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Old April 15th 10, 08:35 AM posted to rec.boats.building
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On 4/14/2010 8:58 PM, Bruce wrote:
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 11:20:14 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:

In [email protected] .com,
says...

Dave wrote:
I'm building a 9 foot wooden flat bottom boat for myself and the kids.
It'
made out of 3/8" plywood from Home Depot and we're probably going to
use it
about every other weekend in the water. Where I'm at it's mostly salt
water
area (Gulf).

My question is:

Will normal Latex Exterior house paint will work?

best to seal with 2 coats of solvent thinned epoxy or moisture cured
urethane primer, then ext. latex....

paul - progressive epoxy polymers inc


With all due respect, that is not the way to go. I am going to assume he
used regular exterior ply and it is more vulnerable to moisture damage
than BS1088 or similar. If he coats it with two coats of thinned epoxy,
moisture that gets in (and it will) can not get out. Wooden boats are
best done old school with paint and sealer. A good wood primer, some
sandpaper, and a couple coats of acrylic based paint, he doesn't want to
use latex, at least on the outside, inside is ok...

Let the wood breathe and the boat will last a lot longer...

Scotty, just my opinion.


I think it depends on many things. did any scrapes or dings damage the
boat? Dragged it up on the beach and wore all the coating off the
bottom?

But your assertion that somehow moisture penetrates in through the
epoxy and can't get out just isn't logical - there is no one way
valves in the epoxy :-)

My own experience seems quite different from yours. For example, I
built an 8 ft. dinghy using exterior grade plywood some ten years
ago.. Tapped the joints and covered the outside of the bottom with
IIRC 400 gm cloth. The rest of the boat was painted with epoxy, epoxy
primer, two part polyurethane. Some eight years after I built it a
bloke walked by the dinghy, bottom side up in the dock in front of my
sailboat, and started to admire it. finally said, "would I sell it?".
I did immediately, and I saw the boat, now 10 years + old, still being
used just the other day.

Of course, my boat is/was used in salt water which is somewhat of a
preservative, or perhaps preventative, as far as dry rot goes, but
still, a ten year + life for a 8 ft. two sheet of plywood, dinghy does
seem satisfactory, or at least value for money.

Of course, just painting works also. I believe I have mentioned a
fishing boat they two Uncles built from exterior grade fir plywood.
Kept in the garage and used a day or two every week during fishing
season that was still usable after 15 years.

.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)



You just pushed me over the trip point, Bruce.

I' going to build a simple D5 dinghy.


--

Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/



  #12   Report Post  
Old April 15th 10, 09:04 AM posted to rec.boats.building
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In article ,
says...

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 11:20:14 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Dave wrote:
I'm building a 9 foot wooden flat bottom boat for myself and the kids.
It'
made out of 3/8" plywood from Home Depot and we're probably going to
use it
about every other weekend in the water. Where I'm at it's mostly salt
water
area (Gulf).

My question is:

Will normal Latex Exterior house paint will work?

best to seal with 2 coats of solvent thinned epoxy or moisture cured
urethane primer, then ext. latex....

paul - progressive epoxy polymers inc


With all due respect, that is not the way to go. I am going to assume he
used regular exterior ply and it is more vulnerable to moisture damage
than BS1088 or similar. If he coats it with two coats of thinned epoxy,
moisture that gets in (and it will) can not get out. Wooden boats are
best done old school with paint and sealer. A good wood primer, some
sandpaper, and a couple coats of acrylic based paint, he doesn't want to
use latex, at least on the outside, inside is ok...

Let the wood breathe and the boat will last a lot longer...

Scotty, just my opinion.


I think it depends on many things. did any scrapes or dings damage the
boat? Dragged it up on the beach and wore all the coating off the
bottom?

But your assertion that somehow moisture penetrates in through the
epoxy and can't get out just isn't logical - there is no one way
valves in the epoxy :-)


Yes, but my assertion is based on the idea that water will get in, no
matter how you handle things, eventually. Once it wicks into small
cracks and distributes itself within the encapsulation, it has a hard
time finding it's way out again, as it doesn't have GPS either

You may have had a great experience, of course you are a superior boat
builder with a golden hammer too, but most encapsulation jobs are not
100%, and like I said, once water gets in, it has a hard time finding
it's way out and can cause a lot of problems. I still say, let the wood
breath in and out, it's gonna' breath in anyway, so why not...

Scotty

--
Save the Ta'ta's!...
http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v
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Old April 15th 10, 01:32 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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Thanks for the Tips guys. The boat has normal household plywood and 2x2 for
frame.
It'll be for occaisional use. non-marine or non-treated.

Actually the wife has never been on a boat and has a fear of something, this
is a good way to educate her or face her fears. She's watching it get built.
IF she likes this one and overcomes her fears, then we'll get a "real" boat
next year.


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Old April 15th 10, 08:32 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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Posts: 2,921
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In article ,
says...

Thanks for the Tips guys. The boat has normal household plywood and 2x2 for
frame.
It'll be for occaisional use. non-marine or non-treated.

Actually the wife has never been on a boat and has a fear of something, this
is a good way to educate her or face her fears. She's watching it get built.
IF she likes this one and overcomes her fears, then we'll get a "real" boat
next year.


All the more reason to use paint and primer as opposed to expensive
resin. Some here will howl but I never spend more than 20 bucks to paint
a plywood skiff. I go to Home Depot and look for some nice beige or tan
for the inside, something flat that won't reflect or collect heat, and
something nice and shiny green or similar for the outside. I start at
the "goof" table where there is usually a nice selection of colors for
practically no $$. I am not going to spend a hundred bucks a year to
paint a boat that cost me 100 to build. I painted my house green on
green several years back, guess what color my next skiff was?

If the boat is made of better wood I will use better stuff, I have
probably used more Petit than any other for higher end stuff.

"Marine" paints are easier to use, look nicer when cured, etc, but just
not for a boat made of exterior ply. Again, just my opinion.

Scotty

--
Save the Ta'ta's!...
http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v
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Old April 15th 10, 10:36 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Apr 2010
Posts: 10
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"I am Tosk" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

Thanks for the Tips guys. The boat has normal household plywood and 2x2
for
frame.
It'll be for occaisional use. non-marine or non-treated.

Actually the wife has never been on a boat and has a fear of something,
this
is a good way to educate her or face her fears. She's watching it get
built.
IF she likes this one and overcomes her fears, then we'll get a "real"
boat
next year.


All the more reason to use paint and primer as opposed to expensive
resin. Some here will howl but I never spend more than 20 bucks to paint
a plywood skiff. I go to Home Depot and look for some nice beige or tan
for the inside, something flat that won't reflect or collect heat, and
something nice and shiny green or similar for the outside. I start at
the "goof" table where there is usually a nice selection of colors for
practically no $$. I am not going to spend a hundred bucks a year to
paint a boat that cost me 100 to build. I painted my house green on
green several years back, guess what color my next skiff was?

If the boat is made of better wood I will use better stuff, I have
probably used more Petit than any other for higher end stuff.

"Marine" paints are easier to use, look nicer when cured, etc, but just
not for a boat made of exterior ply. Again, just my opinion.

Scotty

--
Save the Ta'ta's!...
http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v


Oh, I agree. cheaper the better! LOL! I don't expect the home made boat
to last 2 seasons anyways. so far I have about $200 in supplies in it so
far.




  #16   Report Post  
Old April 16th 10, 12:42 AM posted to rec.boats.building
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Aug 2009
Posts: 184
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On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 04:04:12 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 11:20:14 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Dave wrote:
I'm building a 9 foot wooden flat bottom boat for myself and the kids.
It'
made out of 3/8" plywood from Home Depot and we're probably going to
use it
about every other weekend in the water. Where I'm at it's mostly salt
water
area (Gulf).

My question is:

Will normal Latex Exterior house paint will work?

best to seal with 2 coats of solvent thinned epoxy or moisture cured
urethane primer, then ext. latex....

paul - progressive epoxy polymers inc

With all due respect, that is not the way to go. I am going to assume he
used regular exterior ply and it is more vulnerable to moisture damage
than BS1088 or similar. If he coats it with two coats of thinned epoxy,
moisture that gets in (and it will) can not get out. Wooden boats are
best done old school with paint and sealer. A good wood primer, some
sandpaper, and a couple coats of acrylic based paint, he doesn't want to
use latex, at least on the outside, inside is ok...

Let the wood breathe and the boat will last a lot longer...

Scotty, just my opinion.


I think it depends on many things. did any scrapes or dings damage the
boat? Dragged it up on the beach and wore all the coating off the
bottom?

But your assertion that somehow moisture penetrates in through the
epoxy and can't get out just isn't logical - there is no one way
valves in the epoxy :-)


Yes, but my assertion is based on the idea that water will get in, no
matter how you handle things, eventually. Once it wicks into small
cracks and distributes itself within the encapsulation, it has a hard
time finding it's way out again, as it doesn't have GPS either

You may have had a great experience, of course you are a superior boat
builder with a golden hammer too, but most encapsulation jobs are not
100%, and like I said, once water gets in, it has a hard time finding
it's way out and can cause a lot of problems. I still say, let the wood
breath in and out, it's gonna' breath in anyway, so why not...

Scotty


You may be right but there have been thousands of plywood boats built
that were sheathed, to the best of my knowledge all of the strip
planked boats, of any size, are sheathed, a tremendous number of boats
use plywood cores in decks. All of these are coated with epoxy.
Epoxy is recommended by every paint company for sealing fiberglass
hulls after doing an osmoses treatment and grinding off the gelcoat.

This is not to say that water never, never, never, will get in but I
suggest that the boats that are epoxy coated last better and are
stronger then uncoated boats.

Whether, or not I am a "superior boat builder with a golden hammer" is
probably debatable but the recommendations I have given are all ones
that I have successfully used.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
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Old April 16th 10, 12:42 AM posted to rec.boats.building
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Posts: 184
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On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 02:35:19 -0500, cavelamb ""cavelamb\"@ X
earthlink.net" wrote:

On 4/14/2010 8:58 PM, Bruce wrote:
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 11:20:14 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:

In [email protected] .com,
says...

Dave wrote:
I'm building a 9 foot wooden flat bottom boat for myself and the kids.
It'
made out of 3/8" plywood from Home Depot and we're probably going to
use it
about every other weekend in the water. Where I'm at it's mostly salt
water
area (Gulf).

My question is:

Will normal Latex Exterior house paint will work?

best to seal with 2 coats of solvent thinned epoxy or moisture cured
urethane primer, then ext. latex....

paul - progressive epoxy polymers inc

With all due respect, that is not the way to go. I am going to assume he
used regular exterior ply and it is more vulnerable to moisture damage
than BS1088 or similar. If he coats it with two coats of thinned epoxy,
moisture that gets in (and it will) can not get out. Wooden boats are
best done old school with paint and sealer. A good wood primer, some
sandpaper, and a couple coats of acrylic based paint, he doesn't want to
use latex, at least on the outside, inside is ok...

Let the wood breathe and the boat will last a lot longer...

Scotty, just my opinion.


I think it depends on many things. did any scrapes or dings damage the
boat? Dragged it up on the beach and wore all the coating off the
bottom?

But your assertion that somehow moisture penetrates in through the
epoxy and can't get out just isn't logical - there is no one way
valves in the epoxy :-)

My own experience seems quite different from yours. For example, I
built an 8 ft. dinghy using exterior grade plywood some ten years
ago.. Tapped the joints and covered the outside of the bottom with
IIRC 400 gm cloth. The rest of the boat was painted with epoxy, epoxy
primer, two part polyurethane. Some eight years after I built it a
bloke walked by the dinghy, bottom side up in the dock in front of my
sailboat, and started to admire it. finally said, "would I sell it?".
I did immediately, and I saw the boat, now 10 years + old, still being
used just the other day.

Of course, my boat is/was used in salt water which is somewhat of a
preservative, or perhaps preventative, as far as dry rot goes, but
still, a ten year + life for a 8 ft. two sheet of plywood, dinghy does
seem satisfactory, or at least value for money.

Of course, just painting works also. I believe I have mentioned a
fishing boat they two Uncles built from exterior grade fir plywood.
Kept in the garage and used a day or two every week during fishing
season that was still usable after 15 years.

.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)



You just pushed me over the trip point, Bruce.

I' going to build a simple D5 dinghy.


The one I told the story about building 10 years ago was a D-4. I
built it hell for strong and it ended up much heavier then I would
have liked, but it was a good boat. I could haul me, mother and three
or four 20 liter jugs of water out to the boat with no problems.

I built my D-4 with the mast step and center board but I wouldn't
bother doing it again. I think I sailed the thing, maybe twice.


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
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Old April 16th 10, 01:48 AM posted to rec.boats.building
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Posts: 184
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On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 15:32:34 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Thanks for the Tips guys. The boat has normal household plywood and 2x2 for
frame.
It'll be for occaisional use. non-marine or non-treated.

Actually the wife has never been on a boat and has a fear of something, this
is a good way to educate her or face her fears. She's watching it get built.
IF she likes this one and overcomes her fears, then we'll get a "real" boat
next year.


All the more reason to use paint and primer as opposed to expensive
resin. Some here will howl but I never spend more than 20 bucks to paint
a plywood skiff. I go to Home Depot and look for some nice beige or tan
for the inside, something flat that won't reflect or collect heat, and
something nice and shiny green or similar for the outside. I start at
the "goof" table where there is usually a nice selection of colors for
practically no $$. I am not going to spend a hundred bucks a year to
paint a boat that cost me 100 to build. I painted my house green on
green several years back, guess what color my next skiff was?

If the boat is made of better wood I will use better stuff, I have
probably used more Petit than any other for higher end stuff.

"Marine" paints are easier to use, look nicer when cured, etc, but just
not for a boat made of exterior ply. Again, just my opinion.

Scotty


Different strokes for different folks :-)

I use two part polyurethane paint because the paint will last the life
of the dinghy. Barn paint gets sort of scruffy after a year or so.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
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Old April 16th 10, 01:48 AM posted to rec.boats.building
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Posts: 184
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On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 07:32:48 -0500, "Dave"
wrote:

Thanks for the Tips guys. The boat has normal household plywood and 2x2 for
frame.
It'll be for occaisional use. non-marine or non-treated.

Actually the wife has never been on a boat and has a fear of something, this
is a good way to educate her or face her fears. She's watching it get built.
IF she likes this one and overcomes her fears, then we'll get a "real" boat
next year.


If you built it from interior grade plywood it is not going to last a
long time however you certainly should get some use out of the boat,
and if this is the first boat that you have built you will probably
begin to find fault with it after a while and start to think about
"the next boat". It can become an obsession - to build the perfect
boat :-)

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
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Old April 16th 10, 02:17 AM posted to rec.boats.building
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Posts: 10
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"the next boat". It can become an obsession - to build the perfect
boat :-)

Cheers,

Bruce



OH NO! Not that! LOL!
I expect to get a couple of seasons out of this homebuilt. nothing more...
The wife already named thins little dingy craft "NsaniT"




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