That's all right - we're all used to being commie pinkos up here. Probably
due to having nothing to do all winter but huddle inside the igloos while
the arctic wolves and polar bears prowl outside. Lousy boating weather
grin

P.S. - finally the snow's almost gone in Southern Ontario!!!!

--
Andrew Butchart



"Brian D" wrote in message
...

Thanks. Hope I didn't come across too strongly. Now that I'm off my
"choose to succeed and do it in a free society" podium, I'll admit that
the
US has gained much from it's economic and political strong-arming. That's
not so right ...better to play the ball than the field. I wish everyone
had
a free government, free people, and a free market-driven capitalistic
society ...they'd be able to fight the strong-arming much more
effectively.

Brian


"William R. Watt" wrote in message
...

"Brian D" ) writes:
Spoken like a true Canadian socialist who's never experience a truly
free
capitalist society where innovation and free market rule are what
provide
people with their life's dreams. I would recommend that you try it
before
you judge it.

I've been fighting Canadian socialism for most of my adult life.


And if you are going to spout off about labor, let's get this straight
...we
agree. But you have to clarify your statement and say UNION labor.

Up here that's mostly PUBLIC SECTOR UNION labour, and with 18% of the
Ontario workforce in the public sector they command a lot of votes. It's
what comes from socialism, ie public ownership, and public control of
private property. Unlike the US we do not have private property
protection
in our constitution.

I hope the US pulls through. You've been carrying the cost of global
peace
for quite a while. Everyone expects the Yanks, among other things, to
patrol the seas and oceans and pay the cost. Before them it was the
Brits
who also charted the seas and oceans at public expense for future
generations of boatbuilders. But when the Brits asked the Yanks to help
pay
the cost the Yanks got ****ed of and revolted. The Yanks have been
smarter, paying for foreign goods in US dollars and them devaluing the
dollar.


--

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"Andrew Butchart" ) writes:

P.S. - finally the snow's almost gone in Southern Ontario!!!!

I was out paddling a new plywood box last week.
Jock River canoe race this Saturday (Ottawa).

--
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homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
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Bateaubois wrote:
Roger Derby a écrit :
Sounds like the typical government: take the person's money, count
it, ask him to say "May I" and then give some of it back.

Why do we have armies of accountants to compute income tax on
government employees? The money just goes in a circle with a little
skim for the administrators.

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

Yes and we like it this way...
We'd rather have our money usefully used by the govt to build public
schools (free), universities(free), hospitals (70% free), roads (Every
road is tarred and maintained here..),librairies (free), highways
(taxed, but worth it, these are the best quality highways in Europe,
perfectly maintained, fine rest areas, gas station every 20 miles,
etc.), etc.. than have it going to a few billionaires at the head of
zaibatsus for worse purposes.. ;-)


AND, the food is better

--

Geoff

On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 22:42:52 -0700, "Brian D"
wrote something
.......and in reply I say!:

Troll is supposed to be an insult. In your case, the only other option
is that you are serious. Troll sounds good.

************************************************** ****************************************
Whenever you have to prove to yourself that you are
not something, you probably are.

Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

!!
")
_/ )
( )
_//- \__/

That's exactly the same rationalization we heard from Mussolini's followers
in the 1930s.

Vive Il Duce! The trains run on time.

Wasn't it the Russian slaves that rioted when the Tsar freed them? They
liked their freedom from responsibility.

Roger TAAFL

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Bateaubois" wrote in message
...

Roger Derby a écrit :
Sounds like the typical government: take the person's money, count it,
ask him to say "May I" and then give some of it back.

Yes and we like it this way...
We'd rather have our money usefully used by the govt to build public
schools (free), universities(free), hospitals (70% free), roads (Every
road is tarred and maintained here..),librairies (free), highways (taxed,
but worth it, these are the best quality highways in Europe, perfectly
maintained, fine rest areas, gas station every 20 miles, etc.), etc.. than
have it going to a few billionaires at the head of zaibatsus for worse
purposes.. ;-)

GeoffC a écrit :

Bateaubois wrote:

Roger Derby a écrit :

Sounds like the typical government: take the person's money, count
it, ask him to say "May I" and then give some of it back.

Why do we have armies of accountants to compute income tax on
government employees? The money just goes in a circle with a little
skim for the administrators.

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm


Yes and we like it this way...
We'd rather have our money usefully used by the govt to build public
schools (free), universities(free), hospitals (70% free), roads (Every
road is tarred and maintained here..),librairies (free), highways
(taxed, but worth it, these are the best quality highways in Europe,
perfectly maintained, fine rest areas, gas station every 20 miles,
etc.), etc.. than have it going to a few billionaires at the head of
zaibatsus for worse purposes.. ;-)



AND, the food is better

--

Geoff


MUCH better, I'd say ;-)


--
Phil

Roger Derby a écrit :

That's exactly the same rationalization we heard from Mussolini's followers
in the 1930s.

Vive Il Duce! The trains run on time.

Wasn't it the Russian slaves that rioted when the Tsar freed them? They
liked their freedom from responsibility.

Roger TAAFL

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Bateaubois" wrote in message
...


Roger Derby a écrit :

Sounds like the typical government: take the person's money, count it,
ask him to say "May I" and then give some of it back.


Yes and we like it this way...
We'd rather have our money usefully used by the govt to build public
schools (free), universities(free), hospitals (70% free), roads (Every
road is tarred and maintained here..),librairies (free), highways (taxed,
but worth it, these are the best quality highways in Europe, perfectly
maintained, fine rest areas, gas station every 20 miles, etc.), etc.. than
have it going to a few billionaires at the head of zaibatsus for worse
purposes.. ;-)



I guess you've been a McCarthy's fan in your young days, huh ? ;-)

Ah, I forgot, we do not have patriot acts nor Ashcrofts here, but whe
have vote for all, no voting machines, no chetaed polls, freedom of
cult, full separation between religion and power, and thousands of years
of history to help us to make our mind on what is democracy... Are we
soviets ? :-)

Phil

Sounds better than I thought in France. And the food's good. How's the
fishing?

Brian


"Bateaubois" wrote in message
...
Brian D a écrit :
Are you in France? Doesn't sound so bad to me. Others that I've spoken
to had quite a different story to tell, so it must vary a lot country by
country I'd say. Using your 1.3 ratio BTW, my wife and I have a joint
income of $130K Euros and this is not unusual ...but our combined tax
rate (fed plus state) is around 35%. Our social security will dissolve
before we get there (or will reduce in benefits, increase in age
requirement, etc ...same thing as 'going away'). If our retirement keeps
on like it has (it includes world wide investments for diversity and
growth), then our income will remain unchanged when we retire and we'll
have medical at the same rate. Sounds like you and I are doing very much
the same, maybe you are doing a bit better. In this country, I'd say we
are middle to upper-middle class. Not tooo upper though. Just OK. We
don't drive Mercedes... Dodge and Chevy is more like it.

Yes, there is no paradise for sure, but freedom to succeed on your own is
a huge factor that should never be taken away from people.

Brian

You're right, I'm in France. Of course income and taxes may vary a lot
from countries to countries in Europe too.. UK taxes are far Higher for
instance. The intersting thing here is that Social security as
unemployment insurance is mandatory and directly cut from your wages. It
refunds 70% of your medical costs, and you can subscribe to a private
complement for 30 euros a month that brings it to 100% for all medical
costs.. The interesting thing is that it is taken to the source, so when I
get a 50K income, it is after all those insurances are paid, no need to
pay further.. and unemployment refunding , although it is 57% of you
salary is calculated on a 365 days a year basis.. so if you got 50 K for
12 months based on days worked (12x20 days), you'll be paid on a 30x12
days basis.. for instance, for a 50K income, you'll get a 42.75 K income
during 3 years if unemployed during this time..
Retirement is paid partly by the social security, and partly by private
companies to whom you have to subscribe when you work (all costs are also
cut at the source) and retirement wages may vary from 80% to 100% of your
salary depending on which private retirement funds you have chosen to
subscribe while you were active. Social security applies event when you
are retired and you will in any case get at least 70% refunded.
In this country lower middle class is usually around 50K a year for a
family although upper middle class is from 60K to 150K.. But i can comfort
you.. only a very few drive bmw or Mercedes in this class, at 40 to 100K a
bit, they are way to expensive even for a higher middle class family..
most of us drive Renault, Peugeot or Citroen cars (dodge or chevy
equivalent here). ;-) French people rather invest in stone than in cars
and most families try to have a vacation house in the countryside or at
the sea which becomes their everyday's home when they get retired..

Phil.

Especially in Leon.

Brian



"GeoffC" wrote in message
...
Bateaubois wrote:
Roger Derby a écrit :
Sounds like the typical government: take the person's money, count
it, ask him to say "May I" and then give some of it back.

Why do we have armies of accountants to compute income tax on
government employees? The money just goes in a circle with a little
skim for the administrators.

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

Yes and we like it this way...
We'd rather have our money usefully used by the govt to build public
schools (free), universities(free), hospitals (70% free), roads (Every
road is tarred and maintained here..),librairies (free), highways
(taxed, but worth it, these are the best quality highways in Europe,
perfectly maintained, fine rest areas, gas station every 20 miles,
etc.), etc.. than have it going to a few billionaires at the head of
zaibatsus for worse purposes.. ;-)


AND, the food is better

--

Geoff

And if you buy the plat de jour while traveling, not so expensive either.
And then there's always cheese, bread, and grapes picnicked on the trunk of
the car. Did that in east France while looking at cows, who were looking at
me. That was about 5 minutes from Switzerland ...another great place to
drive around (or ride a bike).

Brian



"Bateaubois" wrote in message
...
GeoffC a écrit :

Bateaubois wrote:

Roger Derby a écrit :

Sounds like the typical government: take the person's money, count
it, ask him to say "May I" and then give some of it back.

Why do we have armies of accountants to compute income tax on
government employees? The money just goes in a circle with a little
skim for the administrators.

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm


Yes and we like it this way...
We'd rather have our money usefully used by the govt to build public
schools (free), universities(free), hospitals (70% free), roads (Every
road is tarred and maintained here..),librairies (free), highways
(taxed, but worth it, these are the best quality highways in Europe,
perfectly maintained, fine rest areas, gas station every 20 miles,
etc.), etc.. than have it going to a few billionaires at the head of
zaibatsus for worse purposes.. ;-)



AND, the food is better

--

Geoff


MUCH better, I'd say ;-)


--
Phil