On 7 May 2004 22:44:20 -0700,
(peterMelbourneAustralia) wrote something:
.....and I say in return....

If this is a repost, sorry. I tried posting before but seem to have
disappeared.

I have built and mucked around with and in boats for years. Glass,
wood, aluminium (bought not built).

I would seriously be looking at a tinnie.

My FIL has had one, 14ft (Doggett??) with a 20HP outboard on it for as
many years as I can remember (ooohhh at least 3....no.. G more like
15 years+). He wore a tiny hole (which he originally patched with
sisal and bondcrete!) in it from a badly built trailer, washes it down
after each fishing trip, and has otherwise never touched it. He used
it at least once a week on average, and now he is retired, even more.
He has been through 2 secondhand motors, reasonably cared for.

I have been out with him in Perth's water in a nasty chop, with three
hefty people, and fishing, crabbing and water aboard, and while it
bumps around a lot at speed, it is a very seaworthy little boat.

I did some looking around. A Brooker 4.5m (14ft) boat has a beam of
1.95 and a depth of 1m. That's a lot of "14ft" boat. It weighs a lot
more than the Trover, but IMO would be dryer, more stable and hold a
lot more. That Trover with 450Kg in it would be _loaded_. I would
compare the Trover to the 3.8 or 4.1 size tinnies, and they weigh
about the same.

My point is that alum boats are very light per capacity and very
strong and low mtce.

If (and I sympathise if not) you or anyone in your family can sell
_anything_, you would always get your money back on the hull, at sale
time.

The Trover is semi-flat-bottomed (you said you don't want a flat
bottom) and pram-bowed. It waould also not be the simplest design,
although simple. The guy who designs these designs some beautiful
boats....from a pride, building and boaties point of view. I do not
see them as dead simplest, not even the Trover.

Cost the build _very_ carefully. The Trover would need; 5 (?) sheets
of ply, $400, glue $150, timber $150, paint $150

I see 12-14ft tinnies on the market with 9hp outboard for $1500. I
would worry a lot more about the motor than the boat!

..... and IME, a boat rushed is a boat regretted.


My fahter, 72, is finding his 12ft fiberglass boat to heavy to launch
by himself and needs a lighter boat.

The present boat has a 5hp outboard, solidly built, seaworth and has a
deep keel, unfortunately it is also a little heavy.

Was thinking of the 12ft version of John Welsford's Trover (without
well).

Dad's boat must be fast to build (not complicated), for motoring only
(sailing boats need not apply!!!), seaworthy, light, easy to build (a
few panels of marine ply) and not overly expensive. Basically he needs
a ply version of what we in australia call a 'tinnie'.

Thr Trover (12ft vers) is 12ft long, 4'7 beam. In cross section it is
made of only 5 panels (narrow flat bottom and two panels on each
side). Flat bottomed punts need not apply.



N. Peter Evans

************************************************** *****

Sometimes in a workplace you find snot on the wall of
the toilet cubicles. You feel "What sort of twisted
child would do this?"....the internet seems full of
them. It's very sad

On 10 May 2004 00:24:48 -0700,
(peterMelbourneAustralia) wrote something:
.....and I say in return....

Thanks for your replies.

The present boat is launched from a Trailer, but it is very solid,
would guess at 100kg, perhaps a touch more.

The trover wieghs in at 95Kg!
************************************************** *****

Sometimes in a workplace you find snot on the wall of
the toilet cubicles. You feel "What sort of twisted
child would do this?"....the internet seems full of
them. It's very sad

(peterMelbourneAustralia) wrote in message . com...
Thanks for your input.

couple of things,

1. What is exterior ply?

2. Dad, lives on south coast of NSW, Australia, which has the river,
many bays and a large bay exposedto the ocean. Thus choppy conditions
are quite common. As there are these choppy conditionsn I am opposed
to flat bottommed boats. However the smallboats.com site had a boat
called a herrring skiff. That is more like it, shallow V, 12ft long,
solid.

3. I also saw the dingy 12 from clarkcraft, guess all boats here are
getting the same.

4. Lastly I saw the dingy15 from boatplans.dk. This is a long narrow
boat with low freeboard, 15ft long, by 3'9" wide. Could a shorter,
slightly wider boat, with more freeboard be better (maybe 13'6 long,
4ft beam). What I mean is if the beam is narrow how much of an issue
is this, would it not be better in rougher seas than a wider flat
bottommed boat

N. Peter Evans









(Backyard Renegade) wrote in message . com...
(peterMelbourneAustralia) wrote in message . com...
Boat weights part 2.

Have looked at 12ft tinnies and they seem to weight approx 80kg
(176lb).

At the instantboats.com site there was a boat called a cartopper at
92lb which equals 42kg (more suited to dad than a large 15ft boat).

Feel that a ply boat a little more substantial and thus heavier than
the cartopper is what I am looking for. The lighter the better I
feel. Based on this tinnies appear abuot 50% heavier again than an
equivalent ply boat.

The boat is intended to be powered by my dad's 5hp outboard.

N. Peter Evans

Oh yeah, always forget about the Herring Skiff... As you may have
guessed by now I am smallboats.com. I did not design and have not
built the Herring Skiff, it was designed by a fellow in NYC and he
allowed me to post his site years ago. It would probably be a better
boat than the Stanley I suggested earlier. Again, very simple build,
nice high sides, might be a winner here. A real compromise between
Stanley and Diablo. I am not familiar with any of the other boats you
mentioned, sorry, maybe someone else can compare them, Scotty.
Scotty

Dynamite is a friend but he would have me tell it how I see it so he
should not mind. Cartopper like any other crossover / catchall boat
has it's limitations. I have built a couple of them and been in them
too. See link:
http://smallboats.com/boats_cartopper.htm
The problem with cartopper is that it is really in my limited opinion
a one person boat and for sailing or oar, not for fishing. This boat
with its round sides and lots of rocker has very little "useable"
floor space. It is a great boat if you are sitting in the center,
beyond that she is real tender. After building one for a local we went
out for a spin with his 2 horse. We had to get in the middle of the
boat and move to the ends and stay put to keep this boat level in the
water. One person could not sit in the rear, you would need a tiller
extension and when the local went out by himself he put 150 pounds of
sand in the bow so he could sit at the stern, takes the sand out if
his wife wants to come along then with all the rocker it is like
sitting on the top ends of a balanced banana. This is probably not the
boat for your dad.

You may have to compromise, I still suggest Diablo, or maybe even
something, ugh, flat bottom like this boat, flat bottom boats although
wet and less seaworthy are great fishing and just general screwing off
platforms, especially for someone elderly who may start to lose
balance and agility much sooner than the desire to go boating:
http://rbbpix.com/builders_01.htm
http://smallboats.com/stanley_sie.htm
Stanley can be built at about 135 pounds and will do just fine with a
5 horse, or even a two. Anyway, it is a real stable platform with all
of the floor space being useable without upsetting the stability. A
couple of fishermen can lean over one edge and not swamp it too. I
don't sell the plans for this boat yet, but if you want to build one
get with me through the website contact page and I will give you some
drawings which should provide enough info to get you going, lines and
such, very straight up build, be happy to help you help your dad stay
on the water.
Scotty, sorry guys, it's building season, have no time for
spellcheckers today!

Did you look at Welsford's Rifleman? 90kg and 14'9". i.e.; about the same
size as Trover but with a finer entry to better handle choppy conditions.
I'd go for ply rather than alloy - alloy boats are too noisey for me.

Hi
Look at www.pelinplans.co.nz I am building a dinghy called Nomad 12' it has
a gullwing bottom great in a following sea there also is 10 ' in the design
range.
its ply and frames shown on the plans but I am converting it over to been
"frameless" by changing the seating etc...
maybe worth a look....
"peterMelbourneAustralia" wrote in
message om...
My fahter, 72, is finding his 12ft fiberglass boat to heavy to launch
by himself and needs a lighter boat.

The present boat has a 5hp outboard, solidly built, seaworth and has a
deep keel, unfortunately it is also a little heavy.

Was thinking of the 12ft version of John Welsford's Trover (without
well).

Dad's boat must be fast to build (not complicated), for motoring only
(sailing boats need not apply!!!), seaworthy, light, easy to build (a
few panels of marine ply) and not overly expensive. Basically he needs
a ply version of what we in australia call a 'tinnie'.

Thr Trover (12ft vers) is 12ft long, 4'7 beam. In cross section it is
made of only 5 panels (narrow flat bottom and two panels on each
side). Flat bottomed punts need not apply.



N. Peter Evans

On 7 May 2004 22:44:20 -0700,
(peterMelbourneAustralia) vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

OK. You are not a Troll. You replied.
But you replied to those nthat "suited you"

Hve you made a decision?

My fahter, 72, is finding his 12ft fiberglass boat to heavy to launch
by himself and needs a lighter boat.

The present boat has a 5hp outboard, solidly built, seaworth and has a
deep keel, unfortunately it is also a little heavy.

Was thinking of the 12ft version of John Welsford's Trover (without
well).

Dad's boat must be fast to build (not complicated), for motoring only
(sailing boats need not apply!!!), seaworthy, light, easy to build (a
few panels of marine ply) and not overly expensive. Basically he needs
a ply version of what we in australia call a 'tinnie'.

Thr Trover (12ft vers) is 12ft long, 4'7 beam. In cross section it is
made of only 5 panels (narrow flat bottom and two panels on each
side). Flat bottomed punts need not apply.



N. Peter Evans

************************************************** *****

Sometimes in a workplace you find snot on the wall of
the toilet cubicles. You feel "What sort of twisted
child would do this?"....the internet seems full of
them. It's very sad