On Mar 10, 11:41�pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On 10 Mar 2007 17:08:01 -0800, "Chuck Gould"

wrote:
One of the major reasons I used the Rolls 8D, (aside from a 10 year
warranty wiht the first 7 not pro-rated) is that they are so super
easy to install and replace.

Rolls makes a great battery, no question. *On the other hand the cost
of a Rolls 8D is somewhere north of $500 if my memory is correct. *I
recently purchased a brand X 8D from NAPA auto parts for $160.
Assuming I get the usual 5 years from it, I'll be money ahead.

If you get five years from a bargain basement battery you're doing
really well.

Rolls pencils out if you figure the more typical three years from a
generic battery. If you pay somebody to replace the battery for you,
or if you value the
time involved or put any value on avoiding the risk of physical injury
associated with "horsing" 150 pounds in what always turns out to be an
incorrect posture, the Rolls puts you money ahead. The warranty on
Rolls is 10 years, (vs 24-36 months for most Brand X), and life
expectancy is often several years beyond the end of the warranty.

The other spiffy thing about the Rolls is that when most batteries
fail it's a failure in a single cell. With most batteries, you have to
junk all six cells bcause one has gone bad. With a Rolls, you simply
test the cells until you find the bad one, unbolt the bad cell from
the network, buy one new cell instead of six new cells, and forge
ahead.

On 11 Mar 2007 16:31:08 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

If you get five years from a bargain basement battery you're doing
really well.

Depends how you use it. In this particular case it is a starting
battery for my generators and also powers the anchor windlass. I'll
be very disappointed if it doesn't go at least 5 years in light duty
service like that, assuming I keep the cells watered properly.

Rolls pencils out if you figure the more typical three years from a
generic battery. If you pay somebody to replace the battery for you,
or if you value the
time involved or put any value on avoiding the risk of physical injury
associated with "horsing" 150 pounds in what always turns out to be an
incorrect posture, the Rolls puts you money ahead. The warranty on
Rolls is 10 years, (vs 24-36 months for most Brand X), and life
expectancy is often several years beyond the end of the warranty.

The other spiffy thing about the Rolls is that when most batteries
fail it's a failure in a single cell. With most batteries, you have to
junk all six cells bcause one has gone bad. With a Rolls, you simply
test the cells until you find the bad one, unbolt the bad cell from
the network, buy one new cell instead of six new cells, and forge
ahead.

All true, Rolls are great batteries, certainly among the best.

Brand-X from NAPA has one more advantage however - the NAPA store is
10 minutes from my house and the closest Rolls dealers are 2 1/2 hours
away in Lauderdale or Miami.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On 11 Mar 2007 16:31:08 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

If you get five years from a bargain basement battery you're doing
really well.

Depends how you use it. In this particular case it is a starting
battery for my generators and also powers the anchor windlass. I'll
be very disappointed if it doesn't go at least 5 years in light duty
service like that, assuming I keep the cells watered properly.

Rolls pencils out if you figure the more typical three years from a
generic battery. If you pay somebody to replace the battery for you,
or if you value the
time involved or put any value on avoiding the risk of physical injury
associated with "horsing" 150 pounds in what always turns out to be an
incorrect posture, the Rolls puts you money ahead. The warranty on
Rolls is 10 years, (vs 24-36 months for most Brand X), and life
expectancy is often several years beyond the end of the warranty.

The other spiffy thing about the Rolls is that when most batteries
fail it's a failure in a single cell. With most batteries, you have to
junk all six cells bcause one has gone bad. With a Rolls, you simply
test the cells until you find the bad one, unbolt the bad cell from
the network, buy one new cell instead of six new cells, and forge
ahead.

All true, Rolls are great batteries, certainly among the best.

Brand-X from NAPA has one more advantage however - the NAPA store is
10 minutes from my house and the closest Rolls dealers are 2 1/2 hours
away in Lauderdale or Miami.


How close is NAPA to that nice remote anchorage where the cheapy battery
fails? ;-)

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:15:14 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:

How close is NAPA to that nice remote anchorage where the cheapy battery
fails? ;-)

My boat has so much redundancy in critical systems that replacement
parts in a remote anchorage are an unlikely scenario. This particular
8D can be parallelled with a bank of 4 golf cart batts, which in turn
can be parallelled with with either a second set of golf carts or an
engine starting 8D.

We had the raw water pump fail on our primary generator last year mid
way through a cruise of the Abaco out islands. After spending a
futile couple of hours trying to locate a new one, we continued on
using the backup generator. If both generators fail I can now
generate enough 12 volt amperage with the main engine alternators to
power a 2 KW inverter. That's enough to keep the holding plate
fridges and freezer cold, or do some light duty cooking. It would be
an act of hubris to rename the boat the M/V Unstoppable but it comes
as close as I know to make it.

You've clearly thought this through. Would that I have room for so much
battery storage. :-)

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:15:14 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:

How close is NAPA to that nice remote anchorage where the cheapy battery
fails? ;-)

My boat has so much redundancy in critical systems that replacement
parts in a remote anchorage are an unlikely scenario. This particular
8D can be parallelled with a bank of 4 golf cart batts, which in turn
can be parallelled with with either a second set of golf carts or an
engine starting 8D.

We had the raw water pump fail on our primary generator last year mid
way through a cruise of the Abaco out islands. After spending a
futile couple of hours trying to locate a new one, we continued on
using the backup generator. If both generators fail I can now
generate enough 12 volt amperage with the main engine alternators to
power a 2 KW inverter. That's enough to keep the holding plate
fridges and freezer cold, or do some light duty cooking. It would be
an act of hubris to rename the boat the M/V Unstoppable but it comes
as close as I know to make it.

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 19:25:49 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:

You've clearly thought this through. Would that I have room for so much
battery storage. :-)

Yeah, they're big and they're heavy, but compared to a couple of
Detroit 671s, a 15 and 20 KW generator, 1000 gallons of fuel and 500
gallons of water - it's a drop in the bucket.

"Chuck Gould" wrote in
ups.com:

associated with "horsing" 150 pounds in what always turns out to be an
incorrect posture

150 pounds? Oh, you're swapping out our STARTING battery....sorry

Larry
--
How much price inflation is caused by illegal
aliens gobbling up goods and services, creating
shortages for the natives? I heard 40%!

On Mar 11, 9:35�pm, Larry wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote groups.com:

associated with "horsing" 150 pounds in what always turns out to be an
incorrect posture

150 pounds? *Oh, you're swapping out our STARTING battery....sorry

Larry
--


Actually, you're right if you're being sarcastic- I was shooting from
the hip on the weight and I was light by some 58 pounds. The actual
weight of a Rolls 8D is 208 pounds.

http://www.rollsbattery.com/


That's approximately 40 pounds heavier than a typical discount-store
battery of the same size (and most of the discount stores get their
batteries from the same manufacturers and simply get a private label
attached.) Your typical 8D is pretty close to the 150 I used as an off
the cuff example.


http://www.apexbattery.com/group-8d-...batteries.html


As you undoubtedly know, weight is a fairly reliable indicator of
quality and capacity in a lead-acid battery.


The Rolls (Surette in Canada) retails for aout 2 1/2 times the battery
linked above. The warranty is 10 times as long. On an amp/hour per
year of service basis, Rolls is probably the cheapest battery you can
buy- let alone the hassle of doing the swap out.

Well, I might as well get in here and throw a grenade.

I buy 5 @ 12V Wall Mart batteries that sell for $40 each and have an 8
year warranty. It is full replacement for 3 years and prorated after
that. They weigh about 40lbs each and are easy to move around.

Now, what if the one on the engine fails? Well, I have four more on
the house bank and any one of those can replace the engine battery
with a flip of a switch. Suppose I get 5 years before a failure
(typically thats what I get) and the proration has clicked in. Wall
mart is a short walk from almost any pier or at the least a short cab
ride if you cant bum a car from another boater. The price of the
replacement after proration is about $20 and you have a 40 pound
battery that you can easily replace yourself...I am 70 years old so I
know the young whipper snappers can.

Now, I can replace all 5 of them every 5 years and I will have only
invested $300 over a ten year time span. I will have invested only
twice as much time in replacement labor than the one time replacement
labor of the Rolls. Thats about 3 hours time. Thus I was paid
roughly $1200 for three hours labor (assuming that you need TWO Rolls
bats, one for engine and one for house). I would not run on one
battery no mater HOW reliable it is.

"jim.isbell" wrote in news:1173720620.931062.26890
@8g2000cwh.googlegroups.com:

Thus I was paid
roughly $1200 for three hours labor

Mr Jim I LOVE your math lesson.....(c;

I buy all my TIRES from WalMart for the same reason. Every Walmart is
interconnected by satellite to every other WalMart. If I blow a tire 800
miles from home, I go to the nearest WalMart and they give me a new one
(Lifetime Warranty for another $10/tire). Noone hassles me. Noone says
just because they are a Michelin dealer doesn't mean they have to honor
tire warranty some other dealer sold me.

Nearly dead center in the middle of the tread, I had a nail making a
WalMart Goodyear leak that was a couple years old. I took it to WalMart.
The guy dismounted the tire and consulted with the shop manager as to
what to do. The shop manager showed me the nail, dead center in the
tread.....of a half-worn-out Goodyear.

"Doesn't that look awfully close to the sidewall, to you, requiring me to
replace that tire?", he asked me. "Oh, yes! I can see it cuts right
into the sidewall! We can't plug it when it's that close." His mechanic
was already mounting my new tire to the rim. I'll always buy from
WalMart. Besides the same tire being cheaper, I get great service 800
miles from home from the SAME tire store...WalMart. I don't even need my
warranty. I'm on every computer terminal on the planet!

Larry
--