You might be right, Paul, but there is a couple of key things about the
404/414 that's important. Whatever kind of epoxy is in it apparently
doesn't 'care' (chemically) about what kind of paint you put on top. Plain
boat building epoxies that risk amines being on the surface (I forget the
proper name for the type ...it includes your no-blush I believe) often
prevent alkyd enamels from curing. Regardless of what's in the 404/414, it
works and that's the bottom line. At least I haven't discovered a paint
that doesn't stick to it well. As the first guy pointed out, it can be
confusing if you read the label and assume it's for under the waterline and
would waterproof the boat under the paint. The other thing that's nice
about the 404/414 is the high bodies and sandability. It has a LOT more
stuff in it than other so-called high-body primers and as a result works
much better for hiding minor sanding scratches and defects. It sands out
nice without requiring you to kill yourself for it.

So sure, call it a solvent filled cheap epoxy if you want ...but do you have
an even cheaper solvent-filled cheap epoxy-based primer that works as well
for primering under most any paint you want AND is high-build and fairs the
boat nicely? Suggestions are welcome... I'd be happy to test your product
side-by-side with the 404/414 and see if you're right.

Brian


"Paul Oman" wrote in message
nk.net...
Jim Conlin wrote:

*RTFC!*
The label on the can of Interlux 404 which is on my desk identifies its
ingredients:
*epoxy resin*
xylene
titanium dioxide
magnesium silicate
methyl isoamyl ketone
The can of 414 indicates:
*polyamide resin*
aromatic petroleum solvent
tri(dimethyllaminomethyl)phenol
methyl n-amyl ketone
silica
The two ingredients formatted bold are, together, an epoxy resin system.
The same ingredients are listed, by somewhat more technically specific
names, on the interlux web site.


--------------------

Yes - so it is just a solvent thinned, pigmented, cheap epoxy........ No
doubt everyone pays big $$$ for them to add the solvent into an epoxy.


Paul Oman
progressive epoxy polymers

Brian -


have you tried "old fashion oil based/solvent based" 1 part primers in
comparison? Epoxy based primers are becoming more common, but even these
old "oil primers' work well under LPU coatings.

I'll have to get some 404/414 primer and do some tests too. Can we swop
some products?

paul
progressive epoxy polymers



Brian D wrote:

You might be right, Paul, but there is a couple of key things about the
404/414 that's important. Whatever kind of epoxy is in it apparently
doesn't 'care' (chemically) about what kind of paint you put on top. Plain
boat building epoxies that risk amines being on the surface (I forget the
proper name for the type ...it includes your no-blush I believe) often
prevent alkyd enamels from curing. Regardless of what's in the 404/414, it
works and that's the bottom line. At least I haven't discovered a paint
that doesn't stick to it well. As the first guy pointed out, it can be
confusing if you read the label and assume it's for under the waterline and
would waterproof the boat under the paint. The other thing that's nice
about the 404/414 is the high bodies and sandability. It has a LOT more
stuff in it than other so-called high-body primers and as a result works
much better for hiding minor sanding scratches and defects. It sands out
nice without requiring you to kill yourself for it.

So sure, call it a solvent filled cheap epoxy if you want ...but do you have
an even cheaper solvent-filled cheap epoxy-based primer that works as well
for primering under most any paint you want AND is high-build and fairs the
boat nicely? Suggestions are welcome... I'd be happy to test your product
side-by-side with the 404/414 and see if you're right.

Brian


"Paul Oman" wrote in message
ink.net...


Jim Conlin wrote:



*RTFC!*
The label on the can of Interlux 404 which is on my desk identifies its
ingredients:
*epoxy resin*
xylene
titanium dioxide
magnesium silicate
methyl isoamyl ketone
The can of 414 indicates:
*polyamide resin*
aromatic petroleum solvent
tri(dimethyllaminomethyl)phenol
methyl n-amyl ketone
silica
The two ingredients formatted bold are, together, an epoxy resin system.
The same ingredients are listed, by somewhat more technically specific
names, on the interlux web site.



--------------------

Yes - so it is just a solvent thinned, pigmented, cheap epoxy........ No
doubt everyone pays big $$$ for them to add the solvent into an epoxy.


Paul Oman
progressive epoxy polymers








--


"Living on Earth is expensive, but it does include
a free trip around the Sun every year."


============================================
PAUL OMAN Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc.
Frog Pond Hollow - 48 Wildwood Drive
Pittsfield NH 03263
10:30-3:30 Monday-Thur EST 603-435-7199
VISA/MC/Discover/Paypal

http://www.epoxyproducts.com
============================================

I've had LPU paints alligator alkyd (oil) paints. Only a few don't.

404/414 costs maybe $20/qt.
Paul , someone who was seriously in business could afford that.

"Paul Oman" wrote in message
ink.net...
Brian -


have you tried "old fashion oil based/solvent based" 1 part primers in
comparison? Epoxy based primers are becoming more common, but even these
old "oil primers' work well under LPU coatings.

I'll have to get some 404/414 primer and do some tests too. Can we swop
some products?

paul
progressive epoxy polymers



Brian D wrote:

You might be right, Paul, but there is a couple of key things about the
404/414 that's important. Whatever kind of epoxy is in it apparently
doesn't 'care' (chemically) about what kind of paint you put on top.
Plain
boat building epoxies that risk amines being on the surface (I forget the
proper name for the type ...it includes your no-blush I believe) often
prevent alkyd enamels from curing. Regardless of what's in the 404/414,
it
works and that's the bottom line. At least I haven't discovered a paint
that doesn't stick to it well. As the first guy pointed out, it can be
confusing if you read the label and assume it's for under the waterline
and
would waterproof the boat under the paint. The other thing that's nice
about the 404/414 is the high bodies and sandability. It has a LOT more
stuff in it than other so-called high-body primers and as a result works
much better for hiding minor sanding scratches and defects. It sands out
nice without requiring you to kill yourself for it.

So sure, call it a solvent filled cheap epoxy if you want ...but do you
have
an even cheaper solvent-filled cheap epoxy-based primer that works as
well
for primering under most any paint you want AND is high-build and fairs
the
boat nicely? Suggestions are welcome... I'd be happy to test your
product
side-by-side with the 404/414 and see if you're right.

Brian


"Paul Oman" wrote in message
ink.net...


Jim Conlin wrote:



*RTFC!*
The label on the can of Interlux 404 which is on my desk identifies
its
ingredients:
*epoxy resin*
xylene
titanium dioxide
magnesium silicate
methyl isoamyl ketone
The can of 414 indicates:
*polyamide resin*
aromatic petroleum solvent
tri(dimethyllaminomethyl)phenol
methyl n-amyl ketone
silica
The two ingredients formatted bold are, together, an epoxy resin
system.
The same ingredients are listed, by somewhat more technically specific
names, on the interlux web site.



--------------------

Yes - so it is just a solvent thinned, pigmented, cheap epoxy........ No
doubt everyone pays big $$$ for them to add the solvent into an epoxy.


Paul Oman
progressive epoxy polymers








--


"Living on Earth is expensive, but it does include
a free trip around the Sun every year."


============================================
PAUL OMAN Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc.
Frog Pond Hollow - 48 Wildwood Drive
Pittsfield NH 03263
10:30-3:30 Monday-Thur EST 603-435-7199
VISA/MC/Discover/Paypal

http://www.epoxyproducts.com
============================================

Robert or Karen Swarts wrote:

In the case of the 404/414, the can is labeled in bold print "Epoxy
Barrier-Kote".

In the case of Interlux's Epiglass epoxy, the ad in Boaters World catalog
describes it as a two-part, high build primer suitable as a coating where
gelcoat has been removed. I called Boaters World and they assured me the ad
was written by Interlux. I called Interlux's tech line and they said that
was not an appropriate application and didn't understand why it was
described as such.

.................




Just for the record, Jim, the can is labeled Epoxy Barrier-Kote. And the
catalog describes is as suitable for above or below water applications.
The directions also state that it must be thinned.

-----------------


Interlux 404/414 is not a barrier coat. It's a sandable primer whose
function is to provide a tie coat between sime substrate and an
impervious
finish coat such as an LPU paint. If applied as directed, it's just
loaded
with expensive solvents and is consequently pretty porous. Useless
under
bottom paint. If you are using it as a primer under finish paint and
not
under bottom paint, go for it. I'd try acetone. Let us know your
result.

"R

-----------



A few things worth noting (I'm a marine and industrial epoxy vendor)...

no such thing as expensive solvents (relative to the epoxies) ----

All of our epoxy primers are essentially just solvent thinned epoxy. You
can add about 1 pint of solvent to 1 gal of resin (not including the
curing agent) before you begin to 'damage' the epoxy, but for many
applications no problem with using even a lot more solvent.

no problem with adding solvent to any sort of barrier coat epoxy.
Barrier coat epoxy is generally just industrial epoxy paint (resin plus
pigment plus a thixo agent). Regular marine epoxy will work too but will
probably drip and sag a good bit.


regards

paul oman
progressive epoxy polymers
----




















--


"Living on Earth is expensive, but it does include
a free trip around the Sun every year."


============================================
PAUL OMAN Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc.
Frog Pond Hollow - 48 Wildwood Drive
Pittsfield NH 03263
10:30-3:30 Monday-Thur EST 603-435-7199
VISA/MC/Discover/Paypal

http://www.epoxyproducts.com
============================================