(Parallax) wrote in message . com...
(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...
Parallax ) writes:

Tonight, got one centerboard box made, ran out of material (3" wide
material) for second. Decided not to enclose it before sealing and
painting it. Strange that the instructions do not specify painting
the inside before enclosing it.

On the one daggerboard trunk that I've made I gave the inside surfaces two
coats of polyester resin for abraision resistance, just the inside exposed
surface, leaving the gluing surfaces uncoated. To help the polyester
adhere to the plywood the first coat was put on uncatalysed and allowed to
soak in over night before the second catalysed coat was put on. Then the
inside surfaces were given two coats of polyurethane liquid plastic for
extra waterproofing. This was a winter project so had the luxury of lots
of time to allow things to cure. It was also a lower cost alternative to
coating the inside with epoxy resin. I reserved the more expensive epoxy
to gluing the daggerboard to the boat and sealing the slot with a couple
additional coats.

Over the weekend, made centerboard boxes and installed them, Bow
frames and installed, Tapered bow but the plywood split on one and
required repair. Installed bow gussets. Bow gussets were a problem
as it is hard to determine whta is correct angle. Directions say 45
degrees which seems too large. Am now ready for installing sides.
I used epoxy to glue centerboard box and bow frame. Things are not
really fitting right but I make mods as required and patch with
thickened epoxy


I have run into a MAJOR problem when attaching the sides. On the left
side, it almost fits well although I havent fastened the bow. On the
right side, it is a disaster. I somehow managed to fasten it so it
goes below the bottom stringer so there is no way it can possibly fit
at the bow. The left side can be made to fit the bow, but the right
side will be left with about a 1" gap at the top tapering toward the
rear. Furthermore, there is no way the top stringer can attach to
this side piece but will simply sit atop it. This could be fixed with
fibreglass tape in the end but that isnt very elegant. I suspect I
have to remove the right side, cutting the glued joint with the saber
saw.
\
I have decided not to do ANY more work on boat #2 until I solve this
problem on #1, otherwise I will simply repeat my mistakes.

(Parallax) wrote in message . com...
(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...
Parallax ) writes:

Tonight, got one centerboard box made, ran out of material (3" wide
material) for second. Decided not to enclose it before sealing and
painting it. Strange that the instructions do not specify painting
the inside before enclosing it.

On the one daggerboard trunk that I've made I gave the inside surfaces two
coats of polyester resin for abraision resistance, just the inside exposed
surface, leaving the gluing surfaces uncoated. To help the polyester
adhere to the plywood the first coat was put on uncatalysed and allowed to
soak in over night before the second catalysed coat was put on. Then the
inside surfaces were given two coats of polyurethane liquid plastic for
extra waterproofing. This was a winter project so had the luxury of lots
of time to allow things to cure. It was also a lower cost alternative to
coating the inside with epoxy resin. I reserved the more expensive epoxy
to gluing the daggerboard to the boat and sealing the slot with a couple
additional coats.

Over the weekend, made centerboard boxes and installed them, Bow
frames and installed, Tapered bow but the plywood split on one and
required repair. Installed bow gussets. Bow gussets were a problem
as it is hard to determine whta is correct angle. Directions say 45
degrees which seems too large. Am now ready for installing sides.
I used epoxy to glue centerboard box and bow frame. Things are not
really fitting right but I make mods as required and patch with
thickened epoxy


Got the right side off again but even the left side does not really
fit right at the bow. If I try to get it's top edge within reasonable
distance of the bow end of the bow frame, say within 3/4" of being the
same height, then it misses the bottom stringer about 3' back adjacent
to the mast hole.

Options include:

1. Reduce the front height of the bow frame thus tapering the bow
downward just a little more, say 3/4". This will involve adding depth
to the top bow frame stringer.

2. Install the sides as best I can along the stringers aft of the bow
but make a thicker deck stringer for the bow. This can be done by
gluing a tapered piece to the deck stringer. The ply will not come
all the way up to the height of the bow frame at the bow but the space
will be covered by the thicker stringer. Epoxy putty will cover the
error.

3. Use a thicker bottom stringer (a stringer thickener) near the mast
hole but I dont think this will solve the whole problem.

4. Forcing the bottom adjacent to the mast hole up might allow the
stringer to be covered by the side. I am not sure what this will do
to the bottom shape. Not sure how to do this but I will try the
following: Use a strap clamp around the mast/centerboard box passing
over the outsides of the bottom stringers on either side and around
the bottom. Tighten, observe hull shape, tighten more, etc. Put in
screws thru side to hold it. MAYBE the strap clamp can then be pulled
out from between the side and the bottom stringer.

5. Perhaps a combo of 1,2,3 above.

(Parallax) wrote in message . com...
(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...
Parallax ) writes:

Tonight, got one centerboard box made, ran out of material (3" wide
material) for second. Decided not to enclose it before sealing and
painting it. Strange that the instructions do not specify painting
the inside before enclosing it.

On the one daggerboard trunk that I've made I gave the inside surfaces two
coats of polyester resin for abraision resistance, just the inside exposed
surface, leaving the gluing surfaces uncoated. To help the polyester
adhere to the plywood the first coat was put on uncatalysed and allowed to
soak in over night before the second catalysed coat was put on. Then the
inside surfaces were given two coats of polyurethane liquid plastic for
extra waterproofing. This was a winter project so had the luxury of lots
of time to allow things to cure. It was also a lower cost alternative to
coating the inside with epoxy resin. I reserved the more expensive epoxy
to gluing the daggerboard to the boat and sealing the slot with a couple
additional coats.

Over the weekend, made centerboard boxes and installed them, Bow
frames and installed, Tapered bow but the plywood split on one and
required repair. Installed bow gussets. Bow gussets were a problem
as it is hard to determine whta is correct angle. Directions say 45
degrees which seems too large. Am now ready for installing sides.
I used epoxy to glue centerboard box and bow frame. Things are not
really fitting right but I make mods as required and patch with
thickened epoxy

Strap clamp does work but does distort the bottom just a little. I
may need anothe clamp nearer the bow. I may also still need a little
thicker stringer at the bow.

BTW, "Gorilla Glue" does work for flat pieces but I was easily able to
separate the sides from the stringers (well, not easily, but at least
possible) so I will use epoxy for any parts under tension.

lesson learned.

usual practice is to do a dry fit befroe gluing up. its one reason for
using screws, they can be removed and reinserted. so you fit the pieces
together, sand protruding edges, then take them apart, apply glue, and put
them back together again. I just make a plywood backrest for my 4 year old
Loonie one sheeter. Cut out and fit, installed dry and tried out on
dry land, adjusted, then refit, before gluing up and painting.


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...
lesson learned.

usual practice is to do a dry fit befroe gluing up. its one reason for
using screws, they can be removed and reinserted. so you fit the pieces
together, sand protruding edges, then take them apart, apply glue, and put
them back together again. I just make a plywood backrest for my 4 year old
Loonie one sheeter. Cut out and fit, installed dry and tried out on
dry land, adjusted, then refit, before gluing up and painting.

OK, here are my choices:

1. Taper the bow center frame more so its front end more nearly
matches the height of the sides at the bow point, or,

2. Add more height to the stringers along the top of the sides near
the bow by gluing a very long wedge shaped piece to the stringer.

Suggestions?

(Parallax) wrote in message . com...
(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...
lesson learned.

snip
OK, here are my choices:

1. Taper the bow center frame more so its front end more nearly
matches the height of the sides at the bow point, or,

2. Add more height to the stringers along the top of the sides near
the bow by gluing a very long wedge shaped piece to the stringer.

Suggestions?

The stringers shouldn't bridge a gap where you can't get the side
panels to meet the bottom - the panels need to be in contact, or very
close to it, and the stringer needs to fill the angle between the two.
Building up the stringer to bridge the gap sounds weak and dificult
to seal effectively.

I'd suggest slowing down a bit - put aside half an hour to check that
everything is now symetrical and level.
Check that the boat is level and evenly supported all round, then
sight down the centre frame, and measure from a central point on the
daggerboard case to the edge of the bottom panel on each side -
checking measurements are near enough the same each side, everything
is straight, etc etc.
You can fix any problems you find now, but when you have the side
panels attached all the way to the bow, that's about that (without
major surgery).

I had to bow out the top edge of each side panel fairly severely to
get the front of the side panel to turn up enought to meet the forward
end of the bow frame. This meant cutting in a fairly sharp bevel into
the side of the bottom stringers - far more than the normal 7deg.
There was a fair amount of sweatin' and cursin' before I got a good
fit.

Do a test fit with half the number of screws before going near the
glue bottle.
When you're happy, release, glue up, then rescrew.

Good luck,

bookieb

(bookieb) wrote in message om...
(Parallax) wrote in message . com...
(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...
lesson learned.

snip
OK, here are my choices:

1. Taper the bow center frame more so its front end more nearly
matches the height of the sides at the bow point, or,

2. Add more height to the stringers along the top of the sides near
the bow by gluing a very long wedge shaped piece to the stringer.

Suggestions?

The stringers shouldn't bridge a gap where you can't get the side
panels to meet the bottom - the panels need to be in contact, or very
close to it, and the stringer needs to fill the angle between the two.
Building up the stringer to bridge the gap sounds weak and dificult
to seal effectively.

I'd suggest slowing down a bit - put aside half an hour to check that
everything is now symetrical and level.
Check that the boat is level and evenly supported all round, then
sight down the centre frame, and measure from a central point on the
daggerboard case to the edge of the bottom panel on each side -
checking measurements are near enough the same each side, everything
is straight, etc etc.
You can fix any problems you find now, but when you have the side
panels attached all the way to the bow, that's about that (without
major surgery).

I had to bow out the top edge of each side panel fairly severely to
get the front of the side panel to turn up enought to meet the forward
end of the bow frame. This meant cutting in a fairly sharp bevel into
the side of the bottom stringers - far more than the normal 7deg.
There was a fair amount of sweatin' and cursin' before I got a good
fit.

Do a test fit with half the number of screws before going near the
glue bottle.
When you're happy, release, glue up, then rescrew.

Good luck,

bookieb

Used BookieB advice. Got things to fit better but had to cut a
radical angle on bottom stringer, probably 20 degrees. Still had to
reduce height of bow frame by 1/4". Managed to get sides mostly
glued. Am using epoxy that is very old and it seems to set up very
fast even with very little hardener.

(Parallax) wrote in message . com...
(bookieb) wrote in message om...
(Parallax) wrote in message . com...
(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...
lesson learned.

snip
OK, here are my choices:

1. Taper the bow center frame more so its front end more nearly
matches the height of the sides at the bow point, or,

2. Add more height to the stringers along the top of the sides near
the bow by gluing a very long wedge shaped piece to the stringer.

Suggestions?

The stringers shouldn't bridge a gap where you can't get the side
panels to meet the bottom - the panels need to be in contact, or very
close to it, and the stringer needs to fill the angle between the two.
Building up the stringer to bridge the gap sounds weak and dificult
to seal effectively.

I'd suggest slowing down a bit - put aside half an hour to check that
everything is now symetrical and level.
Check that the boat is level and evenly supported all round, then
sight down the centre frame, and measure from a central point on the
daggerboard case to the edge of the bottom panel on each side -
checking measurements are near enough the same each side, everything
is straight, etc etc.
You can fix any problems you find now, but when you have the side
panels attached all the way to the bow, that's about that (without
major surgery).

I had to bow out the top edge of each side panel fairly severely to
get the front of the side panel to turn up enought to meet the forward
end of the bow frame. This meant cutting in a fairly sharp bevel into
the side of the bottom stringers - far more than the normal 7deg.
There was a fair amount of sweatin' and cursin' before I got a good
fit.

Do a test fit with half the number of screws before going near the
glue bottle.
When you're happy, release, glue up, then rescrew.

Good luck,

bookieb

Used BookieB advice. Got things to fit better but had to cut a
radical angle on bottom stringer, probably 20 degrees. Still had to
reduce height of bow frame by 1/4". Managed to get sides mostly
glued. Am using epoxy that is very old and it seems to set up very
fast even with very little hardener.

Took 3 1/2 days off to go caving. This evening, managed to get the transom on.

(Parallax) wrote in message . com...
(Parallax) wrote in message . com...
(bookieb) wrote in message om...
(Parallax) wrote in message . com...
(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...
lesson learned.

snip
OK, here are my choices:

1. Taper the bow center frame more so its front end more nearly
matches the height of the sides at the bow point, or,

2. Add more height to the stringers along the top of the sides near
the bow by gluing a very long wedge shaped piece to the stringer.

Suggestions?

The stringers shouldn't bridge a gap where you can't get the side
panels to meet the bottom - the panels need to be in contact, or very
close to it, and the stringer needs to fill the angle between the two.
Building up the stringer to bridge the gap sounds weak and dificult
to seal effectively.

I'd suggest slowing down a bit - put aside half an hour to check that
everything is now symetrical and level.
Check that the boat is level and evenly supported all round, then
sight down the centre frame, and measure from a central point on the
daggerboard case to the edge of the bottom panel on each side -
checking measurements are near enough the same each side, everything
is straight, etc etc.
You can fix any problems you find now, but when you have the side
panels attached all the way to the bow, that's about that (without
major surgery).

I had to bow out the top edge of each side panel fairly severely to
get the front of the side panel to turn up enought to meet the forward
end of the bow frame. This meant cutting in a fairly sharp bevel into
the side of the bottom stringers - far more than the normal 7deg.
There was a fair amount of sweatin' and cursin' before I got a good
fit.

Do a test fit with half the number of screws before going near the
glue bottle.
When you're happy, release, glue up, then rescrew.

Good luck,

bookieb

Used BookieB advice. Got things to fit better but had to cut a
radical angle on bottom stringer, probably 20 degrees. Still had to
reduce height of bow frame by 1/4". Managed to get sides mostly
glued. Am using epoxy that is very old and it seems to set up very
fast even with very little hardener.

Took 3 1/2 days off to go caving. This evening, managed to get the transom on.

Only managed to do a little caulking today.

"Parallax" wrote in message
om...
big snip
Only managed to do a little caulking today.

I go through this with all my projects - sometimes they'll sit for more than
a month - in fact there's a repair project in the living room that's been
waiting for more than a year (built a boat in that time though g)

--
Andrew Butchart

http://www.floatingbear.ca