Hello all,
I was hoping that some of you may have a solution for me:

I require a flat black paint for a fiberglass surface (gel coat). All the
paints I have tried use flattening agents which scratch VERY easily. If you
run a fingernail across the paint, you will leave a shiny streak where the
flattening agent has been worn off. It doesn't take long for the paint to
look very old indeed.
So far, I have tried Polyurethane 2 packs, acrylics, enamels, latex exterior
and lacquers. All of these use flattening agents which I suspect to be the
cause of the problem. Several years ago, I used a slow drying enamel which
did not use flattening agents (was matt even when wet). This was good paint
and pretty scratch resistant but I can't get it any more. Any ideas? How
about if I used metal flake or some other additive to flatten the paint?

Thanks in advance,

Arnold

Perhaps you could use hard gloss paint and flatten in afterwards with
320 grit wet sanding.

Brent

YSTay wrote:
Hello all,
I was hoping that some of you may have a solution for me:

I require a flat black paint for a fiberglass surface (gel coat). All the
paints I have tried use flattening agents which scratch VERY easily. If you
run a fingernail across the paint, you will leave a shiny streak where the
flattening agent has been worn off. It doesn't take long for the paint to
look very old indeed.
So far, I have tried Polyurethane 2 packs, acrylics, enamels, latex exterior
and lacquers. All of these use flattening agents which I suspect to be the
cause of the problem. Several years ago, I used a slow drying enamel which
did not use flattening agents (was matt even when wet). This was good paint
and pretty scratch resistant but I can't get it any more. Any ideas? How
about if I used metal flake or some other additive to flatten the paint?

Thanks in advance,

Arnold

Nah, paint should be smooth not having a 'Brushed" finish. But thanks..


"Brent Benson" wrote in message
...
Perhaps you could use hard gloss paint and flatten in afterwards with 320
grit wet sanding.

Brent

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:11:21 +0800, YSTay wrote:

Hello all,
I was hoping that some of you may have a solution for me:

I require a flat black paint for a fiberglass surface (gel coat). All the
paints I have tried use flattening agents which scratch VERY easily. If you
run a fingernail across the paint, you will leave a shiny streak where the
flattening agent has been worn off. It doesn't take long for the paint to
look very old indeed.
So far, I have tried Polyurethane 2 packs, acrylics, enamels, latex exterior
and lacquers. All of these use flattening agents which I suspect to be the
cause of the problem. Several years ago, I used a slow drying enamel which
did not use flattening agents (was matt even when wet). This was good paint
and pretty scratch resistant but I can't get it any more. Any ideas? How
about if I used metal flake or some other additive to flatten the paint?

Thanks in advance,

Arnold

You could mix graphite powder into epoxy, and use that as paint.

It may be a bit shiny at first, but after some time in the sun it will be
more matte. It is very scratch resistant, and fairly easy to apply. This
will be an expensive solution.

--Mac

Polyurethane paint are shinny by nature and need flatten agents to reduce
the gloss. One of the easiest way to reduce the gloss is to add talc. 25%
will give you a semi-gloss and 50% will give a satin. The more talc, the
weaker the paint. The second characteristic of a polyurethane is the
isocyanides love for moisture. After the paint gets tack free, just mist
water on the surface and it will be flatter than any flattening agent and
you keep the strength of the finish.
Good Luck
Bruce
Shield Finishes and Nauticoat Marine Finish Systems
www.shieldfinishes.com
"YSTay" wrote in message
...
Hello all,
I was hoping that some of you may have a solution for me:

I require a flat black paint for a fiberglass surface (gel coat). All the
paints I have tried use flattening agents which scratch VERY easily. If
you run a fingernail across the paint, you will leave a shiny streak where
the flattening agent has been worn off. It doesn't take long for the
paint to look very old indeed.
So far, I have tried Polyurethane 2 packs, acrylics, enamels, latex
exterior and lacquers. All of these use flattening agents which I suspect
to be the cause of the problem. Several years ago, I used a slow drying
enamel which did not use flattening agents (was matt even when wet). This
was good paint and pretty scratch resistant but I can't get it any more.
Any ideas? How about if I used metal flake or some other additive to
flatten the paint?

Thanks in advance,

Arnold

Brent Benson wrote:
Perhaps you could use hard gloss paint and flatten in afterwards with
320 grit wet sanding.

Using 0000 bronze wool or fine Scotchbrite produces a smoother, more
consistent finish with less effort.

YSTay wrote:
Wow! Good tip! I'll try it tomorrow with both PU and lacquers. I can
probably get hold of some talc but if not then baby powder.

Just remember that talc also changes the color. It will make black into
dark grey and turn white into a very light grey.

Wow that is some skinny paint. I bet you had to put on three or four
coats. When I am training a new painter, I like to keep it at 17 to 17.5
sec and accept the orange peel instead of the runs. When an aircraft is
painted, unlike boats, we have to worry about sagging around rivet heads...
so you need the paint a little stiffer. Our paint is high solids so after
you get accustomed to the paint, you can paint at about 16.5 sec and get
total coverage in two coats. On another note, I tried the new 414 aircap
on the Devilviss Plus gun and was amazed at the atomization it did. Try one
out and you will be blown away by the finish...it looked like a sheet of
glass.



BTW, great web site. When I was painting rich men's boats for a living, I
was using Interspray 900 (International brand) running it through a Dean
cup at 16 seconds. It was scary work.

Cheers,
Arnold


"Bruce on horizon" wrote in message
.. .
Polyurethane paint are shinny by nature and need flatten agents to reduce
the gloss. One of the easiest way to reduce the gloss is to add talc.
25% will give you a semi-gloss and 50% will give a satin. The more talc,
the weaker the paint. The second characteristic of a polyurethane is the
isocyanides love for moisture. After the paint gets tack free, just
mist water on the surface and it will be flatter than any flattening
agent and you keep the strength of the finish.
Good Luck
Bruce
Shield Finishes and Nauticoat Marine Finish Systems
www.shieldfinishes.com

Hi Bruce,
we used a pure white primer when painting white boats (99% of boats were
white). Flash off was within a couple of minutes so I could go over it
pretty quickly. But full cure took 4 hours. I quickly learnt to apply the
flow coat till just a slight orange peel was left, then over the cure time,
it would flow out to glass....Sometimes! But painting white outdoors
usually meant an aching neck at the end of the day from looking at the paint
from as many angles as possible.
I was recently asked to paint a Cessna but I declined. They wanted some
paint I'd never used and like you said, the rivets were scary. I don't
fancy cutting back an entire plane. I faced that problem the first time I
sprayed a GRP hull with fake planking grooves.
I shoulda known about the moisture thing.... so many times I've had to
polish work because of rain (the weather here is so unpredictable). For my
current project, I think I'll let the stuff cure in a wet box since the
painting is done at the end of the day. I'll try and let you know what
happens.
I'll take a look at the devilbiss. Its about time I got a good set since I
sold the business with all the gear.
Once again, thank you.

Arnold

"Bruce McCampbell" wrote in message
...

Wow that is some skinny paint. I bet you had to put on three or four
coats. When I am training a new painter, I like to keep it at 17 to
17.5 sec and accept the orange peel instead of the runs. When an
aircraft is painted, unlike boats, we have to worry about sagging around
rivet heads... so you need the paint a little stiffer. Our paint is high
solids so after you get accustomed to the paint, you can paint at about
16.5 sec and get total coverage in two coats. On another note, I tried
the new 414 aircap on the Devilviss Plus gun and was amazed at the
atomization it did. Try one out and you will be blown away by the
finish...it looked like a sheet of glass.

I got mine on ebay for $137...sometime you wonder if this stuff is hot when
the sellers sell it so cheap
Bruce

--
Shield Finishes and Nauticoat Marine Finish Systems
www.shieldfinishes.com
"YSTay" wrote in message
...
Hi Bruce,
we used a pure white primer when painting white boats (99% of boats were
white). Flash off was within a couple of minutes so I could go over it
pretty quickly. But full cure took 4 hours. I quickly learnt to apply
the flow coat till just a slight orange peel was left, then over the cure
time, it would flow out to glass....Sometimes! But painting white
outdoors usually meant an aching neck at the end of the day from looking
at the paint from as many angles as possible.
I was recently asked to paint a Cessna but I declined. They wanted some
paint I'd never used and like you said, the rivets were scary. I don't
fancy cutting back an entire plane. I faced that problem the first time I
sprayed a GRP hull with fake planking grooves.
I shoulda known about the moisture thing.... so many times I've had to
polish work because of rain (the weather here is so unpredictable). For
my current project, I think I'll let the stuff cure in a wet box since the
painting is done at the end of the day. I'll try and let you know what
happens.
I'll take a look at the devilbiss. Its about time I got a good set since
I sold the business with all the gear.
Once again, thank you.

Arnold

"Bruce McCampbell" wrote in message
...

Wow that is some skinny paint. I bet you had to put on three or four
coats. When I am training a new painter, I like to keep it at 17 to
17.5 sec and accept the orange peel instead of the runs. When an
aircraft is painted, unlike boats, we have to worry about sagging around
rivet heads... so you need the paint a little stiffer. Our paint is high
solids so after you get accustomed to the paint, you can paint at about
16.5 sec and get total coverage in two coats. On another note, I tried
the new 414 aircap on the Devilviss Plus gun and was amazed at the
atomization it did. Try one out and you will be blown away by the
finish...it looked like a sheet of glass.