Just for the record, Jim, the can is labeled Epoxy Barrier-Kote. And the
catalog describes is as suitable for above or below water applications. The
directions also state that it must be thinned.

Thanks for your thoughts.

BS

"Jim Conlin" wrote in message
...
Interlux 404/414 is not a barrier coat. It's a sandable primer whose
function is to provide a tie coat between sime substrate and an impervious
finish coat such as an LPU paint. If applied as directed, it's just
loaded
with expensive solvents and is consequently pretty porous. Useless under
bottom paint. If you are using it as a primer under finish paint and not
under bottom paint, go for it. I'd try acetone. Let us know your result.

"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message
...
Can I successfully use acetone to thin epoxy barrier coats? I am thinking
of
Interlux 404/414 in particular, but the question is also a general one.

I am aware that there are proprietary products for this application, but
I
need to paint tomorrow morning, and the nearest dealer is about 60 miles
away.

Bob Swarts

I'm jumping in on this late, so forgive me if I'm off track ..I just saw the
reference to 404/414 Barrier Kote from Interlux, my favorite primer, and it
looks like there's some controversy on what it is. The reason that it's
called Epoxy Barrier Kote is because some coatings, paint that is, get
unhappy with leftover amines and what not on cured epoxy. To paint the
epoxy with such a paint, alkyd enamels for example, you need to sand, wash,
and prime the epoxy with an appropriate barrier coat that sticks well to
epoxy and provides a good substrate that he paint also sticks well to. The
Interlux 404/414 Barrier Kote (stinky but good) makes a very good primer for
protecting paints from epoxy chemistry that might still be on the boat, and
it's very high body (hides defects) and sands well too. Like I said, stinky
but good. Keep the doors open.

Brian D



"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message
...
Just for the record, Jim, the can is labeled Epoxy Barrier-Kote. And the
catalog describes is as suitable for above or below water applications.
The directions also state that it must be thinned.

Thanks for your thoughts.

BS

"Jim Conlin" wrote in message
...
Interlux 404/414 is not a barrier coat. It's a sandable primer whose
function is to provide a tie coat between sime substrate and an
impervious
finish coat such as an LPU paint. If applied as directed, it's just
loaded
with expensive solvents and is consequently pretty porous. Useless under
bottom paint. If you are using it as a primer under finish paint and
not
under bottom paint, go for it. I'd try acetone. Let us know your
result.

"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message
...
Can I successfully use acetone to thin epoxy barrier coats? I am
thinking
of
Interlux 404/414 in particular, but the question is also a general one.

I am aware that there are proprietary products for this application, but
I
need to paint tomorrow morning, and the nearest dealer is about 60 miles
away.

Bob Swarts

When thinned as directed, 404/414 is very porous and only prevents the
passage of bacteria and up. 404/414 is not a barrier coating in the sense
that it prevents osmotic blistering ('pox'). Not the usual meaning of
'barrier coat', in spite of interlux's labelling. The Interlux product for
that is Interprotect 2000. . Being epoxy-based, it provides good
mechanical bond for oher finishes.
"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message
...
Just for the record, Jim, the can is labeled Epoxy Barrier-Kote. And the
catalog describes is as suitable for above or below water applications.
The
directions also state that it must be thinned.

Thanks for your thoughts.

BS

"Jim Conlin" wrote in message
...
Interlux 404/414 is not a barrier coat. It's a sandable primer whose
function is to provide a tie coat between sime substrate and an
impervious
finish coat such as an LPU paint. If applied as directed, it's just
loaded
with expensive solvents and is consequently pretty porous. Useless
under
bottom paint. If you are using it as a primer under finish paint and
not
under bottom paint, go for it. I'd try acetone. Let us know your
result.

"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message
...
Can I successfully use acetone to thin epoxy barrier coats? I am
thinking
of
Interlux 404/414 in particular, but the question is also a general one.

I am aware that there are proprietary products for this application,
but
I
need to paint tomorrow morning, and the nearest dealer is about 60
miles
away.

Bob Swarts

Unfortunate terms ...what would you call a primer that's designed to act as
a chemical barrier between alkyd enamel and amines on epoxy?

As a point of information, I spent quite a bit of time on the phone with a
paint expert (working for Ameron) once and he explained that topsides paints
work by blocking moisture in the short term but were unable to block it in
the long term. If kept in the water, moisture could get underneath it
eventually, but then not be able to get back out quickly enough to prevent
blistering when heated by the sun. Below the waterline paints he explained,
were designed to allow moisture to flow in and out more easily and this
prevented blistering ...but required a waterproof substrate instead. I'm
confused because I would guess that waterproofness was what determined if a
paint was for below the waterline or not. Or maybe he was implying that
there was no truly waterproof paints? Maybe Awlgrip or Sterling? Anyone??

Brian


"Jim Conlin" wrote in message
...
When thinned as directed, 404/414 is very porous and only prevents the
passage of bacteria and up. 404/414 is not a barrier coating in the sense
that it prevents osmotic blistering ('pox'). Not the usual meaning of
'barrier coat', in spite of interlux's labelling. The Interlux product
for
that is Interprotect 2000. . Being epoxy-based, it provides good
mechanical bond for oher finishes.
"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message
...
Just for the record, Jim, the can is labeled Epoxy Barrier-Kote. And the
catalog describes is as suitable for above or below water applications.
The
directions also state that it must be thinned.

Thanks for your thoughts.

BS

"Jim Conlin" wrote in message
...
Interlux 404/414 is not a barrier coat. It's a sandable primer whose
function is to provide a tie coat between sime substrate and an
impervious
finish coat such as an LPU paint. If applied as directed, it's just
loaded
with expensive solvents and is consequently pretty porous. Useless
under
bottom paint. If you are using it as a primer under finish paint and
not
under bottom paint, go for it. I'd try acetone. Let us know your
result.

"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message
...
Can I successfully use acetone to thin epoxy barrier coats? I am
thinking
of
Interlux 404/414 in particular, but the question is also a general
one.

I am aware that there are proprietary products for this application,
but
I
need to paint tomorrow morning, and the nearest dealer is about 60
miles
away.

Bob Swarts

Thank you all for your comments.

For the record, I ended up thinning it about 20% with alcohol. This worked
well as far as thinning is concerned, but the alcohol apparently evaporates
too fast. It is impossible for the brush strokes to flow out well. So --
more sanding. The good news is that it finds, and with persistence, fills --
or at least coats -- about every pin hole in the resin base. It dries
quickly and appears to sand well. I am actually using it as a primer under
Interprotect 2000 BTW.

This is the second time I have purchased Interlux products which have been
described as applicable to things I later found out they were not truly
suitable for.

BS

"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message
...
Just for the record, Jim, the can is labeled Epoxy Barrier-Kote. And the
catalog describes is as suitable for above or below water applications.
The directions also state that it must be thinned.

Thanks for your thoughts.

BS

"Jim Conlin" wrote in message
...
Interlux 404/414 is not a barrier coat. It's a sandable primer whose
function is to provide a tie coat between sime substrate and an
impervious
finish coat such as an LPU paint. If applied as directed, it's just
loaded
with expensive solvents and is consequently pretty porous. Useless under
bottom paint. If you are using it as a primer under finish paint and
not
under bottom paint, go for it. I'd try acetone. Let us know your
result.

"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message
...
Can I successfully use acetone to thin epoxy barrier coats? I am
thinking
of
Interlux 404/414 in particular, but the question is also a general one.

I am aware that there are proprietary products for this application, but
I
need to paint tomorrow morning, and the nearest dealer is about 60 miles
away.

Bob Swarts

I'm curious ...I gave away my last bit of 404/414 so don't have a label to
read, but who's description was misleading? Interlux's? Or was the
description ambiguous instead? You know ...poorly written and could apply
equally well to more than one (conflicting) type of use? Have you called
the rep and told him about your experiences? Might save some newbies
headaches later on if the labels were clearer... Most companies won't want
you to be unhappy because a product was used for the wrong type of
application.

Brian


"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message
...
Thank you all for your comments.

For the record, I ended up thinning it about 20% with alcohol. This worked
well as far as thinning is concerned, but the alcohol apparently
evaporates too fast. It is impossible for the brush strokes to flow out
well. So -- more sanding. The good news is that it finds, and with
persistence, fills -- or at least coats -- about every pin hole in the
resin base. It dries quickly and appears to sand well. I am actually using
it as a primer under Interprotect 2000 BTW.

This is the second time I have purchased Interlux products which have been
described as applicable to things I later found out they were not truly
suitable for.

BS

"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message
...
Just for the record, Jim, the can is labeled Epoxy Barrier-Kote. And the
catalog describes is as suitable for above or below water applications.
The directions also state that it must be thinned.

Thanks for your thoughts.

BS

"Jim Conlin" wrote in message
...
Interlux 404/414 is not a barrier coat. It's a sandable primer whose
function is to provide a tie coat between sime substrate and an
impervious
finish coat such as an LPU paint. If applied as directed, it's just
loaded
with expensive solvents and is consequently pretty porous. Useless
under
bottom paint. If you are using it as a primer under finish paint and
not
under bottom paint, go for it. I'd try acetone. Let us know your
result.

"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message
...
Can I successfully use acetone to thin epoxy barrier coats? I am
thinking
of
Interlux 404/414 in particular, but the question is also a general one.

I am aware that there are proprietary products for this application,
but I
need to paint tomorrow morning, and the nearest dealer is about 60
miles
away.

Bob Swarts

In the case of the 404/414, the can is labeled in bold print "Epoxy
Barrier-Kote".

In the case of Interlux's Epiglass epoxy, the ad in Boaters World catalog
describes it as a two-part, high build primer suitable as a coating where
gelcoat has been removed. I called Boaters World and they assured me the ad
was written by Interlux. I called Interlux's tech line and they said that
was not an appropriate application and didn't understand why it was
described as such.

Neither organization seemed much concerned with correcting matters when I
pointed out it would be a good idea. Boaters World, however, did refund the
purchase price of the Epiglass even though it was partly used.

BS

"Brian D" wrote in message
...

I'm curious ...I gave away my last bit of 404/414 so don't have a label to
read, but who's description was misleading? Interlux's? Or was the
description ambiguous instead? You know ...poorly written and could apply
equally well to more than one (conflicting) type of use? Have you called
the rep and told him about your experiences? Might save some newbies
headaches later on if the labels were clearer... Most companies won't want
you to be unhappy because a product was used for the wrong type of
application.

Brian


"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message
...
Thank you all for your comments.

For the record, I ended up thinning it about 20% with alcohol. This
worked well as far as thinning is concerned, but the alcohol apparently
evaporates too fast. It is impossible for the brush strokes to flow out
well. So -- more sanding. The good news is that it finds, and with
persistence, fills -- or at least coats -- about every pin hole in the
resin base. It dries quickly and appears to sand well. I am actually
using it as a primer under Interprotect 2000 BTW.

This is the second time I have purchased Interlux products which have
been described as applicable to things I later found out they were not
truly suitable for.

BS

"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message
...
Just for the record, Jim, the can is labeled Epoxy Barrier-Kote. And the
catalog describes is as suitable for above or below water applications.
The directions also state that it must be thinned.

Thanks for your thoughts.

BS

"Jim Conlin" wrote in message
...
Interlux 404/414 is not a barrier coat. It's a sandable primer whose
function is to provide a tie coat between sime substrate and an
impervious
finish coat such as an LPU paint. If applied as directed, it's just
loaded
with expensive solvents and is consequently pretty porous. Useless
under
bottom paint. If you are using it as a primer under finish paint and
not
under bottom paint, go for it. I'd try acetone. Let us know your
result.

"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message
...
Can I successfully use acetone to thin epoxy barrier coats? I am
thinking
of
Interlux 404/414 in particular, but the question is also a general
one.

I am aware that there are proprietary products for this application,
but I
need to paint tomorrow morning, and the nearest dealer is about 60
miles
away.

Bob Swarts

Robert or Karen Swarts wrote:
In the case of the 404/414, the can is labeled in bold print "Epoxy
Barrier-Kote".

It seems that it should be labeled "Barrier Coat for Epoxy".

Robert or Karen Swarts wrote:

In the case of the 404/414, the can is labeled in bold print "Epoxy
Barrier-Kote".

In the case of Interlux's Epiglass epoxy, the ad in Boaters World catalog
describes it as a two-part, high build primer suitable as a coating where
gelcoat has been removed. I called Boaters World and they assured me the ad
was written by Interlux. I called Interlux's tech line and they said that
was not an appropriate application and didn't understand why it was
described as such.

.................




Just for the record, Jim, the can is labeled Epoxy Barrier-Kote. And the
catalog describes is as suitable for above or below water applications.
The directions also state that it must be thinned.

-----------------


Interlux 404/414 is not a barrier coat. It's a sandable primer whose
function is to provide a tie coat between sime substrate and an
impervious
finish coat such as an LPU paint. If applied as directed, it's just
loaded
with expensive solvents and is consequently pretty porous. Useless
under
bottom paint. If you are using it as a primer under finish paint and
not
under bottom paint, go for it. I'd try acetone. Let us know your
result.

"R

-----------



A few things worth noting (I'm a marine and industrial epoxy vendor)...

no such thing as expensive solvents (relative to the epoxies) ----

All of our epoxy primers are essentially just solvent thinned epoxy. You
can add about 1 pint of solvent to 1 gal of resin (not including the
curing agent) before you begin to 'damage' the epoxy, but for many
applications no problem with using even a lot more solvent.

no problem with adding solvent to any sort of barrier coat epoxy.
Barrier coat epoxy is generally just industrial epoxy paint (resin plus
pigment plus a thixo agent). Regular marine epoxy will work too but will
probably drip and sag a good bit.


regards

paul oman
progressive epoxy polymers
----




















--


"Living on Earth is expensive, but it does include
a free trip around the Sun every year."


============================================
PAUL OMAN Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc.
Frog Pond Hollow - 48 Wildwood Drive
Pittsfield NH 03263
10:30-3:30 Monday-Thur EST 603-435-7199
VISA/MC/Discover/Paypal

http://www.epoxyproducts.com
============================================

To me, 'barrier coat' means a coating intended to be seriously impermable in
continuous immersion and an effective barrier against osmotic blistering. I
don't think that there's disagreement that 404/414 is an OK primer under LPU
paints for topsides and intermittent immersion. One thing it's not is
impermeable. It's so loaded with solvents that it's quite porous.
The best guide is the pamphlets published by the paint manufacturers. In
them, they do a pretty good job of descrtibing the 'systems' of coatings,
from bottom to top. They're not ambiguous.


"Brian D" wrote in message
...

I'm curious ...I gave away my last bit of 404/414 so don't have a label to
read, but who's description was misleading? Interlux's? Or was the
description ambiguous instead? You know ...poorly written and could apply
equally well to more than one (conflicting) type of use? Have you called
the rep and told him about your experiences? Might save some newbies
headaches later on if the labels were clearer... Most companies won't want
you to be unhappy because a product was used for the wrong type of
application.

Brian


"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message
...
Thank you all for your comments.

For the record, I ended up thinning it about 20% with alcohol. This
worked
well as far as thinning is concerned, but the alcohol apparently
evaporates too fast. It is impossible for the brush strokes to flow out
well. So -- more sanding. The good news is that it finds, and with
persistence, fills -- or at least coats -- about every pin hole in the
resin base. It dries quickly and appears to sand well. I am actually
using
it as a primer under Interprotect 2000 BTW.

This is the second time I have purchased Interlux products which have
been
described as applicable to things I later found out they were not truly
suitable for.

BS

"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message
...
Just for the record, Jim, the can is labeled Epoxy Barrier-Kote. And
the
catalog describes is as suitable for above or below water applications.
The directions also state that it must be thinned.

Thanks for your thoughts.

BS

"Jim Conlin" wrote in message
...
Interlux 404/414 is not a barrier coat. It's a sandable primer whose
function is to provide a tie coat between sime substrate and an
impervious
finish coat such as an LPU paint. If applied as directed, it's just
loaded
with expensive solvents and is consequently pretty porous. Useless
under
bottom paint. If you are using it as a primer under finish paint and
not
under bottom paint, go for it. I'd try acetone. Let us know your
result.

"Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message
...
Can I successfully use acetone to thin epoxy barrier coats? I am
thinking
of
Interlux 404/414 in particular, but the question is also a general
one.

I am aware that there are proprietary products for this application,
but I
need to paint tomorrow morning, and the nearest dealer is about 60
miles
away.

Bob Swarts