remember that in working with wood it is often possible to fill, patch, and
fake a great finish. While a perfect fit would be nice many (most?) of us
are not able to accomplish that (and with some of the new glues the perfect
fit is not desirable)

save your sawdust--mix with epoxy and fill as needed.

seams that are glassed can take a lot of less than perfect fit and seams
that have a fillet . . . .

now Mr. Sawdust in his book on setting up the Dewalt RAS talks about getting
tolerances of 1/128th of an inch. That is lost on me as I have trouble
seeing a 32nd on the rule and a 64th I just can't even see.

give yourself a break and enjoy tolerances that a real person can sometimes
do.

Brian

"Brian Combs" wrote in message ...
remember that in working with wood it is often possible to fill, patch, and
fake a great finish. While a perfect fit would be nice many (most?) of us
are not able to accomplish that (and with some of the new glues the perfect
fit is not desirable)

save your sawdust--mix with epoxy and fill as needed.

seams that are glassed can take a lot of less than perfect fit and seams
that have a fillet . . . .

now Mr. Sawdust in his book on setting up the Dewalt RAS talks about getting
tolerances of 1/128th of an inch. That is lost on me as I have trouble
seeing a 32nd on the rule and a 64th I just can't even see.

give yourself a break and enjoy tolerances that a real person can sometimes
do.

Brian

Brian:

I appreciate that perspective because I have been wondering about the
correct philosophy of wooden boatbuilding. Although I strive for
accuracy, it is unattainable for a person of little woodworking skills
like me. So, do I remake parts that dont quite fit or do I make them
fit and then "make do" by covering with epoxy putty in the end? Being
somewhat pressed for time and being impatient, I know I will simply
"make do". However, one of my intentions with this project was to
determine if I had what it takes to possibly make a larger boat later.

Last night, I attached the aft bulkheads to the cockpit sides.
Although I thought I had measured the cockpit sides correctly at 10.5
inches, mine came out at 10.25" and it looks as if they should be
maybe 10.75" high. I guess I will make some sort of shim.

Parallax ) writes:

I appreciate that perspective because I have been wondering about the
correct philosophy of wooden boatbuilding. Although I strive for
accuracy, it is unattainable for a person of little woodworking skills
like me. So, do I remake parts that dont quite fit or do I make them
fit and then "make do" by covering with epoxy putty in the end? Being
somewhat pressed for time and being impatient, I know I will simply
"make do". However, one of my intentions with this project was to
determine if I had what it takes to possibly make a larger boat later.

when making my first boat, the plywood Dogskiff on my website, I bent the
plywood around the central frame and held the ends in place with string
and tape while I measured for the transom and took the framing angles with
a carpenter's bevel. The pieces were then cut to the exact angle. It may
be a cheap boat but I couldn't get a fingernail between the plywood and a
frame at any point. Close fits and bedding (putting some kind of goo
between the wooden pieces) can make a boat last much longer. People have
criticised my practice of using low cost materials but the boats are still
in regular use.

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(Parallax) wrote in message . com...
snip
After coating my hands with this glue (after two days and every kind
of solvent I can find, it still will not come off without taking off
skin although it is wearing off), I have decided to go slower. A less
frantic pace will lead to fewer errors and a nicer job. I spent some
time using the surform tool on the bulkhead stringers to make things
really smooth and even.

My wife says she is impressed although she may just be humoring me and
wondering if I have gone nuts.

I don't know what glue you are using, but for the last few years I've
been using latex gloves anytime I use adhesives or coatings. The
gloves are cheap when you buy them by the box and some of the products
that get used can have a bad effect on you over time.

With that said, I seem to get glue on my hands anyway somehow.

Andrew Butchart

(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...
Parallax ) writes:

I appreciate that perspective because I have been wondering about the
correct philosophy of wooden boatbuilding. Although I strive for
accuracy, it is unattainable for a person of little woodworking skills
like me. So, do I remake parts that dont quite fit or do I make them
fit and then "make do" by covering with epoxy putty in the end? Being
somewhat pressed for time and being impatient, I know I will simply
"make do". However, one of my intentions with this project was to
determine if I had what it takes to possibly make a larger boat later.

when making my first boat, the plywood Dogskiff on my website, I bent the
plywood around the central frame and held the ends in place with string
and tape while I measured for the transom and took the framing angles with
a carpenter's bevel. The pieces were then cut to the exact angle. It may
be a cheap boat but I couldn't get a fingernail between the plywood and a
frame at any point. Close fits and bedding (putting some kind of goo
between the wooden pieces) can make a boat last much longer. People have
criticised my practice of using low cost materials but the boats are still
in regular use.

Just got the cockpits and fwd bulkheads attached to the hull bottoms.
This went better than I thought it would. The hull bottoms bent
nicely to follow the bulkheads. For this, I used the 1" #8 screws
instead of the 3/4" ones because I wanted more holding power. They
did go all the way through the stringers. They arent a work of art,
but I think they are ok.

Parallax ) writes:

... I used the 1" #8 screws
instead of the 3/4" ones because I wanted more holding power. They
did go all the way through the stringers. They arent a work of art,
but I think they are ok.

I wouldn't do this on the hull below the waterline. Screws should only go
3/4 of the way into the last piece. When in doubt put them closer
together. However if you are using screws and glue the screws are not that
important. They clamp the pieces togehter until the glue sets. I've
removed the screws and had the glue hold fine. BTW when I have used
oversize screws in a pinch I've ground down the protruding points with a
grinding wheel on an electric drill. Its too easy to grab hold of a boat
somewhere and scratch a finger or palm on one of those points.

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(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...
Parallax ) writes:

... I used the 1" #8 screws
instead of the 3/4" ones because I wanted more holding power. They
did go all the way through the stringers. They arent a work of art,
but I think they are ok.

I wouldn't do this on the hull below the waterline. Screws should only go
3/4 of the way into the last piece. When in doubt put them closer
together. However if you are using screws and glue the screws are not that
important. They clamp the pieces togehter until the glue sets. I've
removed the screws and had the glue hold fine. BTW when I have used
oversize screws in a pinch I've ground down the protruding points with a
grinding wheel on an electric drill. Its too easy to grab hold of a boat
somewhere and scratch a finger or palm on one of those points.

William Watt:

Good Point!


Tonight, got one centerboard box made, ran out of material (3" wide
material) for second. Decided not to enclose it before sealing and
painting it. Strange that the instructions do not specify painting
the inside before enclosing it.
Began working on bow frame before I ran out of light.

Parallax ) writes:

Tonight, got one centerboard box made, ran out of material (3" wide
material) for second. Decided not to enclose it before sealing and
painting it. Strange that the instructions do not specify painting
the inside before enclosing it.

On the one daggerboard trunk that I've made I gave the inside surfaces two
coats of polyester resin for abraision resistance, just the inside exposed
surface, leaving the gluing surfaces uncoated. To help the polyester
adhere to the plywood the first coat was put on uncatalysed and allowed to
soak in over night before the second catalysed coat was put on. Then the
inside surfaces were given two coats of polyurethane liquid plastic for
extra waterproofing. This was a winter project so had the luxury of lots
of time to allow things to cure. It was also a lower cost alternative to
coating the inside with epoxy resin. I reserved the more expensive epoxy
to gluing the daggerboard to the boat and sealing the slot with a couple
additional coats.


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On 14 Apr 2004 07:17:11 -0700, (Parallax)
wrote:

After coating my hands with this glue (after two days and every kind
of solvent I can find, it still will not come off without taking off
skin although it is wearing off), I have decided to go slower.

The only thing that gets polyurethane glue off human skin is time. It
takes a week to ten days for me. Remember, too, that Gorilla glue has
NO gap filling properties. That is to say, the foamed glue has no
appreciable strength. You need good, tight mechanical contact for
polyurethane glue to do any good. The sloppy/beginning wooden
boatbuilder's best friend is epoxy. With the right fillers it is both
a powerful epoxy, and the gaps are nearly as strong as the material
you are gluing together. You will also find that the ounce-for-ounce
price of marine epoxies is not that much different from polyurethane
glues (but let's not have a flamewar over this, please?).

A less
frantic pace will lead to fewer errors and a nicer job. I spent some
time using the surform tool on the bulkhead stringers to make things
really smooth and even.

If you just want a boat -- buy one. If you enjoy the building
process, I think you are wise. If you hurry, you'll just start
focusing on the next boat.

- Rick
--
"Ignorant voracity -- a wingless vulture -- can soar only into the
depths of ignominy." Patrick O'Brian

(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...
Parallax ) writes:

Tonight, got one centerboard box made, ran out of material (3" wide
material) for second. Decided not to enclose it before sealing and
painting it. Strange that the instructions do not specify painting
the inside before enclosing it.

On the one daggerboard trunk that I've made I gave the inside surfaces two
coats of polyester resin for abraision resistance, just the inside exposed
surface, leaving the gluing surfaces uncoated. To help the polyester
adhere to the plywood the first coat was put on uncatalysed and allowed to
soak in over night before the second catalysed coat was put on. Then the
inside surfaces were given two coats of polyurethane liquid plastic for
extra waterproofing. This was a winter project so had the luxury of lots
of time to allow things to cure. It was also a lower cost alternative to
coating the inside with epoxy resin. I reserved the more expensive epoxy
to gluing the daggerboard to the boat and sealing the slot with a couple
additional coats.

Over the weekend, made centerboard boxes and installed them, Bow
frames and installed, Tapered bow but the plywood split on one and
required repair. Installed bow gussets. Bow gussets were a problem
as it is hard to determine whta is correct angle. Directions say 45
degrees which seems too large. Am now ready for installing sides.
I used epoxy to glue centerboard box and bow frame. Things are not
really fitting right but I make mods as required and patch with
thickened epoxy