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#21
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"Brian D" wrote in message ... By the way?? How is that Chinese ply? kevin |
#22
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Are you in France? Doesn't sound so bad to me. Others that I've spoken to
had quite a different story to tell, so it must vary a lot country by country I'd say. Using your 1.3 ratio BTW, my wife and I have a joint income of $130K Euros and this is not unusual ...but our combined tax rate (fed plus state) is around 35%. Our social security will dissolve before we get there (or will reduce in benefits, increase in age requirement, etc ....same thing as 'going away'). If our retirement keeps on like it has (it includes world wide investments for diversity and growth), then our income will remain unchanged when we retire and we'll have medical at the same rate. Sounds like you and I are doing very much the same, maybe you are doing a bit better. In this country, I'd say we are middle to upper-middle class. Not tooo upper though. Just OK. We don't drive Mercedes... Dodge and Chevy is more like it. Yes, there is no paradise for sure, but freedom to succeed on your own is a huge factor that should never be taken away from people. Brian "Bateaubois" wrote in message ... You prefer Europe? What do you have to come up with as a down payment for a real house on a real piece of land? 50%? More? And how much does that house cost? How long, at your current income and tax rate does it take to save that much money? What is your current tax rate? Over 50%? That's not success... Yes I do.. I have a 50K (Euros, 1.3US$) income, My wife has a 30K, I own a lovely house among pinetrees on the riviera, etc.. AND I have social security a 100%, Unemployment protection (57% on 3 years in case), Only VAT on merchandises (no local sales taxes), and my tax rate is 19.61 % (I paid it 2 days ago..).. not a penny more.. And I'm only an upper middle class man.. not a "happy few"... Many people here earn that much and taxes are lowering from year to year due to the willing of our goverment (It prefers to overtax foreign companies ;-) I won't learn to a US citizen what protectionism is ;-) ) Of course there is poverty too, but the rate of people living under the UNO minimal vital income is far lower than in the US.. Of course You may love your country which is your absolute right (I should say is even almost a duty),as much as I love mine, but keep an eye open, paradise is not your country neither is it mine.. ;-) All this is propaganda stuff.. Cheers, Phil. |
#23
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Oh that? I dunno ...never bought any. Probably won't. The original poster
probably got scared away... Brian "Kevin Gunther" wrote in message ... "Brian D" wrote in message ... By the way?? How is that Chinese ply? kevin |
#24
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Brian, you're doing something wrong. 35% may be your incremental tax rate,
but with a similar income, my actual (paid) rate is below 15% (state and fed). (divide "total tax" by AGI) You're are way above "middle" class! I pulled that "middle class" line on my boss many years ago and was brought up sharp. If you read O'Brian (Aubrey/Maturin) you'll be told that no one ever admits to being either rich or asleep. (Just so there is some nautical reference to this discussion.) Roger (retired) http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm "Brian D" wrote in message ... but our combined tax rate (fed plus state) is around 35%. Our social security will dissolve before we get there (or will reduce in benefits, increase in age requirement, etc ...same thing as 'going away'). |
#25
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the age old solution is to build a baot an sail away from it all. I think if you register your boat in Holland you can write if off. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned |
#26
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Ooops, yes. You're right. The last increment of pay is what gets taxed at
that rate. I'll have to look and see what the net is. Brian D "Roger Derby" wrote in message nk.net... Brian, you're doing something wrong. 35% may be your incremental tax rate, but with a similar income, my actual (paid) rate is below 15% (state and fed). (divide "total tax" by AGI) You're are way above "middle" class! I pulled that "middle class" line on my boss many years ago and was brought up sharp. If you read O'Brian (Aubrey/Maturin) you'll be told that no one ever admits to being either rich or asleep. (Just so there is some nautical reference to this discussion.) Roger (retired) http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm "Brian D" wrote in message ... but our combined tax rate (fed plus state) is around 35%. Our social security will dissolve before we get there (or will reduce in benefits, increase in age requirement, etc ...same thing as 'going away'). |
#27
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I knew a guy in Anchorage, Alaska who tried to do that. He rigged a sail on
a big inner tube and tried to commit suicide by sailing out of Cook Inlet and into the big blue, to last until he died. Darn USCG picked him up halfway down the inlet. When I met him, he was glad he had the bad luck of getting spotted and called a fool. Now he's a psychology teacher ...go figure. Brian D "William R. Watt" wrote in message ... the age old solution is to build a baot an sail away from it all. I think if you register your boat in Holland you can write if off. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned |
#28
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Brian D a écrit :
Are you in France? Doesn't sound so bad to me. Others that I've spoken to had quite a different story to tell, so it must vary a lot country by country I'd say. Using your 1.3 ratio BTW, my wife and I have a joint income of $130K Euros and this is not unusual ...but our combined tax rate (fed plus state) is around 35%. Our social security will dissolve before we get there (or will reduce in benefits, increase in age requirement, etc ...same thing as 'going away'). If our retirement keeps on like it has (it includes world wide investments for diversity and growth), then our income will remain unchanged when we retire and we'll have medical at the same rate. Sounds like you and I are doing very much the same, maybe you are doing a bit better. In this country, I'd say we are middle to upper-middle class. Not tooo upper though. Just OK. We don't drive Mercedes... Dodge and Chevy is more like it. Yes, there is no paradise for sure, but freedom to succeed on your own is a huge factor that should never be taken away from people. Brian You're right, I'm in France. Of course income and taxes may vary a lot from countries to countries in Europe too.. UK taxes are far Higher for instance. The intersting thing here is that Social security as unemployment insurance is mandatory and directly cut from your wages. It refunds 70% of your medical costs, and you can subscribe to a private complement for 30 euros a month that brings it to 100% for all medical costs.. The interesting thing is that it is taken to the source, so when I get a 50K income, it is after all those insurances are paid, no need to pay further.. and unemployment refunding , although it is 57% of you salary is calculated on a 365 days a year basis.. so if you got 50 K for 12 months based on days worked (12x20 days), you'll be paid on a 30x12 days basis.. for instance, for a 50K income, you'll get a 42.75 K income during 3 years if unemployed during this time.. Retirement is paid partly by the social security, and partly by private companies to whom you have to subscribe when you work (all costs are also cut at the source) and retirement wages may vary from 80% to 100% of your salary depending on which private retirement funds you have chosen to subscribe while you were active. Social security applies event when you are retired and you will in any case get at least 70% refunded. In this country lower middle class is usually around 50K a year for a family although upper middle class is from 60K to 150K.. But i can comfort you.. only a very few drive bmw or Mercedes in this class, at 40 to 100K a bit, they are way to expensive even for a higher middle class family.. most of us drive Renault, Peugeot or Citroen cars (dodge or chevy equivalent here). ;-) French people rather invest in stone than in cars and most families try to have a vacation house in the countryside or at the sea which becomes their everyday's home when they get retired.. Phil. |
#29
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Sounds like the typical government: take the person's money, count it, ask
him to say "May I" and then give some of it back. Why do we have armies of accountants to compute income tax on government employees? The money just goes in a circle with a little skim for the administrators. Roger http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm "Bateaubois" wrote in message ... Brian D a écrit : Are you in France? Doesn't sound so bad to me. Others that I've spoken to had quite a different story to tell, so it must vary a lot country by country I'd say. Using your 1.3 ratio BTW, my wife and I have a joint income of $130K Euros and this is not unusual ...but our combined tax rate (fed plus state) is around 35%. Our social security will dissolve before we get there (or will reduce in benefits, increase in age requirement, etc ...same thing as 'going away'). If our retirement keeps on like it has (it includes world wide investments for diversity and growth), then our income will remain unchanged when we retire and we'll have medical at the same rate. Sounds like you and I are doing very much the same, maybe you are doing a bit better. In this country, I'd say we are middle to upper-middle class. Not tooo upper though. Just OK. We don't drive Mercedes... Dodge and Chevy is more like it. Yes, there is no paradise for sure, but freedom to succeed on your own is a huge factor that should never be taken away from people. Brian You're right, I'm in France. Of course income and taxes may vary a lot from countries to countries in Europe too.. UK taxes are far Higher for instance. The intersting thing here is that Social security as unemployment insurance is mandatory and directly cut from your wages. It refunds 70% of your medical costs, and you can subscribe to a private complement for 30 euros a month that brings it to 100% for all medical costs.. The interesting thing is that it is taken to the source, so when I get a 50K income, it is after all those insurances are paid, no need to pay further.. and unemployment refunding , although it is 57% of you salary is calculated on a 365 days a year basis.. so if you got 50 K for 12 months based on days worked (12x20 days), you'll be paid on a 30x12 days basis.. for instance, for a 50K income, you'll get a 42.75 K income during 3 years if unemployed during this time.. Retirement is paid partly by the social security, and partly by private companies to whom you have to subscribe when you work (all costs are also cut at the source) and retirement wages may vary from 80% to 100% of your salary depending on which private retirement funds you have chosen to subscribe while you were active. Social security applies event when you are retired and you will in any case get at least 70% refunded. In this country lower middle class is usually around 50K a year for a family although upper middle class is from 60K to 150K.. But i can comfort you.. only a very few drive bmw or Mercedes in this class, at 40 to 100K a bit, they are way to expensive even for a higher middle class family.. most of us drive Renault, Peugeot or Citroen cars (dodge or chevy equivalent here). ;-) French people rather invest in stone than in cars and most families try to have a vacation house in the countryside or at the sea which becomes their everyday's home when they get retired.. Phil. |
#30
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Roger Derby a écrit :
Sounds like the typical government: take the person's money, count it, ask him to say "May I" and then give some of it back. Why do we have armies of accountants to compute income tax on government employees? The money just goes in a circle with a little skim for the administrators. Roger http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm Yes and we like it this way... We'd rather have our money usefully used by the govt to build public schools (free), universities(free), hospitals (70% free), roads (Every road is tarred and maintained here..),librairies (free), highways (taxed, but worth it, these are the best quality highways in Europe, perfectly maintained, fine rest areas, gas station every 20 miles, etc.), etc.. than have it going to a few billionaires at the head of zaibatsus for worse purposes.. ;-) phil. |
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