Glenn,
Are you planning to us this as an evaporator?
Matt Colie

Glenn Ashmore wrote:
I am in the process of doing that now. Formed loops of 1/4" OD 70/30
copper/nickel alloy tubing running horizontally along either side of the
keel bolts wired to sit about 1/4" inside the surface. Tubing is about 5'
long. Theoretically it is a good bit more than needed but without definite
data on the heat transfer through the lead and having only one chance I
figured it was better to be a bit bigger rather than not big enough. Kept
the diameter small and the runs as horizontal as possible to keep the
velocity up and prevent oil from getting trapped at the bottom of the
condenser.

"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...
Glenn,
Are you planning to us this as an evaporator?
Matt Colie

No. It will be the condenser. The evaporator goes in the refrigerator.
The keel will be cold enough already. :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Glenn-
I recollect that you cast your ballast keel years ago, so will this be set
in some kind of bog between the lead keel and the hull's (wood epoxy &
glass) keel?
Seems to me to be a very good idea to be putting such plumbing, if it can be
made to work, in a place where it can be gotten to, if need be. I was
beginning to worry a lot about pipes actually cast into a lead keel.

Getting back to the original post- maybe if there were troughs cast (or
machined) into the top of the lead casting, pipes for heat transfer could be
set in them.

A few thoughts from the barnyard engineer,
Jim


"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:4p2Qf.492510$0l5.375670@dukeread06...

"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...
Glenn,
Are you planning to us this as an evaporator?
Matt Colie

No. It will be the condenser. The evaporator goes in the refrigerator.
The keel will be cold enough already. :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

No. I cast the bulb years ago. Everything is ready to cast the fin except
my intestinal fortitude. :-) The fin is a lot more complicated and I have
this recurring nightmare that I am going to get something slightly out of
alignment and then have to sail through life slightly catawampus. But then
I have been accused of that by the neighbors already. :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Jim Conlin" wrote in message
...
Glenn-
I recollect that you cast your ballast keel years ago, so will this be set
in some kind of bog between the lead keel and the hull's (wood epoxy &
glass) keel?
Seems to me to be a very good idea to be putting such plumbing, if it can
be
made to work, in a place where it can be gotten to, if need be. I was
beginning to worry a lot about pipes actually cast into a lead keel.

Getting back to the original post- maybe if there were troughs cast (or
machined) into the top of the lead casting, pipes for heat transfer could
be
set in them.

A few thoughts from the barnyard engineer,
Jim


"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:4p2Qf.492510$0l5.375670@dukeread06...

"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...
Glenn,
Are you planning to us this as an evaporator?
Matt Colie

No. It will be the condenser. The evaporator goes in the refrigerator.
The keel will be cold enough already. :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Glenn Ashmore wrote:
No. I cast the bulb years ago. Everything is ready to cast the fin except
my intestinal fortitude. :-) The fin is a lot more complicated and I have
this recurring nightmare that I am going to get something slightly out of
alignment and then have to sail through life slightly catawampus. But then
I have been accused of that by the neighbors already. :-)


Don't worry about it. You will do a far better job than most
boatbuilder. Walk thru any boat yard and with bare ey,
you'll be able to see the keels on many boats are off kilter.

Even the great J-24 has to have it's keel faired to be
symmetrical and remounted to be vertical, centered, and
aligned, for the boat to not sail catty-wompus.

Most people don't ever notice ....unless there's another
boat of the same class sailing alongside, outpointing them.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I was planning to use pipe cast into the keel to cool the engine.!
{A Sabb 22hp}. The Keel cooler that came with the engine is 10' long
5/8 tubing My keel will be a long rectangle. Aprox. 10' x 15"x 15"
.. Glenn do you plan to use some type of flux on the tubing , Before
casting the lead ? And what type of wire do plan to use , To hold the
tubing in place Thanks CW

That is a WHOLE different creature. With refrigeration you are trying to
dump a few hundred BTUs an hour. With engine cooling you are dumping a few
hundred BTUs a MINUTE. Lead is not the greatest heat conductor so you will
need a lot more surface area than a bare tube condenser. It will be hard to
bury that much and still keep the lead structurally sound.

With my small diameter tube I am not to worried about the bond but I will
sand blast the whole bolt frame/condenser assembly and paint the tubing with
an acid flux formulated for tinning copper pots. I found that the
copper/nickel wets out much better with it than regular acid solder flux.

I wired the tubes in place with .032 316L stainless wire. Not ideal but I
end up with a lot of 6' lengths every time I change from 316 to mild steel
wire on my MIG welder so I figure to put it to some use.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Hess cutter 56" wrote in message
oups.com...
I was planning to use pipe cast into the keel to cool the engine.!
{A Sabb 22hp}. The Keel cooler that came with the engine is 10' long
5/8 tubing My keel will be a long rectangle. Aprox. 10' x 15"x 15"
. Glenn do you plan to use some type of flux on the tubing , Before
casting the lead ? And what type of wire do plan to use , To hold the
tubing in place Thanks CW

Glenn,
In the past I have done both bulbs and fins. The BIG thing is that the
hydraulic pressure at the bottom of a fin mold is UN F.....g
Believable!! (Fortunately - No one got hurt the day we learned all about
that.)
When we built a mold that could take about 15 (11+sf for heat) times the
pressure water would exert, the next pour was still nervous but
fortunately dull.

Cooling takes WAY longer than I expected.

Matt Colie


Glenn Ashmore wrote:

No. I cast the bulb years ago. Everything is ready to cast the fin except
my intestinal fortitude. :-) The fin is a lot more complicated and I have
this recurring nightmare that I am going to get something slightly out of
alignment and then have to sail through life slightly catawampus. But then
I have been accused of that by the neighbors already. :-)

Glenn,
If it is a condensor, then the liquid refrigerant should carry the oil
along and should not pool in the turns of the coil (notice please the
"shoulds"). But I like th idea as you have it because:
-You have separate turns so a damaged turn could be eliminated from the
circuit.
-You may decide to rework the refrigation to be reversable and so
provide heat from the pond at little cost.

Just be sure that you keep the keep above freezing in fresh water. If
this idea appeals to you, you migth think of putting a little loop like
a trap at the outlet end just before the lift so the oil has someplace
to collect a form a big enough plug so it gets lifted out of the cooler.

Sounds interesting - I'd love to hear how it works out.

Matt Colie ex reefer guy (among the rest)


Glenn Ashmore wrote:
"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...

Glenn,
Are you planning to us this as an evaporator?
Matt Colie


No. It will be the condenser. The evaporator goes in the refrigerator.
The keel will be cold enough already. :-)

The down side of casting a condenser in the keel is that it is an extremely
permanent installation. No way to fix it once it is done so I added one
extra loop. If one of the working loops springs a leak I can just switch
over to the spare. I have had them pressurized with nitrogen to 250pis for
3 months now so hopefully they will not leak once they are inside the lead.

The loops are a continuous downward slope so the oil will pool right at the
return end. Probably could have made it a bit more efficient with a larger
OD tube to slow the refrigerant down, get more surface area and less
pressure drop but I read so much about oil getting trapped in the condenser
and starving the compressors that I got scared.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...
Glenn,
If it is a condensor, then the liquid refrigerant should carry the oil
along and should not pool in the turns of the coil (notice please the
"shoulds"). But I like th idea as you have it because:
-You have separate turns so a damaged turn could be eliminated from the
circuit.
-You may decide to rework the refrigation to be reversable and so provide
heat from the pond at little cost.

Just be sure that you keep the keep above freezing in fresh water. If
this idea appeals to you, you migth think of putting a little loop like a
trap at the outlet end just before the lift so the oil has someplace to
collect a form a big enough plug so it gets lifted out of the cooler.

Sounds interesting - I'd love to hear how it works out.

Matt Colie ex reefer guy (among the rest)


Glenn Ashmore wrote:
"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...

Glenn,
Are you planning to us this as an evaporator?
Matt Colie


No. It will be the condenser. The evaporator goes in the refrigerator.
The keel will be cold enough already. :-)