Don't worry ...France is already lost to the Muslims. Enjoy what you have
while you have it. France will be the first Muslim country in Europe
(ignoring of course the hostile takeover of the Iberian peninsula during the
2nd Great Jihad ...you know, the thing those terrible Christian Crusades
pushed back off the peninsula after they got tired of the oppression... )

Brian



"Bateaubois" wrote in message
...
Roger Derby a écrit :

That's exactly the same rationalization we heard from Mussolini's
followers in the 1930s.

Vive Il Duce! The trains run on time.

Wasn't it the Russian slaves that rioted when the Tsar freed them? They
liked their freedom from responsibility.

Roger TAAFL

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Bateaubois" wrote in message
...


Roger Derby a écrit :

Sounds like the typical government: take the person's money, count it,
ask him to say "May I" and then give some of it back.


Yes and we like it this way...
We'd rather have our money usefully used by the govt to build public
schools (free), universities(free), hospitals (70% free), roads (Every
road is tarred and maintained here..),librairies (free), highways (taxed,
but worth it, these are the best quality highways in Europe, perfectly
maintained, fine rest areas, gas station every 20 miles, etc.), etc..
than have it going to a few billionaires at the head of zaibatsus for
worse purposes.. ;-)



I guess you've been a McCarthy's fan in your young days, huh ? ;-)

Ah, I forgot, we do not have patriot acts nor Ashcrofts here, but whe have
vote for all, no voting machines, no chetaed polls, freedom of cult, full
separation between religion and power, and thousands of years of history
to help us to make our mind on what is democracy... Are we soviets ? :-)

Phil

I might be serious and I might not be. Pay attention ...I might be having
sport in dialectic rhetoric too. Can you tell when? People _should_ have
these types of conversations.

Brian



"Old Nick" wrote in message
news:42553bca.17498903@localhost...
On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 22:42:52 -0700, "Brian D"
wrote something
......and in reply I say!:

Troll is supposed to be an insult. In your case, the only other option
is that you are serious. Troll sounds good.

************************************************** ****************************************
Whenever you have to prove to yourself that you are
not something, you probably are.

Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

!!
")
_/ )
( )
_//- \__/

Brian D a écrit :

Sounds better than I thought in France. And the food's good. How's the
fishing?

Brian
Fine, we have a lot of wonderful trout rivers here.. ;-)

Phil.

Brian D a écrit :

Don't worry ...France is already lost to the Muslims. Enjoy what you have
while you have it. France will be the first Muslim country in Europe
(ignoring of course the hostile takeover of the Iberian peninsula during the
2nd Great Jihad ...you know, the thing those terrible Christian Crusades
pushed back off the peninsula after they got tired of the oppression... )

Brian

Brian,

I think you have a very disformed sight of the way we treat this point..
We've been dealing with muslim people for over a century, when they were
colonized, and we are very far from the day there will be more mosks in
France than churches... there has been a process of integration for the
twenty last years and the muslims we have (of course there are always a
few individual nutters, but they are quickly expelled when discovered)
are quite tepid believers. You have to understand that we are not a
religious nation, and that most of churches (or temples, there is a
small part of protestant people too) are half empty if not totally on
sunday mornings. Laicity is one of the basis of our constitution and
everybody is living his beliefs the way he wants, as long as it does not
interfere with politics. We have a very pragmatic point of view with
religious problems.. we'd rather integrate people to the society than
try to hammer our point of view into their head..
We don't send preachers to middle east countries to try to convert
'heathens' to good christians.. we are as pragmatic as you are
passionate, and because history has taught us not to repeat our errors
of the twenty last centuries, we are no crusaders any more..
There is no 'jesusland' here and there will not be any 'Allahsland' any
more in the future..judeo-christian culture is anyway to much anchored
in minds to ever allow this.. We are not warm believers, but our culture
is too much tinted with christinanity and its principles to allow France
to ever become a muslim country
And btw there are much more muslims in Germany or UK than in France that
has seriously limited its immigration for 20 years.
On our point of view the country that gives us a real problem with
muslims is UK where very placable legislation give a true shelter to
integrists and potential terrorists (for instance they hold for over a
decade identified terrorists implicated in attempts in France in the 80s
and definitely refuse to deliver them to French justice to be trialed ..
did you know that ?)..have you seen on TV those mollahs preaching jihad
in the streets of London ? Such things are unthinkable here, they'd be
expelled in a day, we have legal emergency procedures to do so..

No, I definitely think you have a sight of France which is widely
disformed by some kind of official propaganda..come and visit us, make
your own mind on the way people live here, you'll be very surprised and
I bet you'll come back with a very different point of view..
You'll see a country with tremendous landscapes, freedom to go wherever
you want without being filed, freedom of speech, excellent and natural
food, harbours full of wonderful sailboats, wonderful trout rivers, very
few large cities, over 2000 years of monuments (the city near which I
live has the best preserved roman coliseum in the world, as the best
preserved isis temple, both are 2200 years old..), and a very cool way
of living...in the spirit of the human rights declaration we wrote over
3 centuries ago..

Cheers,

Phil.

Brian, you're doing something wrong. 35% may be your incremental tax
rate, but with a similar income, my actual (paid) rate is below 15% (state
and fed). (divide "total tax" by AGI)


?? How do you manage that? The effective or actual tax rate for lower
incomes is still around 20%.

You're are way above "middle" class!


At $130K income, yes. By a factor of 2.


Brian D wrote:
Ooops, yes. You're right. The last increment of pay is what gets taxed at
that rate. I'll have to look and see what the net is.

Our net income tax rate, state & federal, is around 31%. That doesn't
include lost income from pre-payment of taxes, or local tax, property
tax, state sales tax (7% in NC, it was at 7.5% and will soon go back
up), etc etc.

I am not in favor of paying high taxes nor in favor of the gov't wasting
my money, but I *am* very definitely against people lying for some
political gain.

DSK

In a nutshell, it's "live and let live ...until you threaten to violate
someone's rights, then you're outta here!" The hard part there is, and you
said you have no "patriot act" is how to tell when someone is threatening to
violate someone else's human rights. The guy preaching bad things in the
street is easy to spot, but how do you spot and capture those that are
planning behind closed doors? I've heard Muslim leaders already state that
they'll take France, and continue on to say they'll take all of Europe
....through the womb if necessary. Comments?

Brian



"Bateaubois" wrote in message
...
Brian D a écrit :

Don't worry ...France is already lost to the Muslims. Enjoy what you
have while you have it. France will be the first Muslim country in
Europe (ignoring of course the hostile takeover of the Iberian peninsula
during the 2nd Great Jihad ...you know, the thing those terrible
Christian Crusades pushed back off the peninsula after they got tired of
the oppression... )

Brian

Brian,

I think you have a very disformed sight of the way we treat this point..
We've been dealing with muslim people for over a century, when they were
colonized, and we are very far from the day there will be more mosks in
France than churches... there has been a process of integration for the
twenty last years and the muslims we have (of course there are always a
few individual nutters, but they are quickly expelled when discovered)
are quite tepid believers. You have to understand that we are not a
religious nation, and that most of churches (or temples, there is a
small part of protestant people too) are half empty if not totally on
sunday mornings. Laicity is one of the basis of our constitution and
everybody is living his beliefs the way he wants, as long as it does not
interfere with politics. We have a very pragmatic point of view with
religious problems.. we'd rather integrate people to the society than
try to hammer our point of view into their head..
We don't send preachers to middle east countries to try to convert
'heathens' to good christians.. we are as pragmatic as you are
passionate, and because history has taught us not to repeat our errors
of the twenty last centuries, we are no crusaders any more..
There is no 'jesusland' here and there will not be any 'Allahsland' any
more in the future..judeo-christian culture is anyway to much anchored
in minds to ever allow this.. We are not warm believers, but our culture
is too much tinted with christinanity and its principles to allow France
to ever become a muslim country
And btw there are much more muslims in Germany or UK than in France that
has seriously limited its immigration for 20 years.
On our point of view the country that gives us a real problem with
muslims is UK where very placable legislation give a true shelter to
integrists and potential terrorists (for instance they hold for over a
decade identified terrorists implicated in attempts in France in the 80s
and definitely refuse to deliver them to French justice to be trialed ..
did you know that ?)..have you seen on TV those mollahs preaching jihad
in the streets of London ? Such things are unthinkable here, they'd be
expelled in a day, we have legal emergency procedures to do so..

No, I definitely think you have a sight of France which is widely
disformed by some kind of official propaganda..come and visit us, make
your own mind on the way people live here, you'll be very surprised and
I bet you'll come back with a very different point of view..
You'll see a country with tremendous landscapes, freedom to go wherever
you want without being filed, freedom of speech, excellent and natural
food, harbours full of wonderful sailboats, wonderful trout rivers, very
few large cities, over 2000 years of monuments (the city near which I
live has the best preserved roman coliseum in the world, as the best
preserved isis temple, both are 2200 years old..), and a very cool way
of living...in the spirit of the human rights declaration we wrote over
3 centuries ago..

Cheers,

Phil.

"Brian D" ) writes:
In a nutshell, it's "live and let live ...until you threaten to violate
someone's rights, then you're outta here!" The hard part there is, and you
said you have no "patriot act" is how to tell when someone is threatening to
violate someone else's human rights. The guy preaching bad things in the
street is easy to spot, but how do you spot and capture those that are
planning behind closed doors? I've heard Muslim leaders already state that
they'll take France, and continue on to say they'll take all of Europe
...through the womb if necessary. Comments?

Yes, I appologize all to hell and back for posting a political comment in
the boatbuilder's newsgroup and sincerley hope this thread will die so the
newsgroup does not become one big political discussion like rec.boats.paddle
has done.

I'd apprecitate it enormoulsy if people would post no more articles in this
thread.

And I promise never to post a political comment in rec.boats.building
again. Ever.



--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

Honestly, I'm not sure. Check your own numbers. That 20% is on taxable
income, not AGI.

When you're retired and living on investments and pensions, your income is
what you choose it to be, but I've not played any games that way. I do
choose tax-free investments where possible and preferred things such as
dividend income funds, but then that's what the tax code is all about --
directing people's investments. If the government wants me to loan my money
to local school districts as opposed to corporations, it's OK if it's
profitable.

"Standard Deduction." No games there. I just put the numbers into TurboTax
and take what comes out as the number on my check.

I first noticed the low rate (as opposed to my perceptions) a few years ago.

Regarding the lost income by "withholding," I've been paying the
under-withheld penalty for most years recently. That's one that's worth
figuring out and adjusting.

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Brian, you're doing something wrong. 35% may be your incremental tax
rate, but with a similar income, my actual (paid) rate is below 15%
(state and fed). (divide "total tax" by AGI)


?? How do you manage that? The effective or actual tax rate for lower
incomes is still around 20%.

William R. Watt a écrit :
"Brian D" ) writes:

In a nutshell, it's "live and let live ...until you threaten to violate
someone's rights, then you're outta here!" The hard part there is, and you
said you have no "patriot act" is how to tell when someone is threatening to
violate someone else's human rights. The guy preaching bad things in the
street is easy to spot, but how do you spot and capture those that are
planning behind closed doors? I've heard Muslim leaders already state that
they'll take France, and continue on to say they'll take all of Europe
...through the womb if necessary. Comments?
Let'em try.. ;-)


Yes, I appologize all to hell and back for posting a political comment in
the boatbuilder's newsgroup and sincerley hope this thread will die so the
newsgroup does not become one big political discussion like rec.boats.paddle
has done.

I'd apprecitate it enormoulsy if people would post no more articles in this
thread.

And I promise never to post a political comment in rec.boats.building
again. Ever.


Agreed ;-)

Hey, Doug,

I tried to respond off list, but your domain of "dontbotherme" bounced.

Sorry, group.

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Brian, you're doing something wrong. 35% may be your incremental tax
rate, but with a similar income, my actual (paid) rate is below 15%
(state and fed). (divide "total tax" by AGI)


?? How do you manage that? The effective or actual tax rate for lower
incomes is still around 20%.

You're are way above "middle" class!


At $130K income, yes. By a factor of 2.


Brian D wrote:
Ooops, yes. You're right. The last increment of pay is what gets taxed
at that rate. I'll have to look and see what the net is.

Our net income tax rate, state & federal, is around 31%. That doesn't
include lost income from pre-payment of taxes, or local tax, property tax,
state sales tax (7% in NC, it was at 7.5% and will soon go back up), etc
etc.

I am not in favor of paying high taxes nor in favor of the gov't wasting
my money, but I *am* very definitely against people lying for some
political gain.

DSK