Hello,

Does anyone know of an inexpensive sheet foam suitable for use as flotation?
Possible sources in the western US?

Thanks

"Ed Lindsey" ) writes:
Hello,

Does anyone know of an inexpensive sheet foam suitable for use as flotation?
Possible sources in the western US?

closed cell rigid foam sheets can be purchased at building supply stores, also
known as home improvement stores. they come in blue and pink (blue for boys?).
but it's cheapest when it's discarded at construction sites.

white styrofoam is cheaper, is not closed cell which means water can get
into it, but might be okay for some situations. I don't know if it's legal
to use or even if there is any law covering what kind of foam you can use
on boats.


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If you are going to put this foam in something else, I wonder if that
expanding "Great Stuff" spray foam would be of help. (home depot,
lowes, etc).

If, for instance, you were thinking of putting your sheet in a hold or
something, you could spray this expandable foam instead.
I don't know if it 'likes' to be wet and turns to a sponge - but that
you could easily test for.

Regards,
Remco

"Remco" wrote in message
oups.com...
If you are going to put this foam in something else, I wonder if that
expanding "Great Stuff" spray foam would be of help. (home depot,
lowes, etc).

If, for instance, you were thinking of putting your sheet in a hold or
something, you could spray this expandable foam instead.
I don't know if it 'likes' to be wet and turns to a sponge - but that
you could easily test for.

Regards,
Remco


No, it doesn't (help/work well). Froth-Pak by Dow, or Fomo Hand-Foam, by
Fomo is closed cell and far cheaper for the volume needed. GS is open cell
and will absorb moisture readily, and be very expensive for any but crack
sealing.

I just went through this for my boat (not for floatation, but for
insulation, but the principle's the same).

From my notes:

froth pak 888-868-1183 option 2 local guy rep sez ok careful about
expansion http://www.dow.com/pusystems/product/fpport.htm will help you
calculate volume needs

fomo.com spray in, $42 for 2cf (where to buy?)

1 330.753.4585, home office

I wound up going with Fomo as it was available in larger (2CF rather than
only 1CF) small sizes, and cheaper, too.

L8R

Skip

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Hi Skip
Thanks for setting that straight and doing the leg work -- I have been
wondering for a while if that stuff is a viable solution and clearly it
isn't.
Regards,
Remco

Ed,

I'm sure that your local foam supplier (see the yellow pages) can get the
foam you need. I went to the one here, "The Foam Man" in Corvallis, Oregon,
and bought several sample of different types of closed-cell foam to test
them. I weighed each piece ahead of time (dry) and measured the dimensions
(rectangular pieces). Then I tied each one to a brick and dropped it in a
bucket of water where I left it for 8 months out in the shop, filling as
necessary to make up for evaporation. With all the dust in the shop and
mosquitoes trying to set up shop in the buckets, there was slime and
who-knows-what growing in it ...short of using seawater and tossing in some
oil and gas, I figured this was a pretty good emulation of a typical bilge
where you might add flotation. After the 8 months, I took the blocks out,
brushed them with a potato brush under running water to remove slime, padded
'barely dry' on the outside with paper towels just to get rid of sheet water
on the foam, then weighed and measured each piece.

I forget now all the types of foam that I tested, but the clear winner was
closed-cell polyethylene (blue). They all absorb water over time, but the
blue poly only gave up 3% of it's flotation capability (3% of the displaced
water) and only swelled up about 3% in volume too. I followed this test by
putting the blocks of foam in Ziploc bags for a couple of weeks, one end
left open, to emulate a little trailer time for 'drying'. The blue poly was
still wet and there was lots of condensation in the bag after a couple of
weeks (not very good ventilation in/out of the bag), but the poly had given
up half the absorbed water anyway.

My conclusion was that the sealed-cell blue poly was an acceptable
flotation foam. In my case, I was looking for something that could be cut
to fit and installed, but could still be removed later on. Can't stand that
expanding polyurethane foam ...everybody that I know that has used it in
their boat has reported that it eventually becomes water logged and sloppy.
It is best used in compartments that normally stay dry, not wet.

Hope this info helps. For my boat project (see
http://www.reelboats.com ), I'll have cut-to-fit sealed-cell blue
polyethylene foam in the closed compartments, and will be able to remove the
foam via large rectangular deck plates installed in the bottom of cabinets
(not accessible to water on the deck ...deck plates leak). I'm going to run
a nylon strap or rope through the first block that goes in so I can pull the
blocks back out later on. It'll push the others towards the deck plate as I
pull it out.

Brian D




"Ed Lindsey" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Does anyone know of an inexpensive sheet foam suitable for use as
flotation? Possible sources in the western US?

Thanks

First, thanks to everyone who weighed in on floation foam. sounds like the
blue sheet foam is what I need. It will be glued to under gunnels and
inside transom lockers, so expanding foam is ot an option.

Brian, Sounds like you did a lot of work. Thanks for sharing the process
and results. Blue foam it is, and a helluva lot less expensive then the
stuff I was finding.

Ed
"Brian D" wrote in message
...

Ed,

I'm sure that your local foam supplier (see the yellow pages) can get the
foam you need. I went to the one here, "The Foam Man" in Corvallis,
Oregon, and bought several sample of different types of closed-cell foam
to test them. I weighed each piece ahead of time (dry) and measured the
dimensions (rectangular pieces). Then I tied each one to a brick and
dropped it in a bucket of water where I left it for 8 months out in the
shop, filling as necessary to make up for evaporation. With all the dust
in the shop and mosquitoes trying to set up shop in the buckets, there was
slime and who-knows-what growing in it ...short of using seawater and
tossing in some oil and gas, I figured this was a pretty good emulation of
a typical bilge where you might add flotation. After the 8 months, I took
the blocks out, brushed them with a potato brush under running water to
remove slime, padded 'barely dry' on the outside with paper towels just to
get rid of sheet water on the foam, then weighed and measured each piece.

I forget now all the types of foam that I tested, but the clear winner
was closed-cell polyethylene (blue). They all absorb water over time, but
the blue poly only gave up 3% of it's flotation capability (3% of the
displaced water) and only swelled up about 3% in volume too. I followed
this test by putting the blocks of foam in Ziploc bags for a couple of
weeks, one end left open, to emulate a little trailer time for 'drying'.
The blue poly was still wet and there was lots of condensation in the bag
after a couple of weeks (not very good ventilation in/out of the bag), but
the poly had given up half the absorbed water anyway.

My conclusion was that the sealed-cell blue poly was an acceptable
flotation foam. In my case, I was looking for something that could be cut
to fit and installed, but could still be removed later on. Can't stand
that expanding polyurethane foam ...everybody that I know that has used it
in their boat has reported that it eventually becomes water logged and
sloppy. It is best used in compartments that normally stay dry, not wet.

Hope this info helps. For my boat project (see
http://www.reelboats.com ), I'll have cut-to-fit sealed-cell blue
polyethylene foam in the closed compartments, and will be able to remove
the foam via large rectangular deck plates installed in the bottom of
cabinets (not accessible to water on the deck ...deck plates leak). I'm
going to run a nylon strap or rope through the first block that goes in so
I can pull the blocks back out later on. It'll push the others towards
the deck plate as I pull it out.

Brian D




"Ed Lindsey" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Does anyone know of an inexpensive sheet foam suitable for use as
flotation? Possible sources in the western US?

Thanks

"Ed Lindsey" wrote in message
...
First, thanks to everyone who weighed in on floation foam. sounds like
the blue sheet foam is what I need. It will be glued to under gunnels and
inside transom lockers, so expanding foam is ot an option.

Brian, Sounds like you did a lot of work. Thanks for sharing the process
and results. Blue foam it is, and a helluva lot less expensive then the
stuff I was finding.

Just one note - "Blue" is Dow foam; the "Pink" by Owens-Corning is very
similar in most respects The folks in Midland Michigan (Dow country) might
take issue. As I recall, Dow had a number of different blue foams, for
different applications. When I visited them some years back, they were even
developing a vermin/marine growth resistant formulation) Which you choose
depends on what lumberyard you frequent. There may be other brands, as well.

Sal's Dad

"Sal's Dad" ) writes:

Just one note - "Blue" is Dow foam; the "Pink" by Owens-Corning is very
similar in most respects The folks in Midland Michigan (Dow country) might
take issue. As I recall, Dow had a number of different blue foams, for
different applications. When I visited them some years back, they were even
developing a vermin/marine growth resistant formulation) Which you choose
depends on what lumberyard you frequent. There may be other brands, as well.

The home improvent stores around here sell regular and high density. I'd
use the regular. It's cheaper and lighter so it has more floatation. The
higher density board is stronger, heavier, and costs more.


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I wonder where one could get some of the vermin/growth resistant variety?
I'll check around ...thanks for the heads up.

Brian D



"Sal's Dad" wrote in message
...

"Ed Lindsey" wrote in message
...
First, thanks to everyone who weighed in on floation foam. sounds like
the blue sheet foam is what I need. It will be glued to under gunnels
and inside transom lockers, so expanding foam is ot an option.

Brian, Sounds like you did a lot of work. Thanks for sharing the
process and results. Blue foam it is, and a helluva lot less expensive
then the stuff I was finding.

Just one note - "Blue" is Dow foam; the "Pink" by Owens-Corning is very
similar in most respects The folks in Midland Michigan (Dow country)
might take issue. As I recall, Dow had a number of different blue foams,
for different applications. When I visited them some years back, they
were even developing a vermin/marine growth resistant formulation) Which
you choose depends on what lumberyard you frequent. There may be other
brands, as well.

Sal's Dad