Hi,

I build Water Wheels and sell them. However, I am no expert at using
epoxy and various protective finishers & Sealers for Wood. I use 3/4
inch Marine Plywood for my 4ft Water Wheel (with 12mm Marine Ply used
for Water buckets) and 1/2 inch for my 3ft and 2ft WaterWheels (with
9mm Marine Ply used for the Water Buckets). Can anyone recommend some
products to use to seal & finish my Water Wheels decoratively and I
would be most greatful if you could provide a good method of
application. Currently, I just sand the wood, apply the paint undercoat
and whatever color paint onto that and finally applying the epoxy to
seal it.

Any suggestions or ideas welcome. For reference, please see
www.irishwaterwheels.com.

Thanks in advance.

wrote:
Hi,

I build Water Wheels and sell them. However, I am no expert at using
epoxy and various protective finishers & Sealers for Wood. I use 3/4
inch Marine Plywood for my 4ft Water Wheel (with 12mm Marine Ply used
for Water buckets) and 1/2 inch for my 3ft and 2ft WaterWheels (with
9mm Marine Ply used for the Water Buckets). Can anyone recommend some
products to use to seal & finish my Water Wheels decoratively and I
would be most greatful if you could provide a good method of
application. Currently, I just sand the wood, apply the paint undercoat
and whatever color paint onto that and finally applying the epoxy to
seal it.

Any suggestions or ideas welcome. For reference, please see
www.irishwaterwheels.com.

Thanks in advance.


Um, you've kind of got it backwards. If nothing else, the epoxy should
go against the bare wood, then primer, then finish coat/color.

The epoxy/wood bond is far stronger than a primer/wood bond, so you are
doing a disservice to your self and clients in the order you describe.

In addition, unless you take certain, definite precautions with admixes,
epoxy in direct sunlight with shortly discolor, unless you happened to
buy one with UV protection in it (if such a beast exists)

good luck,

Jonathan

As Johnathan said. You got it bassackards. Apply the epoxy first. You
might even consider encapsulating the parts in two coast of epoxy before
assembly. That will protect the hidden edges should the finish coats crack
when a joint flexes a little. Then you can finish it how ever you want.
Use a UV resistant varnish if you are finishing it bright so the sunlight
won't degrade the epoxy.

OTOH, I think it may depend on the wood. An old geezer down the creek from
me built a grist mill powered by a 10' wheel. All unfinished heart pine.
It has been running for almost 60 years. It is covered in moss but I don't
think he has ever had to replace a board.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I build Water Wheels and sell them. However, I am no expert at using
epoxy and various protective finishers & Sealers for Wood. I use 3/4
inch Marine Plywood for my 4ft Water Wheel (with 12mm Marine Ply used
for Water buckets) and 1/2 inch for my 3ft and 2ft WaterWheels (with
9mm Marine Ply used for the Water Buckets). Can anyone recommend some
products to use to seal & finish my Water Wheels decoratively and I
would be most greatful if you could provide a good method of
application. Currently, I just sand the wood, apply the paint undercoat
and whatever color paint onto that and finally applying the epoxy to
seal it.

Any suggestions or ideas welcome. For reference, please see
www.irishwaterwheels.com.

Thanks in advance.

Alright, thanks for clearing up that confusion as the guy in the Marine
supplies shop told me I should do it the "backass way" I described,
guess he didn't have a clue!! So, in summary, I should apply ...

- the epoxy first against the bare wood (encapsulating the parts in two
coats of epoxy before assembly)
- then the wood primer
- then apply the color coat
- then finish it with a UV resistant varnish to avoid sunlight epoxy
degradation.

Now, I'm sure there are different varying types of epoxy so can anyone
please recommend a god epoxy or is one just as good as another? Do I
need to sand in between application of coats? Is there any special
method of application or any tools that would make the above method
quicker?

Thanks for all the advise and help to date.

The main thing I think you need to consider is the viscosity. In my
experience the less expensive brands tend to be a bit thick to penetrate the
wood pores unless they are specifically for encapsulation. To apply, sand
the wood to #120 at most, lay on a first coat and let it cure until it
almost looses its tack before laying the second. That way you will have a
chemical bond between the coats. If you wait more than 24 hours you will
have to wash and sand again.

Epoxy develops a waxy water soluble surface film as it cures so let the
second coat cure for at least 3 or 4 days then wash and sand before laying
the primer. Do some research before settling on the primer to make sure it
will bond to the epoxy. I would also use the epoxy as the assembly
adhesive.

The UV varnish is needed if you are clear coating. If you are using a good
opaque primer and top coat you don't need the UV varnish to protect the
epoxy but it will make your top coat last longer.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

wrote in message
ups.com...
Alright, thanks for clearing up that confusion as the guy in the Marine
supplies shop told me I should do it the "backass way" I described,
guess he didn't have a clue!! So, in summary, I should apply ...

- the epoxy first against the bare wood (encapsulating the parts in two
coats of epoxy before assembly)
- then the wood primer
- then apply the color coat
- then finish it with a UV resistant varnish to avoid sunlight epoxy
degradation.

Now, I'm sure there are different varying types of epoxy so can anyone
please recommend a god epoxy or is one just as good as another? Do I
need to sand in between application of coats? Is there any special
method of application or any tools that would make the above method
quicker?

Thanks for all the advise and help to date.

Thanks for the prompt response and the really helpful information, I'm
totally new to this whole area sp please excuse any seemingly stupid
questions.
I intended to use the the epoxy as the assembly adhesive alright but I
have to ask why I have to wash and sand before laying the primer onto
the Epoxy? I'm not sure if the primer I was sold will bond well to the
epoxy I got but I'll do some other research besides on this. When all
is done and if I do apply the UV varnish ontop of the topcoat, how long
should the whole Water Wheel last before maintenance is required? Also,
is Marine Plywood the correct material to be using for this type of
product or could you recommend any better materials?

Again, the information you have provided me is invaluable, thanks.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for the prompt response and the really helpful information, I'm
totally new to this whole area sp please excuse any seemingly stupid
questions.
I intended to use the the epoxy as the assembly adhesive alright but I
have to ask why I have to wash and sand before laying the primer onto
the Epoxy? I'm not sure if the primer I was sold will bond well to the
epoxy I got but I'll do some other research besides on this. When all
is done and if I do apply the UV varnish ontop of the topcoat, how long
should the whole Water Wheel last before maintenance is required? Also,
is Marine Plywood the correct material to be using for this type of
product or could you recommend any better materials?

Again, the information you have provided me is invaluable, thanks.

As I said, epoxy develops a waxy film called amine blush on the surface as
it cures that limits the bond with the next coat, what ever it is. Amine is
water soluable so it can be washed off. Sanding without washing just grinds
the amine into the surface. Sanding also gives the surface some tooth for a
better mechanical bond.

How long a finish lasts is related to the UV exposure, heat and the
transparency of the coating. A clear coat boat finish in the tropics might
get a year before a new top coat is required. A good quality marine paint
might last 3 or 4 years or longer. Further north you can probably expect
twice that. What usually happens is that the pigments start bleaching and
paint surfaces start chalking up long before the coating looses its
protective ability. That might actually add a nice patina to the wheels
over time. Cracking and flaking would be a problem though.

In your case marine plywood might be overkill. The main advantage of marine
grade over a good A/B exterior grade is that it has thinner plys and
(theoretically) no voids. It will bend more evenly and if it soaks in water
it will not develop pockets of moisture that can cause interior rotting.
Your designs don't seem to use many bent shapes and as they are largely
ornamental, don't seem to be constantly immersed and won't have the long
term soaking problem.

One thing you might consider is trying solid cypress. It is relatively
cheap, very durable, requires no finish and weathers to a beautiful silver.
Definitely will look more authentic for the real traditionalist.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Thanks Glenn, excellent answer with more than enough detail!!

Thanks also for the suggestion of trying the solid cypress although I
would preferably like to finish my Water Wheels with a stained design
so should I apply the stain after the epoxy and primer?

Finally (I promise, last question), I give customers the option of a
wooden (Marine Plywood treated with epoxy) or galvanised steel stand
although the stainless stell stand is very expensive, time consuming
and difficult to manufacture. In your own opinion, do you think I can
use Marine plywood extensively for the Water Wheel stand even though it
will be permanently partly-immersed in water? I also want the option of
being able to secure the Wheel at a specific height on the stand which
I reckon I can master.

You were talking about paint not stain. Stains (aniline or other water
based) go on the bare wood before encapsulation and the whole thing is clear
coated. If you are talking about an opaque stain over a white base primer
encapsulate first and use a UV resistant sealer coat over the stain to slow
pigment fading.

As long as the epoxy encapsulation remains in good condition almost any good
quality exterior plywood will last a very long time.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks Glenn, excellent answer with more than enough detail!!

Thanks also for the suggestion of trying the solid cypress although I
would preferably like to finish my Water Wheels with a stained design
so should I apply the stain after the epoxy and primer?

Finally (I promise, last question), I give customers the option of a
wooden (Marine Plywood treated with epoxy) or galvanised steel stand
although the stainless stell stand is very expensive, time consuming
and difficult to manufacture. In your own opinion, do you think I can
use Marine plywood extensively for the Water Wheel stand even though it
will be permanently partly-immersed in water? I also want the option of
being able to secure the Wheel at a specific height on the stand which
I reckon I can master.

Thanks, that's everything I need to know for now ;-)

Yes, I was originally speaking about paint but I have some celtic
templates which I may use to stain a celtic design into the WaterWheel
itself. So yes, this will be a dark stain over a white base primer.

You answers have been extremely prompt and really helpful, thanks for
everything.