Hi

Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote in message . ..
On 30 Jul 2004 02:02:45 -0700, (Per Corell)
wrote:

Hi
Perhaps a language problem?

In any case, it is hard to see how one usenet group could ruin your
opportunity to build boats.



No , and as I acturly had been building many, the reson to instantly
bully any new prototype any new concept also surprised me at start,
but you se when I interduced the idea of full/scale develobed panels.
made as one large roll of paper ready to display mount onto whatever
sheet material ----- I found one danish caravan factory that sold 3mm.
,one nice side ,ready made glasfiber sheet white gelcoat at very low
cost, ----- but what it seemed, was that the actural concept and the
difference from tradisional scaled down plans ,the fact that here was
somthing that was not the tradisional trouble of re-calculating and
upscaling to even transfere to just a building jig, where I offered
the actural panels in full-scale drawings ready to cut from the lines,
---- this was seemed to be the actural offence.
An offence towards those at that time maby 50 or 70 year old designs
found in P.M and simular , even anyone shuld think that it would be
more obvious to support a real living and innovative boat designer
that proved skills develobing exiting new design tools, ----- but try
go back as you say yourself ; first pfull-scale plans was no good even
a few years the jokers interduced them as their own invention, then
full-scale plans was no good as the paper would scrink in moisture
even then with scaled planes and paper the foult would be ten fold,
but ontop and even I showed both a load of acturly build boats, and
scaled models, then even a scale model wasn't a prove of nothing even
that's what boatbuilders allway's used.
--------- Anyway the 3D-Honeycomb method at the same time got the FAA
aproval and was pointed to as "an exiting new innovative method sor
small sports and beach planes", so being up against a crowd of
fanatics of aincient plywood boat designers didn't bother as much as
the obvious harm to a promising new boatbuilding concept, where
digital design tools was develobed to the benefit of amature builders
but obviously they also made the old fasion plans obsulute, unless you
by all means wanted to defend what was not even the noble wooden boat
building crafts, but cheap plybox designs 50 year old.
I often at those times wondered if it had to do with copyright but
acturly it was a battle between somthing that was not the old
boatbuilding crafts --- I am acturly a woodenboat builder --- and the
obvious options develobing new exiting design tools, guess who won.
Anyway the arguments was so hysterical that you had to give up when
somone claimed that a 3D model wasn't a "prove" for anything, even a
scale model was no use towards an elegant elefant, and I simply gave
up ontop the vaste of what shuld be my family's bread. -------- If you
check the Cyber-Boat remains you will se some nice designs though ,but
the 3D-H method that everyone could have profited from, was not
develobed further within the noble boatsbuilding craft, but Im'e not
to blame for that.

P.C.
http://home20.inet.tele.dk/h-3d/index.htm

Per Corell ) writes:
Hi

Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote in message . ..
On 30 Jul 2004 02:02:45 -0700, (Per Corell)
wrote:

Hi
Perhaps a language problem?

In any case, it is hard to see how one usenet group could ruin your
opportunity to build boats.



No , and as I acturly had been building many, the reson to instantly
bully any new prototype any new concept also surprised me at start,

That is not true. Several people looked at your material. What they
objected to was your everlasting postings promoting your ideas in this
newsgroup. Many people have described new techniques in this newsgroup but
they (we) don't go on and on about them until everyone gets fed up with
them. That is what people objected to and that is what made your postings
unpopular.

If you think society will immediately see one of your ideas as the great
new earth-shattering thing you, and other people who come up with ideas
often do, then you are wrong. Adoption of new ideas comes slowly. There
are significant costs invovled. It takes time to prove a new idea. If you
think your ideas are worthwhile then develop and prove them yourself, and
do not complain when other people are unwillign to devote their time and
money to it.

In any engineering discipline new ideas are a dime a dozen.


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Hi

(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...

That is not true. Several people looked at your material. What they
objected to was your everlasting postings promoting your ideas in this
newsgroup.

Realy -- well I notised that round 1700 members in the Cyber-Boat
Yahoo group don't complain about new idears and smart way's that make
no bad craftmanship out of the fantastic new options combining a noble
old craft with today's obvious options .

Many people have described new techniques in this newsgroup but
they (we) don't go on and on about them until everyone gets fed up with
them. That is what people objected to and that is what made your postings
unpopular.

My posting never was unpopular except among a small crowd that all the
time was talking about a specific designer who some 70 years ago
didn't make beautifull vessels and nice craftmanship, but forced cheap
materials into lazy drawings that often made problems for those who
was actural amature builders who just wanted a cheap boat for the
summer, from scrap sheet. ---- please don't make that better than
geniune wooden boatbuilding and the noble arts and skills of exelent
craftmen.


If you think society will immediately see one of your ideas as the great
new earth-shattering thing you, and other people who come up with ideas
often do, then you are wrong.

And you are here to fight "them" --- now except the obvious harm you
want to put onto somone and his family by bullying and hate, what's
your income ?
Do you just hate anyone skilled to work with , develob and ignite the
positive spirit and wanting to create somthing nice, are you just
hating anyone skilled to develob the new computer tools so to bring a
bit of beauty and develobment in a dying craft. Or maby boatsbuilding
for you mean staying with plywood designs as you can not cope with
nothing more complicated than bullying -------- what did you show, was
it a nice display of exiting possibilities or was it nothing but
bullying anything that was different than what you can grasp, all
"modern" and "different" -------- then "different" from what ,the
elegant elefant ?


Adoption of new ideas comes slowly. There
are significant costs invovled. It takes time to prove a new idea. If you
think your ideas are worthwhile then develop and prove them yourself, and
do not complain when other people are unwillign to devote their time and
money to it.

------ What an arogant statement, some guy profesionaly skilled and
with a load of fantastic new drive, able to create the wonders and
proven top skills come and "think he is anything" , 1700 members
steady and thousands floating in and out get all the inspiration that
is my only intention to bring, the exiting new computer tools on
display in a way that in actural pictures 3D show different technikes
for the ones who don't want to project a boat as they did since 1740,
then you sit at a computer and claim that lame plywood designs made
from scrap, shuld be better than geniune noble crafts and quality,
safety and thought.
You got a lot of things wrong, but it seem that your own shouting and
dirt throwing made you blind.

Did you realy think I was some Hippie that played with a computer, or
is that just the hate picture you used to promote the tradisional
boatplans that in this fora was God, the old fasion technikes that you
had to defend with bullying and making a fool out of anyone "who think
they are anything" or "is better than us" ----- well that's not what
boatbuilding is for me, for me it is about craftmanship nice design
,and actural develobment of a noble old craft.


In any engineering discipline new ideas are a dime a dozen.

Realy,--- now please remember that they also said that a ship made out
of Iron could never float, that nothing heavier than the air would
never fly and that infront a car, there shuld be a man with a gun and
a huge flag.
Engineering is full of just that deadend conservatism you progress but
tell me what you contribuated. --

P.C.

Per, you remind me of a fellow pilot work with, whom I used to call "60
grit". He was honestly amazed at how many people got so offended by his
remarks, and how people would "attack him" for his "honest opinions". He
seems to have gotten over it, though, having gone from people declaring they
wouldn't fly with the guy, to handling a big political mess on a recent
1,400 mile rescue mission.

Most people tend to look at the world through a one way mirror. They see
the other guy as much darker, and can't see their own reflection very well.
Try flipping it around. Imagine they are trying to help you. Think they
are trying to help you succeed by focusing you on your core capabilities
instead of thinking you are going to change the world. That's because they
are.

Personally, I have gotten far more from Devil's advocates than cheerleaders.
For example, I blew $1,600 and months of frustration on a College project I
funded. I got caught up in the teams enthusiasm and wound up with a pile of
junk instead of my goal.

Speaking of which (and back to planking methods) your CAD work is great.
What I am interested in is an easy way to turn a CAD design into a decent
mold. CAD has gotten cheap, trying to get cheap CAM is the issue now.


"Per Corell" wrote in message
om...
Hi

(William R. Watt) wrote in message
...

That is not true. Several people looked at your material. What they
objected to was your everlasting postings promoting your ideas in this
newsgroup.

Realy -- well I notised that round 1700 members in the Cyber-Boat
Yahoo group don't complain about new idears and smart way's that make
no bad craftmanship out of the fantastic new options combining a noble
old craft with today's obvious options .

Many people have described new techniques in this newsgroup but
they (we) don't go on and on about them until everyone gets fed up with
them. That is what people objected to and that is what made your
postings
unpopular.

My posting never was unpopular except among a small crowd that all the
time was talking about a specific designer who some 70 years ago
didn't make beautifull vessels and nice craftmanship, but forced cheap
materials into lazy drawings that often made problems for those who
was actural amature builders who just wanted a cheap boat for the
summer, from scrap sheet. ---- please don't make that better than
geniune wooden boatbuilding and the noble arts and skills of exelent
craftmen.


If you think society will immediately see one of your ideas as the great
new earth-shattering thing you, and other people who come up with ideas
often do, then you are wrong.

And you are here to fight "them" --- now except the obvious harm you
want to put onto somone and his family by bullying and hate, what's
your income ?
Do you just hate anyone skilled to work with , develob and ignite the
positive spirit and wanting to create somthing nice, are you just
hating anyone skilled to develob the new computer tools so to bring a
bit of beauty and develobment in a dying craft. Or maby boatsbuilding
for you mean staying with plywood designs as you can not cope with
nothing more complicated than bullying -------- what did you show, was
it a nice display of exiting possibilities or was it nothing but
bullying anything that was different than what you can grasp, all
"modern" and "different" -------- then "different" from what ,the
elegant elefant ?


Adoption of new ideas comes slowly. There
are significant costs invovled. It takes time to prove a new idea. If
you
think your ideas are worthwhile then develop and prove them yourself,
and
do not complain when other people are unwillign to devote their time and
money to it.

------ What an arogant statement, some guy profesionaly skilled and
with a load of fantastic new drive, able to create the wonders and
proven top skills come and "think he is anything" , 1700 members
steady and thousands floating in and out get all the inspiration that
is my only intention to bring, the exiting new computer tools on
display in a way that in actural pictures 3D show different technikes
for the ones who don't want to project a boat as they did since 1740,
then you sit at a computer and claim that lame plywood designs made
from scrap, shuld be better than geniune noble crafts and quality,
safety and thought.
You got a lot of things wrong, but it seem that your own shouting and
dirt throwing made you blind.

Did you realy think I was some Hippie that played with a computer, or
is that just the hate picture you used to promote the tradisional
boatplans that in this fora was God, the old fasion technikes that you
had to defend with bullying and making a fool out of anyone "who think
they are anything" or "is better than us" ----- well that's not what
boatbuilding is for me, for me it is about craftmanship nice design
,and actural develobment of a noble old craft.


In any engineering discipline new ideas are a dime a dozen.

Realy,--- now please remember that they also said that a ship made out
of Iron could never float, that nothing heavier than the air would
never fly and that infront a car, there shuld be a man with a gun and
a huge flag.
Engineering is full of just that deadend conservatism you progress but
tell me what you contribuated. --

P.C.

I was tinkering with that idea. Eric at Rainbow Boat Works
(www.rainbowboats.com) does the CNC kits for my plans. He has a Shopbot
CNC router.

I e-mailed Shopbot and asked if a Rhino3d (Rhino3D is the design
software I use) file can be dumped into their Shopbot control program
and cut a mold. Here's what they said:

"The combination of Rhino and Mill Wizard is popular for the type of
work you describe. Check the forum www.talkshopbot.com - search for
those names. And you might want to contact in
tech support for more specific info."

I'm not sure how easy or hard this is to do but maybe that'll point you
in the right direction.

Matt Langenfeld
JEM Watercraft
htpp://www.jemwatercraft.com



Robert Haston wrote:

Speaking of which (and back to planking methods) your CAD work is great.
What I am interested in is an easy way to turn a CAD design into a decent
mold. CAD has gotten cheap, trying to get cheap CAM is the issue now.

Greg Carlson sells a CNC cutter and his free plywood boat design program
is meant to work with it. The CNC output which I don't understand might be
an industry standard. Take a look at www.carlsondesign.com. The program is
limited in the hull shapes it can handle - hard chined with only 5
stations if I remember correctly.

--
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William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
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(William R. Watt) wrote in
:

Greg Carlson sells a CNC cutter and his free plywood boat design
program is meant to work with it. The CNC output which I don't
understand might be an industry standard. Take a look at
www.carlsondesign.com. The program is limited in the hull shapes it
can handle - hard chined with only 5 stations if I remember correctly.

--
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------- William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free
community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's
returned


Go to www.cnczone.com and have a look at the home built wooden router
forum. People there (including me) are building/have built all sorts of
home built cnc machines. The CAM has definitely caught up with the CAD,
you just need to know where to look. As to CAD, Rhino produces 3D surface
models, you cannot go direct from there to develop and cut the composite
2d parts. Once you get the idea of 2d, 2 1/2 d and 3d machining then its
all possible and there's even freeware/shareware to drive a machine,
interpret cad output to gcode and the like.

My 2'x4'x14" machine has a 3 1/2 hp Portercable router and can cut wood
or Aluminum, cut up to 120inches pm, can cut 3d direct from rhino, 2 or 2
1/2 d from Autocad or drill circuit boards to 0.001" with #80 drills. All
up costs excluding router was about $900.