I wonder where one could get some of the vermin/growth resistant variety?
I'll check around ...thanks for the heads up.

Brian D



"Sal's Dad" wrote in message
...

"Ed Lindsey" wrote in message
...
First, thanks to everyone who weighed in on floation foam. sounds like
the blue sheet foam is what I need. It will be glued to under gunnels
and inside transom lockers, so expanding foam is ot an option.

Brian, Sounds like you did a lot of work. Thanks for sharing the
process and results. Blue foam it is, and a helluva lot less expensive
then the stuff I was finding.

Just one note - "Blue" is Dow foam; the "Pink" by Owens-Corning is very
similar in most respects The folks in Midland Michigan (Dow country)
might take issue. As I recall, Dow had a number of different blue foams,
for different applications. When I visited them some years back, they
were even developing a vermin/marine growth resistant formulation) Which
you choose depends on what lumberyard you frequent. There may be other
brands, as well.

Sal's Dad

If they did go forward with that product, it would probably be in the big
billets they sell for dock floats. Your local distributor will probably
have no clue; my information came from a Dow product manager, 6 or 8 or 10
years ago; at that time they were working on development.

Sal's Dad

"Brian D" wrote in message
...

I wonder where one could get some of the vermin/growth resistant variety?
I'll check around ...thanks for the heads up.

Brian D



"Sal's Dad" wrote in message
...

"Ed Lindsey" wrote in message
...
First, thanks to everyone who weighed in on floation foam. sounds like
the blue sheet foam is what I need. It will be glued to under gunnels
and inside transom lockers, so expanding foam is ot an option.

Brian, Sounds like you did a lot of work. Thanks for sharing the
process and results. Blue foam it is, and a helluva lot less expensive
then the stuff I was finding.

Just one note - "Blue" is Dow foam; the "Pink" by Owens-Corning is very
similar in most respects The folks in Midland Michigan (Dow country)
might take issue. As I recall, Dow had a number of different blue foams,
for different applications. When I visited them some years back, they
were even developing a vermin/marine growth resistant formulation) Which
you choose depends on what lumberyard you frequent. There may be other
brands, as well.

Sal's Dad

I built a failed experimental dory using Pink foam - 1" and 2", sheathed
with epoxy/glass. More than 15 years later, it's still deteriorating in the
yard - the epoxy/foam bond was never a problem. Very
expensive/time-consuming for trying out a lousy design. But it was light,
strong, and unsinkable!

As I recall, my brother built a pink foam kayak, maybe sheathed in
polyester/glass. I vaguely remember problems with the polyester bond in a
structural application.

I've used foam/epoxy in a number of applications, including a sponsons on my
daughter's kayak. Glue it on, as many layers thick as you like, and then
shape with a razor knife or electric sander. My guess is you'll be able to
find a good cheap primer or paint for it. Or just leave it "bright"!


And be careful with terminology - I'm not an expert, but there are a lot of
products out there, and most people use incorrect names for them.

Sal's Dad

"Brian D" wrote in message
...

The blue closed-cell polyethylene is great for under decks, but I wonder
how well it will glue to something. You might try Liquid Nails or similar
I suppose. OTOH, there's another foam which is a high density closed-cell
polystyrene ('styrofoam') that's coated with primer type coating ready for
painting. Builders use it for something. Can't remember the name, but it
struck me as something that could look nice under a gunnel since it's
above the waterline. You can epoxy and paint right over it. Note that
the blue foam does distort a little when it stays wet for weeks or months
at a time. I'm going to use it under the decks, but haven't made a final
decision on other flotation in the boat. I need to calculate how much I
need and figure out where to hide it.

Brian D

"Sal's Dad" wrote in message
...
I built a failed experimental dory using Pink foam - 1" and 2", sheathed
with epoxy/glass. More than 15 years later, it's still deteriorating in
the yard - the epoxy/foam bond was never a problem. Very
expensive/time-consuming for trying out a lousy design. But it was light,
strong, and unsinkable!

(snip)

If it was light, strong and unsinkable, why was it a "failed" experiment?

"Sal's Dad" wrote in message
...
I built a failed experimental dory using Pink foam - 1" and 2", sheathed
with epoxy/glass. More than 15 years later, it's still deteriorating in
the yard - the epoxy/foam bond was never a problem. Very
expensive/time-consuming for trying out a lousy design. But it was light,
strong, and unsinkable!

(snip)

If it was light, strong and unsinkable, why was it a "failed" experiment?


It was expensive and time-consuming. And oh yes, the hull shape was very
unstable, inefficient, slow, and one or two other problems.

But upside down under a tree, it makes a nice warm winter home for
porcupines.

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 11:20:09 -0800, Brian D wrote:

[snip]

I forget now all the types of foam that I tested, but the clear winner was
closed-cell polyethylene (blue).

Are you sure it wasn't polystyrene? I haven't shopped foams too much, but
in my limited meanderings I haven't seen polyethylene foam for sale.

Just wondering.

--Mac

Nope. Polyethylene for sure. The local guy sells every kind of foam known
to man and if it's not in the shop, he can get it. He told me it was
closed-cell polyethylene. I doubt epoxy sticks to it. But I think it'll be
fine for cut-to-shape blocks below the deck (large enough pieces so they
don't get lost on a bad holing of course ...grinz).

Brian D



"Mac" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 11:20:09 -0800, Brian D wrote:

[snip]

I forget now all the types of foam that I tested, but the clear winner
was
closed-cell polyethylene (blue).

Are you sure it wasn't polystyrene? I haven't shopped foams too much, but
in my limited meanderings I haven't seen polyethylene foam for sale.

Just wondering.

--Mac

"Brian D" wrote in message
...

Nope. Polyethylene for sure. The local guy sells every kind of foam
known
to man and if it's not in the shop, he can get it. He told me it was
closed-cell polyethylene. I doubt epoxy sticks to it. But I think it'll
be
fine for cut-to-shape blocks below the deck (large enough pieces so they
don't get lost on a bad holing of course ...grinz).

Brian D


I'd bet he meant polyurethane. "Blue" and "Pink" board are that - and epoxy
does just fine with them.

L8R

Skip, using it for the reefer/freezer rebuild

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 10:25:09 -0500, Skip Gundlach wrote:

"Brian D" wrote in message
...

Nope. Polyethylene for sure. The local guy sells every kind of foam
known
to man and if it's not in the shop, he can get it. He told me it was
closed-cell polyethylene. I doubt epoxy sticks to it. But I think it'll
be
fine for cut-to-shape blocks below the deck (large enough pieces so they
don't get lost on a bad holing of course ...grinz).

Brian D


I'd bet he meant polyurethane. "Blue" and "Pink" board are that - and epoxy
does just fine with them.

L8R

Skip, using it for the reefer/freezer rebuild

You can buy blue styrene foam, too. At this point, I believe Brian D that
the foam is polyethylene.

--Mac

Yes, my foam supplier is very knowledgeable (even if I'm not) and I've
talked to him about the foam several times in addition to buying some and
testing it. It is closed-cell polyETHYLENE foam. Do a web search. It is
also used for filling mat-type boat fenders, plastic kayaks, and several
other marine related applications. And no, epoxy won't stick to it worth a
darn.

Brian D


"Mac" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 10:25:09 -0500, Skip Gundlach wrote:

"Brian D" wrote in message
...

Nope. Polyethylene for sure. The local guy sells every kind of foam
known
to man and if it's not in the shop, he can get it. He told me it was
closed-cell polyethylene. I doubt epoxy sticks to it. But I think
it'll
be
fine for cut-to-shape blocks below the deck (large enough pieces so they
don't get lost on a bad holing of course ...grinz).

Brian D


I'd bet he meant polyurethane. "Blue" and "Pink" board are that - and
epoxy
does just fine with them.

L8R

Skip, using it for the reefer/freezer rebuild

You can buy blue styrene foam, too. At this point, I believe Brian D that
the foam is polyethylene.

--Mac