halyard. While it is nice to
have all that extra purchase (especially for my partner who is smallish) the
big advantage for me is being able to tweak a little when on the water. We
sail on a lake, and sometimes you just need that extra inch of tension on
that halyard. With the current horn cleat around the front of the mast
setup, you really have to come back in to sure to do it - there is little
hope of fighting against a wind to get tension on it from behind the mast.

I'll probably leave the main halyard as it is. Was also thinking of
changing my jib sheet system over to 2:1 as well... does this make any
problems? Just having a block at the clew, rope tied to the same point that
the cleat is, then up to the clew and back down to the cleat. Again, this
is mostly for my partner who sometimes struggles with the jib sheet.

That is the way they used to do it, back in the good old days before
sheet winches. Just means you need handle twice as much rope is all.

Or get a stronger partner =:-)
Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

"Shaun Van Poecke" wrote in message
...
Hi All,
I have a 16' beach cat and the halyards are a source of bother for me.
Like most of the beach cats Ive owned the method of tensioning the
halyards is less than ideal. There are of course no winches. The only
thing there is, is 2 horn cleats; one for main and one for jib.

Its not so bad on this cat since there is a mast top halyard lock for the
main, then luff tension is adjusted by downhall, but for the jib it's
another story. It is very hard to get enough tension on that jib halyard,
I try the usual method of putting a half turn around the horn clean then
pulling out on the halyard (above the cleat) while trying to retension the
tail. By this method i can bootstrap my way to some reasonable tension,
but if the wind is blowing hard it's only a matter of time till that horn
cleat slacks off a little. It really doesnt take much loss in tension to
have the jib luff up there flapping in the wind.

How do people solve this problem generally? Whats the best method to get
some purchase up here so i can retension while on the water? i was
thinking maybe 4:1 or better yet 8:1, but hopefully something simple and
lockable.... maybe with a cam cleat rather than a horn cleat?

Thanks,
Shaun

I've fitted a highfield lever to both my dinghies. These make it very easy
to adjust the tension. I do have wire halyards for the jib/genoa though.

Regards,

Laurie.




-----------------
www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed*
Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
-----------------

""Schöön Martin"" wrote in message
...
"Shaun Van Poecke" writes:

Hi All,
I have a 16' beach cat and the halyards are a source of bother for me.
Like
snip
another story. It is very hard to get enough tension on that jib
halyard, I
try the usual method of putting a half turn around the horn clean then
pulling out on the halyard (above the cleat) while trying to retension
the
tail. By this method i can bootstrap my way to some reasonable tension,
but
if the wind is blowing hard it's only a matter of time till that horn
cleat
slacks off a little. It really doesnt take much loss in tension to have
the
jib luff up there flapping in the wind.

This sounds more like your lines are relatives to the ones on
my parents old 5 m monohull. Those halyards were 'rubber bands'.

On my 8 m cat I use the method you describe without issues.
Today I use a very good 8mm Dyneema line. Before that I used a
6 mm Dyneema line which worked pretty well to but the stiffer
8 mm line is definitely better. (Diameters include cover)

What type of line do you use?

Here is my boat:
http://hem.bredband.net/b262106/

--
Martin Schöön

"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back"
Piet Hein