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  #21   Report Post  
Kevin Gunther
 
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"Brian D" wrote in message
...


By the way??

How is that Chinese ply?

kevin


  #22   Report Post  
Brian D
 
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Are you in France? Doesn't sound so bad to me. Others that I've spoken to
had quite a different story to tell, so it must vary a lot country by
country I'd say. Using your 1.3 ratio BTW, my wife and I have a joint
income of $130K Euros and this is not unusual ...but our combined tax rate
(fed plus state) is around 35%. Our social security will dissolve before we
get there (or will reduce in benefits, increase in age requirement, etc
....same thing as 'going away'). If our retirement keeps on like it has (it
includes world wide investments for diversity and growth), then our income
will remain unchanged when we retire and we'll have medical at the same
rate. Sounds like you and I are doing very much the same, maybe you are
doing a bit better. In this country, I'd say we are middle to upper-middle
class. Not tooo upper though. Just OK. We don't drive Mercedes... Dodge
and Chevy is more like it.

Yes, there is no paradise for sure, but freedom to succeed on your own is a
huge factor that should never be taken away from people.

Brian


"Bateaubois" wrote in message
...

You prefer Europe? What do you have to come up with as a down payment
for a real house on a real piece of land? 50%? More? And how much does
that house cost? How long, at your current income and tax rate does it
take to save that much money? What is your current tax rate? Over 50%?
That's not success...

Yes I do.. I have a 50K (Euros, 1.3US$) income, My wife has a 30K, I own a
lovely house among pinetrees on the riviera, etc.. AND I have social
security a 100%, Unemployment protection (57% on 3 years in case), Only
VAT on merchandises (no local sales taxes), and my tax rate is 19.61 % (I
paid it 2 days ago..).. not a penny more..
And I'm only an upper middle class man.. not a "happy few"...
Many people here earn that much and taxes are lowering from year to year
due to the willing of our goverment (It prefers to overtax foreign
companies ;-) I won't learn to a US citizen what protectionism is ;-) )
Of course there is poverty too, but the rate of people living under the
UNO minimal vital income is far lower than in the US..
Of course You may love your country which is your absolute right (I should
say is even almost a duty),as much as I love mine, but keep an eye open,
paradise is not your country neither is it mine.. ;-) All this is
propaganda stuff..

Cheers,
Phil.



  #23   Report Post  
Brian D
 
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Oh that? I dunno ...never bought any. Probably won't. The original poster
probably got scared away...

Brian


"Kevin Gunther" wrote in message
...

"Brian D" wrote in message
...


By the way??

How is that Chinese ply?

kevin




  #24   Report Post  
Roger Derby
 
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Brian, you're doing something wrong. 35% may be your incremental tax rate,
but with a similar income, my actual (paid) rate is below 15% (state and
fed). (divide "total tax" by AGI)

You're are way above "middle" class!

I pulled that "middle class" line on my boss many years ago and was brought
up sharp. If you read O'Brian (Aubrey/Maturin) you'll be told that no one
ever admits to being either rich or asleep. (Just so there is some nautical
reference to this discussion.)

Roger (retired)

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Brian D" wrote in message
...

but our combined tax rate (fed plus state) is around 35%.
Our social security will dissolve before we get there (or
will reduce in benefits, increase in age requirement, etc ...same thing as
'going away').



  #25   Report Post  
William R. Watt
 
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the age old solution is to build a baot an sail away from it all.
I think if you register your boat in Holland you can write if off.


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  #26   Report Post  
Brian D
 
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Ooops, yes. You're right. The last increment of pay is what gets taxed at
that rate. I'll have to look and see what the net is.

Brian D



"Roger Derby" wrote in message
nk.net...
Brian, you're doing something wrong. 35% may be your incremental tax
rate, but with a similar income, my actual (paid) rate is below 15% (state
and fed). (divide "total tax" by AGI)

You're are way above "middle" class!

I pulled that "middle class" line on my boss many years ago and was
brought up sharp. If you read O'Brian (Aubrey/Maturin) you'll be told
that no one ever admits to being either rich or asleep. (Just so there is
some nautical reference to this discussion.)

Roger (retired)

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Brian D" wrote in message
...

but our combined tax rate (fed plus state) is around 35%.
Our social security will dissolve before we get there (or
will reduce in benefits, increase in age requirement, etc ...same thing
as 'going away').





  #27   Report Post  
Brian D
 
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I knew a guy in Anchorage, Alaska who tried to do that. He rigged a sail on
a big inner tube and tried to commit suicide by sailing out of Cook Inlet
and into the big blue, to last until he died. Darn USCG picked him up
halfway down the inlet. When I met him, he was glad he had the bad luck of
getting spotted and called a fool. Now he's a psychology teacher ...go
figure.

Brian D



"William R. Watt" wrote in message
...

the age old solution is to build a baot an sail away from it all.
I think if you register your boat in Holland you can write if off.


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community
network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned



  #28   Report Post  
Bateaubois
 
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Brian D a écrit :
Are you in France? Doesn't sound so bad to me. Others that I've spoken to
had quite a different story to tell, so it must vary a lot country by
country I'd say. Using your 1.3 ratio BTW, my wife and I have a joint
income of $130K Euros and this is not unusual ...but our combined tax rate
(fed plus state) is around 35%. Our social security will dissolve before we
get there (or will reduce in benefits, increase in age requirement, etc
...same thing as 'going away'). If our retirement keeps on like it has (it
includes world wide investments for diversity and growth), then our income
will remain unchanged when we retire and we'll have medical at the same
rate. Sounds like you and I are doing very much the same, maybe you are
doing a bit better. In this country, I'd say we are middle to upper-middle
class. Not tooo upper though. Just OK. We don't drive Mercedes... Dodge
and Chevy is more like it.

Yes, there is no paradise for sure, but freedom to succeed on your own is a
huge factor that should never be taken away from people.

Brian

You're right, I'm in France. Of course income and taxes may vary a lot
from countries to countries in Europe too.. UK taxes are far Higher for
instance. The intersting thing here is that Social security as
unemployment insurance is mandatory and directly cut from your wages. It
refunds 70% of your medical costs, and you can subscribe to a private
complement for 30 euros a month that brings it to 100% for all medical
costs.. The interesting thing is that it is taken to the source, so when
I get a 50K income, it is after all those insurances are paid, no need
to pay further.. and unemployment refunding , although it is 57% of you
salary is calculated on a 365 days a year basis.. so if you got 50 K for
12 months based on days worked (12x20 days), you'll be paid on a 30x12
days basis.. for instance, for a 50K income, you'll get a 42.75 K income
during 3 years if unemployed during this time..
Retirement is paid partly by the social security, and partly by private
companies to whom you have to subscribe when you work (all costs are
also cut at the source) and retirement wages may vary from 80% to 100%
of your salary depending on which private retirement funds you have
chosen to subscribe while you were active. Social security applies event
when you are retired and you will in any case get at least 70% refunded.
In this country lower middle class is usually around 50K a year for a
family although upper middle class is from 60K to 150K.. But i can
comfort you.. only a very few drive bmw or Mercedes in this class, at 40
to 100K a bit, they are way to expensive even for a higher middle class
family.. most of us drive Renault, Peugeot or Citroen cars (dodge or
chevy equivalent here). ;-) French people rather invest in stone than
in cars and most families try to have a vacation house in the
countryside or at the sea which becomes their everyday's home when they
get retired..

Phil.
  #29   Report Post  
Roger Derby
 
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Sounds like the typical government: take the person's money, count it, ask
him to say "May I" and then give some of it back.

Why do we have armies of accountants to compute income tax on government
employees? The money just goes in a circle with a little skim for the
administrators.

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Bateaubois" wrote in message
...
Brian D a écrit :
Are you in France? Doesn't sound so bad to me. Others that I've spoken
to had quite a different story to tell, so it must vary a lot country by
country I'd say. Using your 1.3 ratio BTW, my wife and I have a joint
income of $130K Euros and this is not unusual ...but our combined tax
rate (fed plus state) is around 35%. Our social security will dissolve
before we get there (or will reduce in benefits, increase in age
requirement, etc ...same thing as 'going away'). If our retirement keeps
on like it has (it includes world wide investments for diversity and
growth), then our income will remain unchanged when we retire and we'll
have medical at the same rate. Sounds like you and I are doing very much
the same, maybe you are doing a bit better. In this country, I'd say we
are middle to upper-middle class. Not tooo upper though. Just OK. We
don't drive Mercedes... Dodge and Chevy is more like it.

Yes, there is no paradise for sure, but freedom to succeed on your own is
a huge factor that should never be taken away from people.

Brian

You're right, I'm in France. Of course income and taxes may vary a lot
from countries to countries in Europe too.. UK taxes are far Higher for
instance. The intersting thing here is that Social security as
unemployment insurance is mandatory and directly cut from your wages. It
refunds 70% of your medical costs, and you can subscribe to a private
complement for 30 euros a month that brings it to 100% for all medical
costs.. The interesting thing is that it is taken to the source, so when I
get a 50K income, it is after all those insurances are paid, no need to
pay further.. and unemployment refunding , although it is 57% of you
salary is calculated on a 365 days a year basis.. so if you got 50 K for
12 months based on days worked (12x20 days), you'll be paid on a 30x12
days basis.. for instance, for a 50K income, you'll get a 42.75 K income
during 3 years if unemployed during this time..
Retirement is paid partly by the social security, and partly by private
companies to whom you have to subscribe when you work (all costs are also
cut at the source) and retirement wages may vary from 80% to 100% of your
salary depending on which private retirement funds you have chosen to
subscribe while you were active. Social security applies event when you
are retired and you will in any case get at least 70% refunded.
In this country lower middle class is usually around 50K a year for a
family although upper middle class is from 60K to 150K.. But i can comfort
you.. only a very few drive bmw or Mercedes in this class, at 40 to 100K a
bit, they are way to expensive even for a higher middle class family..
most of us drive Renault, Peugeot or Citroen cars (dodge or chevy
equivalent here). ;-) French people rather invest in stone than in cars
and most families try to have a vacation house in the countryside or at
the sea which becomes their everyday's home when they get retired..

Phil.



  #30   Report Post  
Bateaubois
 
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Roger Derby a écrit :
Sounds like the typical government: take the person's money, count it, ask
him to say "May I" and then give some of it back.

Why do we have armies of accountants to compute income tax on government
employees? The money just goes in a circle with a little skim for the
administrators.

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

Yes and we like it this way...
We'd rather have our money usefully used by the govt to build public
schools (free), universities(free), hospitals (70% free), roads (Every
road is tarred and maintained here..),librairies (free), highways
(taxed, but worth it, these are the best quality highways in Europe,
perfectly maintained, fine rest areas, gas station every 20 miles,
etc.), etc.. than have it going to a few billionaires at the head of
zaibatsus for worse purposes.. ;-)

phil.
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