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Old May 30th 10, 01:52 AM
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Default Fiberglass Help

I came upon a nice Bass Boat (ha ha) on a bad deal. It has several cracks in the hull and is taking on water. I have turned the boat upside down and have sanded the hull. The places where the cracks are I have sanded down to the fiberglass. My plan is to drill holes in the bottom where the hull seams to be weak and inject with injection foam and then re-fiberglass the whole bottom. The I plan to use "work horse" Illiminator fiberglass resin to spray the bottom for blocking and repaint with Imron single stage paint. My question is; will the fiberglass bite to some areas where there is still gelcoat left on the hull or do I need to go all the way to fiberglass all over? Any ideas or comments will be appreciated.........Thanks
Attached Thumbnails
Fiberglass Help-smaller_boat_1.jpg  Fiberglass Help-smaller_boat_3.jpg  Fiberglass Help-smaller_boat_2.jpg  

Last edited by Barnett22 : May 30th 10 at 02:20 AM Reason: adding tag

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Old May 30th 10, 05:23 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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Posts: 4
Default Fiberglass Help

On Sun, 30 May 2010 01:52:13 +0100, Barnett22
wrote:


I came upon a nice Bass Boat (ha ha) on a bad deal. It has several
cracks in the hull and is taking on water. I have turned the boat
upside down and have sanded the hull. The places where the cracks are
I have sanded down to the fiberglass. My plan is to drill holes in the
bottom where the hull seams to be weak and inject with injection foam
and then re-fiberglass the whole bottom. The I plan to use "work
horse" Illiminator fiberglass resin to spray the bottom for blocking
and repaint with Imron single stage paint. My question is; will the
fiberglass bite to some areas where there is still gelcoat left on the
hull or do I need to go all the way to fiberglass all over? Any ideas
or comments will be appreciated.........Thanks



I am assuming that your boat is a single skin, i.e., not a foam
sandwich, construction. If that is correct and you have cracks that
penetrate the hull (you said they boat was leaking water through the
cracks) then your intended repair is not going to fix anything, at
least not for very long. The normal procedure is to grind out the
crack and fill with layers of fiberglass cloth and after you have the
repair filled to the same thickness and the hull, sand smooth and
finish.

Go to http://westsystem.com/ss/boat-repair/

Boat Repair

These Epoxyworks articles are about specific boat repair, restoration
or related projects. For comprehensive boat repair and restoration
instructions, download one of our comprehensive manuals: 002-970
Wooden Boat Restoration & Repair, 002-550 Fiberglass Boat Repair &
Maintenance or 002-650 Gelcoat Blisters-Diagnosis, Repair &
Prevention, published by Gougeon Brothers.

Click on the link titled "Fiberglass Boat Repair & Maintenance" and
download the manual and read it.

It gives sufficient detail that you should have no problems but if you
do then come back.

By the way, gel coat is essentially polyester resin with a coloring
agent which is used to make a smooth finish on the outside of the
fiberglass structural layer. So, since it is just a surface finish it
should be ground completely off in the areas that you are bonding
additional glass.

You say that "The I plan to use "work horse" Illiminator fiberglass
resin to spray the bottom for blocking..." I am not sure what you mean
here but a layer of epoxy resin on the surface of the hull will
provide some waterproofing but will not contribute significant
additional strength.

If you meant that you intend to use epoxy resin as a filler and base
coat for the finish paint coat then I would suggest that you use a two
part epoxy :high build primer" as it will be a much better base coat.

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Old May 30th 10, 09:05 PM
Junior Member
 
First recorded activity by BoatBanter: May 2010
Posts: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce[_22_] View Post
On Sun, 30 May 2010 01:52:13 +0100, Barnett22
wrote:


I came upon a nice Bass Boat (ha ha) on a bad deal. It has several
cracks in the hull and is taking on water. I have turned the boat
upside down and have sanded the hull. The places where the cracks are
I have sanded down to the fiberglass. My plan is to drill holes in the
bottom where the hull seams to be weak and inject with injection foam
and then re-fiberglass the whole bottom. The I plan to use "work
horse" Illiminator fiberglass resin to spray the bottom for blocking
and repaint with Imron single stage paint. My question is; will the
fiberglass bite to some areas where there is still gelcoat left on the
hull or do I need to go all the way to fiberglass all over? Any ideas
or comments will be appreciated.........Thanks



I am assuming that your boat is a single skin, i.e., not a foam
sandwich, construction. If that is correct and you have cracks that
penetrate the hull (you said they boat was leaking water through the
cracks) then your intended repair is not going to fix anything, at
least not for very long. The normal procedure is to grind out the
crack and fill with layers of fiberglass cloth and after you have the
repair filled to the same thickness and the hull, sand smooth and
finish.

Go to
http://westsystem.com/ss/boat-repair/

Boat Repair

These Epoxyworks articles are about specific boat repair, restoration
or related projects. For comprehensive boat repair and restoration
instructions, download one of our comprehensive manuals: 002-970
Wooden Boat Restoration & Repair, 002-550 Fiberglass Boat Repair &
Maintenance or 002-650 Gelcoat Blisters-Diagnosis, Repair &
Prevention, published by Gougeon Brothers.

Click on the link titled "Fiberglass Boat Repair & Maintenance" and
download the manual and read it.

It gives sufficient detail that you should have no problems but if you
do then come back.

By the way, gel coat is essentially polyester resin with a coloring
agent which is used to make a smooth finish on the outside of the
fiberglass structural layer. So, since it is just a surface finish it
should be ground completely off in the areas that you are bonding
additional glass.

You say that "The I plan to use "work horse" Illiminator fiberglass
resin to spray the bottom for blocking..." I am not sure what you mean
here but a layer of epoxy resin on the surface of the hull will
provide some waterproofing but will not contribute significant
additional strength.

If you meant that you intend to use epoxy resin as a filler and base
coat for the finish paint coat then I would suggest that you use a two
part epoxy :high build primer" as it will be a much better base coat.
Thanks for your help. I am guessing I will need to cut out the bad fiberglass, bevel back the edges and replace with layers required to match thickness. Yes, there are places on the boat that are "sandwiched". I am very concerned about not completely glassing the bottom of this hull. I have ordered biaxial cloth, Resin and slow hardener. I do have about 6 (not sure what to call them) ridges, water runners, reveals?.?. that I would have to go over if I re-glass the bottom. I am sure if I use 8-10 lb fabric and layer it, it wouldn't be a problem. here is a photo of the only large problem areas.....these are photos from when I started.......some yahoo worked on it before I got it. I will post photos as I go.......Thanks again
Attached Thumbnails
Fiberglass Help-smaller_boat_4.jpg  Fiberglass Help-smaller_boat_3.jpg  
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Old May 30th 10, 11:34 PM posted to rec.boats.building
den den is offline
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Posts: 94
Default Fiberglass Help

There is also wax in the gel coat, which has to be removed by
grinding, as previously mentioned, or chemically washing because of
non adherence. In your case not to worry, as I doubt if there is any
wax left. your call.
Den
48ft YF EAGLE

On May 30, 9:23*am, Bruce wrote:
On Sun, 30 May 2010 01:52:13 +0100, Barnett22
Go tohttp://westsystem.com/ss/boat-repair/
By the way, gel coat is essentially polyester resin with a coloring
agent which is used to make a smooth finish on the outside of the
fiberglass structural layer. So, since it is just a surface finish it
should be ground completely off in the areas that you are bonding
additional glass.

:high build primer" as it will be a much better base coat.

  #5   Report Post  
Old May 31st 10, 02:51 AM
Junior Member
 
First recorded activity by BoatBanter: May 2010
Posts: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by den View Post
There is also wax in the gel coat, which has to be removed by
grinding, as previously mentioned, or chemically washing because of
non adherence. In your case not to worry, as I doubt if there is any
wax left. your call.
Den
48ft YF EAGLE

On May 30, 9:23*am, Bruce wrote:
On Sun, 30 May 2010 01:52:13 +0100, Barnett22
Go tohttp://westsystem.com/ss/boat-repair/
By the way, gel coat is essentially polyester resin with a coloring
agent which is used to make a smooth finish on the outside of the
fiberglass structural layer. So, since it is just a surface finish it
should be ground completely off in the areas that you are bonding
additional glass.

:high build primer" as it will be a much better base coat.


Oh yea, if I need to go down to raw fiberglass on the hull, I'll do the text book repair adding 5-6 layers of biaxial and then sand and put another couple layers on the whole hull. Hopefully that will hold it. There will be a ton of blocking.........think Imron (single stage) will hold on the bottom or will I need to go with a Gel-Coat? Same properties, I believe. Thanks again


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Old May 31st 10, 03:39 AM posted to rec.boats.building
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Posts: 184
Default Fiberglass Help

On Sun, 30 May 2010 21:05:11 +0100, Barnett22
wrote:


'Bruce[_22_ Wrote:
;799374']On Sun, 30 May 2010 01:52:13 +0100, Barnett22
wrote:
-

I came upon a nice Bass Boat (ha ha) on a bad deal. It has several
cracks in the hull and is taking on water. I have turned the boat
upside down and have sanded the hull. The places where the cracks are
I have sanded down to the fiberglass. My plan is to drill holes in
the
bottom where the hull seams to be weak and inject with injection foam
and then re-fiberglass the whole bottom. The I plan to use "work
horse" Illiminator fiberglass resin to spray the bottom for blocking
and repaint with Imron single stage paint. My question is; will the
fiberglass bite to some areas where there is still gelcoat left on the
hull or do I need to go all the way to fiberglass all over? Any ideas
or comments will be appreciated.........Thanks-


I am assuming that your boat is a single skin, i.e., not a foam
sandwich, construction. If that is correct and you have cracks that
penetrate the hull (you said they boat was leaking water through the
cracks) then your intended repair is not going to fix anything, at
least not for very long. The normal procedure is to grind out the
crack and fill with layers of fiberglass cloth and after you have the
repair filled to the same thickness and the hull, sand smooth and
finish.

Go to
http://westsystem.com/ss/boat-repair/

Boat Repair

These Epoxyworks articles are about specific boat repair, restoration
or related projects. For comprehensive boat repair and restoration
instructions, download one of our comprehensive manuals: 002-970
Wooden Boat Restoration & Repair, 002-550 Fiberglass Boat Repair &
Maintenance or 002-650 Gelcoat Blisters-Diagnosis, Repair &
Prevention, published by Gougeon Brothers.

Click on the link titled "Fiberglass Boat Repair & Maintenance" and
download the manual and read it.

It gives sufficient detail that you should have no problems but if you
do then come back.

By the way, gel coat is essentially polyester resin with a coloring
agent which is used to make a smooth finish on the outside of the
fiberglass structural layer. So, since it is just a surface finish it
should be ground completely off in the areas that you are bonding
additional glass.

You say that "The I plan to use "work horse" Illiminator fiberglass
resin to spray the bottom for blocking..." I am not sure what you mean
here but a layer of epoxy resin on the surface of the hull will
provide some waterproofing but will not contribute significant
additional strength.

If you meant that you intend to use epoxy resin as a filler and base
coat for the finish paint coat then I would suggest that you use a two
part epoxy :high build primer" as it will be a much better base coat.


Thanks for your help. I am guessing I will need to cut out the bad
fiberglass, bevel back the edges and replace with layers required to
match thickness. Yes, there are places on the boat that are
"sandwiched". I am very concerned about not completely glassing the
bottom of this hull. I have ordered biaxial cloth, Resin and slow
hardener. I do have about 6 (not sure what to call them) ridges, water
runners, reveals?.?. that I would have to go over if I re-glass the
bottom. I am sure if I use 8-10 lb fabric and layer it, it wouldn't be
a problem. here is a photo of the only large problem areas.....these
are photos from when I started.......some yahoo worked on it before I
got it. I will post photos as I go.......Thanks again


I would recommend that you repair any cracks or deep gouges as these
would detract from the strength of the hull. Then if you want to you
could sheath the entire bottom of the boat with a layer, or more, of
cloth. However, that is going to be a big job as you will have to
grind off all the gelcoat, which is not a small job.

You might try to determine if the cracks are a matter of hitting
something or structural weakness. Is all the damage in an area that is
unsupported by stringers or ribs? If there is a large area where the
damage is that has no stringers, bulkheads or ribs, or if the bottom
is flexible in the damaged areas, and there is no damage in areas
where the hull does have inner supports then it is possible that the
hull is just not stiff enough in some areas and adding stringers or
ribs, inside, may be a solution. Simply adding a layer of glass will
not reduce flexing to any great extent.

(I believe that it is 10 oz. cloth, not 10 lb. :-)

Here we would consider 600 gm. (per square meter) heavy cloth. If I am
calculating correctly your 10 oz. (per square yard) is about 300 gm.
what we would consider a medium weight and depending on weave would be
commonly used.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
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Old May 31st 10, 09:38 AM posted to rec.boats.building
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Default Fiberglass Help

HOW MUCH IS THE BOAT WORTH?
  #8   Report Post  
Old May 31st 10, 12:31 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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Posts: 12
Default Fiberglass Help

On Mon, 31 May 2010 03:38:54 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

HOW MUCH IS THE BOAT WORTH?


And along those lines, how heavy is it going to be? IIRC, you said
bass boat? If it ends up a bunch heavier, and it sounds like it's
going to, then performance will suffer.

Pete Keillor
  #9   Report Post  
Old May 31st 10, 03:18 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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Posts: 184
Default Fiberglass Help

On Mon, 31 May 2010 02:51:09 +0100, Barnett22
wrote:


den;799437 Wrote:
There is also wax in the gel coat, which has to be removed by
grinding, as previously mentioned, or chemically washing because of
non adherence. In your case not to worry, as I doubt if there is any
wax left. your call.
Den
48ft YF EAGLE

On May 30, 9:23*am, Bruce wrote:-
On Sun, 30 May 2010 01:52:13 +0100, Barnett22
Go tohttp://westsystem.com/ss/boat-repair/
By the way, gel coat is essentially polyester resin with a coloring
agent which is used to make a smooth finish on the outside of the
fiberglass structural layer. So, since it is just a surface finish it
should be ground completely off in the areas that you are bonding
additional glass.-
:high build primer" as it will be a much better base coat.




Oh yea, if I need to go down to raw fiberglass on the hull, I'll do the
text book repair adding 5-6 layers of biaxial and then sand and put
another couple layers on the whole hull. Hopefully that will hold it.
There will be a ton of blocking.........think Imron (single stage) will
hold on the bottom or will I need to go with a Gel-Coat? Same
properties, I believe. Thanks again



I haven't seen the boat of course, but I wonder why you want to
re-sheath the bottom? It is a hell of a lot of work if no other
reason.

You are also adding weight to the boat and will it solve the problem?
In fact what is the problem? Are the cracks from weak structure or did
the previous owner hit a log at fifty miles an hour?

Re-paint.
Gelcoat is basically polyester resin with a coloring agent mixed into
it so it adheres to the polyester built hull real well. However.... it
doesn't stick to epoxy nearly as well so the usual policy is gelcoat
over polyester and paint over epoxy.

I'm not familiar with Imron but googling on it appears to be what I
would call a two part paint - paint + activator so I think it is
probably like the two part polyurethane paint we use on boats. and
would be suitable for the bottom of a fast boat.

I am assuming that this boat is trailered and not left in the water
for long periods as you don't talk about anti-fouling paint so my
suggestion is to decide what two part polyurethane paint to use based
on cost. I would certainly advise a two part poly paint as if you use
epoxy paint it "chalks" quite heavily and doesn't look so pretty after
the first year.


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
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Old June 1st 10, 03:23 AM
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Posts: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce[_4_] View Post
On Mon, 31 May 2010 02:51:09 +0100, Barnett22
wrote:


den;799437 Wrote:
There is also wax in the gel coat, which has to be removed by
grinding, as previously mentioned, or chemically washing because of
non adherence. In your case not to worry, as I doubt if there is any
wax left. your call.
Den
48ft YF EAGLE

On May 30, 9:23*am, Bruce wrote:-
On Sun, 30 May 2010 01:52:13 +0100, Barnett22
Go tohttp://westsystem.com/ss/boat-repair/
By the way, gel coat is essentially polyester resin with a coloring
agent which is used to make a smooth finish on the outside of the
fiberglass structural layer. So, since it is just a surface finish it
should be ground completely off in the areas that you are bonding
additional glass.-
:high build primer" as it will be a much better base coat.




Oh yea, if I need to go down to raw fiberglass on the hull, I'll do the
text book repair adding 5-6 layers of biaxial and then sand and put
another couple layers on the whole hull. Hopefully that will hold it.
There will be a ton of blocking.........think Imron (single stage) will
hold on the bottom or will I need to go with a Gel-Coat? Same
properties, I believe. Thanks again



I haven't seen the boat of course, but I wonder why you want to
re-sheath the bottom? It is a hell of a lot of work if no other
reason.

You are also adding weight to the boat and will it solve the problem?
In fact what is the problem? Are the cracks from weak structure or did
the previous owner hit a log at fifty miles an hour?

Re-paint.
Gelcoat is basically polyester resin with a coloring agent mixed into
it so it adheres to the polyester built hull real well. However.... it
doesn't stick to epoxy nearly as well so the usual policy is gelcoat
over polyester and paint over epoxy.

I'm not familiar with Imron but googling on it appears to be what I
would call a two part paint - paint + activator so I think it is
probably like the two part polyurethane paint we use on boats. and
would be suitable for the bottom of a fast boat.

I am assuming that this boat is trailered and not left in the water
for long periods as you don't talk about anti-fouling paint so my
suggestion is to decide what two part polyurethane paint to use based
on cost. I would certainly advise a two part poly paint as if you use
epoxy paint it "chalks" quite heavily and doesn't look so pretty after
the first year.


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
Thanks Bruce,

I worked on the boat all day today and removed all paint and gel-coat from the hull. Yes, it was a big job!

This is a Nitro Bass Boat, and a 1995 to boot. It is probably worth $4,000.00 when it does not have any issues with the hull. I traded for this boat locally for a very nice little 4x4 pick up truck. While inspecting the boat I found where a few places where it looked like someone had worked on the hull. I asked the gentleman about it and he said he had a little water coming in the boat and he had had this problem corrected. I asked him twice if it leaked any water now. He seemed to be a very honest guy. Anyway, the first time on the lake it took on a tremendous amount of water. Bilge pumps did keep up, but barely. To make a long story a little shorter, I got took on this one.

So, I am a cabinet builder by trade and felt if anyone could do this I could. I stripped all paint off and sanded all the gel-coat off. I am down to solid yellow fiberglass. Presently, I have found every stress crack, “v” grooved, cleaned with Acetone and filled with epoxy filler. I am in the process of repairing one larger spot by cutting out damaged area and layering with 6 layers of glass and epoxy. After these are repaired I plan to re-sheath/re-glass the bottom with biaxial cloth and epoxy.

This is a 16.5’ bass boat with a 115hp outboard, so I don’t believe it will be a problem. One other thing, it does have several places on the boat hull that seam weak or not too stiff. (like there’s nothing behind it) I am planning on buying some injection foam to try and fill in the gaps between the hull and the stock foam fillers that are sandwiched between to top cap and the hull. I plan to drill holes to shoot this into the cavity. Hopefully, this will expand enough to take some of the load.

This boat will be trailered, only in the water for 4 – 6 hours at a time.

Boy, I sure hope this works………spent some time on it already…..


Thanks so much guys for the advice and comments. I’ll have some photos up tomorrow.

Take care,


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