wrote:

"Charles Momsen" wrote:

I have had all good experiences with Craigslist, especially with boats. They
aren't bid through the roof like eBay, aren't marked up by brokers and you
actually meet the owner. I haven't figured out how to search the whole US on
Craigslist (don't know if its even possible,


http://www.craigshelper.com/

It's a bit awkward, but less tedious than a city-by-city search

DSK

There are several other sources, of course. Check out "yachtworld.com"
for an overview of boats of all types and sizes (brokers involved). You
can limit the search as you like, e.g., to particular locations (within
100 miles of Kemah/Houston), size, type (sloop, cutter) make, age, etc.
Also, take a walk through Watergate or other marinas in the
Kemah/Seabrook area to check out boats with "for sale by owner" signs.

Jim

"JimC" wrote in message
...


Charles Momsen wrote:
"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message
...

All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from here
to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is some
lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years on a
destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the 90's,
most of my sailing was done 35 years ago.

I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a
school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't
started yet due to Ike.

My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some time
afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray.

Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive
cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat,
and sail alone with confidence.

At one time I owned a thirty footer, but never lived aboard, and most of
the maintenance was bought and paid for. I like all of the following,
but remember my experience is day sailing, for the most part, and I'm
completely ignorant of the requirements, stresses, and needs of the live
aboard.

Contessa
Westerly (Konsort)
Endeavour 32 Plan A
Cape Dory
Crealock (Pacific Seacraft)
Island Packet


Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the
live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35',
a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000.

--

jlrogers±³©

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is
the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt

"Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall
soon have neither." Benjamin Franklin



Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat
upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first. You'll probably make
mistakes at first (crashing into stuff, breaking things or doing
something that leaves a really big mark/gouge.) so get something you
could walk away from. Make your second boat count. Buy whatever is cheap
and popular in your area. You can easily resell it at a small loss and
learn so much without fear of real financial loss.


The previous suggestion (don't buy an "ideal boat" upfront) is a good one
IMO. If you intend to liveaboard, I would also suggest something a little
larger than 30 feet. I think your plan to charter various boats will give
you a good idea of what's involved and what type and size boat you may
prefer.

I'm also near Kemah, and I can verify that in this area you will find many
boats of all genries for far less than $60,000. (Try $15,000 - $30,000 for
30-35 ft. boats that would be ready to sail with minor cleanup or
upgrades.). Have it surveyed, of course. - IMO, in this price range the
condition of the boat is almost as important as the model/maker. And
although I agree that Sabres, Endeavours, Island Packets, Tartans,
Valiants, etc., are great boats, if you insist on getting one of these
"ideal" boats, you may end up paying twice as much as you would for other
boats of a the same size and condition that would be comfortable and that
you would also enjoy sailing. - It's your choice, of course.

Incidentally, my boat (a 26 ft. MacGregor) had no damage from the
hurricane, and you would be welcome to go out with me anytime this Fall.

Jim


Glad to hear all is well Jim... you had it on a trailer and left town or did
you leave it?


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:

"JimC" wrote in message
...


Charles Momsen wrote:

"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message
...


All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from here
to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is some
lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years on a
destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the 90's,
most of my sailing was done 35 years ago.

I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a
school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't
started yet due to Ike.

My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some time
afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray.

Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive
cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat,
and sail alone with confidence.

At one time I owned a thirty footer, but never lived aboard, and most of
the maintenance was bought and paid for. I like all of the following,
but remember my experience is day sailing, for the most part, and I'm
completely ignorant of the requirements, stresses, and needs of the live
aboard.

Contessa
Westerly (Konsort)
Endeavour 32 Plan A
Cape Dory
Crealock (Pacific Seacraft)
Island Packet


Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the
live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35',
a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000.

--

jlrogers±³©

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is
the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt

"Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall
soon have neither." Benjamin Franklin



Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat
upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first. You'll probably make
mistakes at first (crashing into stuff, breaking things or doing
something that leaves a really big mark/gouge.) so get something you
could walk away from. Make your second boat count. Buy whatever is cheap
and popular in your area. You can easily resell it at a small loss and
learn so much without fear of real financial loss.


The previous suggestion (don't buy an "ideal boat" upfront) is a good one
IMO. If you intend to liveaboard, I would also suggest something a little
larger than 30 feet. I think your plan to charter various boats will give
you a good idea of what's involved and what type and size boat you may
prefer.

I'm also near Kemah, and I can verify that in this area you will find many
boats of all genries for far less than $60,000. (Try $15,000 - $30,000 for
30-35 ft. boats that would be ready to sail with minor cleanup or
upgrades.). Have it surveyed, of course. - IMO, in this price range the
condition of the boat is almost as important as the model/maker. And
although I agree that Sabres, Endeavours, Island Packets, Tartans,
Valiants, etc., are great boats, if you insist on getting one of these
"ideal" boats, you may end up paying twice as much as you would for other
boats of a the same size and condition that would be comfortable and that
you would also enjoy sailing. - It's your choice, of course.

Incidentally, my boat (a 26 ft. MacGregor) had no damage from the
hurricane, and you would be welcome to go out with me anytime this Fall.

Jim



Glad to hear all is well Jim... you had it on a trailer and left town or did
you leave it?


Thanks. Yes, we were in a "mandatory evacuation" area, and we spent the
night with relatives. The boat is in the water at one of the local
marinas. I tied double lines to the risers (slideable vertically on rods
connected to pilings), and apparently that was enough. The water-line
(trash line) from the storm surge was around 8-10 feet above normal
levels.

Jim

"JimC" wrote in message
...


Capt. JG wrote:

"JimC" wrote in message
...


Charles Momsen wrote:

"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message
.. .


All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from
here to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is
some lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years
on a destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the
90's, most of my sailing was done 35 years ago.

I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a
school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't
started yet due to Ike.

My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some
time afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray.

Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive
cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat,
and sail alone with confidence.

At one time I owned a thirty footer, but never lived aboard, and most
of the maintenance was bought and paid for. I like all of the
following, but remember my experience is day sailing, for the most
part, and I'm completely ignorant of the requirements, stresses, and
needs of the live aboard.

Contessa
Westerly (Konsort)
Endeavour 32 Plan A
Cape Dory
Crealock (Pacific Seacraft)
Island Packet


Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the
live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and
35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000.

--

jlrogers±³©

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is
the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt

"Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security
shall soon have neither." Benjamin Franklin



Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat
upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first. You'll probably make
mistakes at first (crashing into stuff, breaking things or doing
something that leaves a really big mark/gouge.) so get something you
could walk away from. Make your second boat count. Buy whatever is cheap
and popular in your area. You can easily resell it at a small loss and
learn so much without fear of real financial loss.


The previous suggestion (don't buy an "ideal boat" upfront) is a good one
IMO. If you intend to liveaboard, I would also suggest something a little
larger than 30 feet. I think your plan to charter various boats will give
you a good idea of what's involved and what type and size boat you may
prefer.

I'm also near Kemah, and I can verify that in this area you will find
many boats of all genries for far less than $60,000. (Try $15,000 -
$30,000 for 30-35 ft. boats that would be ready to sail with minor
cleanup or upgrades.). Have it surveyed, of course. - IMO, in this price
range the condition of the boat is almost as important as the
model/maker. And although I agree that Sabres, Endeavours, Island
Packets, Tartans, Valiants, etc., are great boats, if you insist on
getting one of these "ideal" boats, you may end up paying twice as much
as you would for other boats of a the same size and condition that would
be comfortable and that you would also enjoy sailing. - It's your choice,
of course.

Incidentally, my boat (a 26 ft. MacGregor) had no damage from the
hurricane, and you would be welcome to go out with me anytime this Fall.

Jim



Glad to hear all is well Jim... you had it on a trailer and left town or
did you leave it?


Thanks. Yes, we were in a "mandatory evacuation" area, and we spent the
night with relatives. The boat is in the water at one of the local
marinas. I tied double lines to the risers (slideable vertically on rods
connected to pilings), and apparently that was enough. The water-line
(trash line) from the storm surge was around 8-10 feet above normal
levels.

Jim


Glad all is ok... can't imagine what it was like. All we have are
earthquakes. :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On 27 Sep, 14:13, jlrogers±³© wrote:
..... Expenses become a factor in the whole context of JL's
life which only he can determine himself.

Economics is a factor, isn't it always? A year ago when I gave my notice,
my retirement budget was 20% greater than it is today. Current economic
conditions have made me a lot more conservative.


You are not alone. I've got several freinds who have seen their
retirement
plans evaporate. For some of them the damage is more like
80% than 20%. It's quite scary.

I've been reading the discussion between Doug and Charles with some
interest. They both have very good points to make.

If you don't have much experience in the various boats
that you are looking at, then I would advise the
"cheap" boat route. As you asked the question in the
first place, I suspect that don't know the boats very well.

Whatever you do, do not kit the boat out for long
distance cruising until you are happy that you are
comfortable living on it.



Regards


Donal
--

"JimC" wrote in message
...


Charles Momsen wrote:
"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message
...

All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from here
to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is some
lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years on a
destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the 90's,
most of my sailing was done 35 years ago.

I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a
school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't
started yet due to Ike.

My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some time
afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray.

Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive
cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat,
and sail alone with confidence.

At one time I owned a thirty footer, but never lived aboard, and most of
the maintenance was bought and paid for. I like all of the following,
but remember my experience is day sailing, for the most part, and I'm
completely ignorant of the requirements, stresses, and needs of the live
aboard.

Contessa
Westerly (Konsort)
Endeavour 32 Plan A
Cape Dory
Crealock (Pacific Seacraft)
Island Packet


Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the
live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35',
a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000.

--

jlrogers±³©

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is
the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt

"Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall
soon have neither." Benjamin Franklin



Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat
upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first. You'll probably make
mistakes at first (crashing into stuff, breaking things or doing
something that leaves a really big mark/gouge.) so get something you
could walk away from. Make your second boat count. Buy whatever is cheap
and popular in your area. You can easily resell it at a small loss and
learn so much without fear of real financial loss.


The previous suggestion (don't buy an "ideal boat" upfront) is a good one
IMO. If you intend to liveaboard, I would also suggest something a little
larger than 30 feet. I think your plan to charter various boats will give
you a good idea of what's involved and what type and size boat you may
prefer.

I'm also near Kemah, and I can verify that in this area you will find many
boats of all genries for far less than $60,000. (Try $15,000 - $30,000 for
30-35 ft. boats that would be ready to sail with minor cleanup or
upgrades.). Have it surveyed, of course. - IMO, in this price range the
condition of the boat is almost as important as the model/maker. And
although I agree that Sabres, Endeavours, Island Packets, Tartans,
Valiants, etc., are great boats, if you insist on getting one of these
"ideal" boats, you may end up paying twice as much as you would for other
boats of a the same size and condition that would be comfortable and that
you would also enjoy sailing. - It's your choice, of course.

Incidentally, my boat (a 26 ft. MacGregor) had no damage from the
hurricane, and you would be welcome to go out with me anytime this Fall.

Jim

Thank you. Just got back from Houston today, but didn't even try to get
down to the coast..figure they have enough problems without a bunch of
rubber neckers hanging out. Did have lunch with a guy who lives on Clear
Lake. He is down from 4 boats to one.

"JimC" wrote in message
...


Capt. JG wrote:

"JimC" wrote in message
...


Charles Momsen wrote:

"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message
.. .


All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from
here to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is
some lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years
on a destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the
90's, most of my sailing was done 35 years ago.

I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a
school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't
started yet due to Ike.

My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some
time afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray.

Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive
cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat,
and sail alone with confidence.

At one time I owned a thirty footer, but never lived aboard, and most
of the maintenance was bought and paid for. I like all of the
following, but remember my experience is day sailing, for the most
part, and I'm completely ignorant of the requirements, stresses, and
needs of the live aboard.

Contessa
Westerly (Konsort)
Endeavour 32 Plan A
Cape Dory
Crealock (Pacific Seacraft)
Island Packet


Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the
live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and
35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000.

--

jlrogers±³©

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is
the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt

"Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security
shall soon have neither." Benjamin Franklin



Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat
upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first. You'll probably make
mistakes at first (crashing into stuff, breaking things or doing
something that leaves a really big mark/gouge.) so get something you
could walk away from. Make your second boat count. Buy whatever is cheap
and popular in your area. You can easily resell it at a small loss and
learn so much without fear of real financial loss.


The previous suggestion (don't buy an "ideal boat" upfront) is a good one
IMO. If you intend to liveaboard, I would also suggest something a little
larger than 30 feet. I think your plan to charter various boats will give
you a good idea of what's involved and what type and size boat you may
prefer.

I'm also near Kemah, and I can verify that in this area you will find
many boats of all genries for far less than $60,000. (Try $15,000 -
$30,000 for 30-35 ft. boats that would be ready to sail with minor
cleanup or upgrades.). Have it surveyed, of course. - IMO, in this price
range the condition of the boat is almost as important as the
model/maker. And although I agree that Sabres, Endeavours, Island
Packets, Tartans, Valiants, etc., are great boats, if you insist on
getting one of these "ideal" boats, you may end up paying twice as much
as you would for other boats of a the same size and condition that would
be comfortable and that you would also enjoy sailing. - It's your choice,
of course.

Incidentally, my boat (a 26 ft. MacGregor) had no damage from the
hurricane, and you would be welcome to go out with me anytime this Fall.

Jim



Glad to hear all is well Jim... you had it on a trailer and left town or
did you leave it?


Thanks. Yes, we were in a "mandatory evacuation" area, and we spent the
night with relatives. The boat is in the water at one of the local
marinas. I tied double lines to the risers (slideable vertically on rods
connected to pilings), and apparently that was enough. The water-line
(trash line) from the storm surge was around 8-10 feet above normal
levels.

Jim

I was told that around Clear Lake and Kemah that those boats tied to
floating docks did much better than those tied to pilings and fixed docks or
were on the hard.

jlrogers±³© wrote:

"JimC" wrote in message
...



Capt. JG wrote:

"JimC" wrote in message
...


Charles Momsen wrote:

"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message
...


All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing
from here to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only
experience is some lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico
experience, and four years on a destroyer in the navy. And,
except for a couple of years in the 90's, most of my sailing was
done 35 years ago.

I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at
a school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but
haven't started yet due to Ike.

My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend
some time afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray.

Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively
inexpensive cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard,
maintain the boat, and sail alone with confidence.

At one time I owned a thirty footer, but never lived aboard, and
most of the maintenance was bought and paid for. I like all of
the following, but remember my experience is day sailing, for the
most part, and I'm completely ignorant of the requirements,
stresses, and needs of the live aboard.

Contessa
Westerly (Konsort)
Endeavour 32 Plan A
Cape Dory
Crealock (Pacific Seacraft)
Island Packet


Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for
the live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between
28 and 35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000.

--

jlrogers±³©

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William
Pitt

"Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security
shall soon have neither." Benjamin Franklin



Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat
upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first. You'll probably make
mistakes at first (crashing into stuff, breaking things or doing
something that leaves a really big mark/gouge.) so get something
you could walk away from. Make your second boat count. Buy whatever
is cheap and popular in your area. You can easily resell it at a
small loss and learn so much without fear of real financial loss.



The previous suggestion (don't buy an "ideal boat" upfront) is a
good one IMO. If you intend to liveaboard, I would also suggest
something a little larger than 30 feet. I think your plan to charter
various boats will give you a good idea of what's involved and what
type and size boat you may prefer.

I'm also near Kemah, and I can verify that in this area you will
find many boats of all genries for far less than $60,000. (Try
$15,000 - $30,000 for 30-35 ft. boats that would be ready to sail
with minor cleanup or upgrades.). Have it surveyed, of course. -
IMO, in this price range the condition of the boat is almost as
important as the model/maker. And although I agree that Sabres,
Endeavours, Island Packets, Tartans, Valiants, etc., are great
boats, if you insist on getting one of these "ideal" boats, you may
end up paying twice as much as you would for other boats of a the
same size and condition that would be comfortable and that you would
also enjoy sailing. - It's your choice, of course.

Incidentally, my boat (a 26 ft. MacGregor) had no damage from the
hurricane, and you would be welcome to go out with me anytime this
Fall.

Jim




Glad to hear all is well Jim... you had it on a trailer and left town
or did you leave it?


Thanks. Yes, we were in a "mandatory evacuation" area, and we spent
the night with relatives. The boat is in the water at one of the local
marinas. I tied double lines to the risers (slideable vertically on
rods connected to pilings), and apparently that was enough. The
water-line (trash line) from the storm surge was around 8-10 feet
above normal levels.

Jim


I was told that around Clear Lake and Kemah that those boats tied to
floating docks did much better than those tied to pilings and fixed
docks or were on the hard.

That may be, although our marina (Legend Point) doesn't have floating
docks and we seemed to have relatively little damage. (Although the boat
two slips down was damaged when the piling to which it was attached was
broken in two at the waterline during the storm, leaving the stern of
that boat with no protection such that it became jammed against the
intermediate boat and partially rolled over.)

Jim

"Charles Momsen" wrote in message
...

Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the
live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35',
a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000.


Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat
upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first. You'll probably make
mistakes at first (crashing into stuff, breaking things or doing something
that leaves a really big mark/gouge.) so get something you could walk away
from. Make your second boat count. Buy whatever is cheap and popular in
your area. You can easily resell it at a small loss and learn so much
without fear of real financial loss.


On Sept 25 the DJIA was at about 11,000.

Today, Nov 20 it sits below 8,000.

Down 27% in less than 2 months, down 43% from its high.

There are a lot of Americans pinching pennies today.

If you have the money, now is the time to start looking for a good value
boat.

You'll find Pacific Seacrafts (they stopped making the Dana again) and other
quality boats on the chopping block.

Great time to buy a Mitsubishi Evo too, no one else is and dealers are
willing to bargain.

Stores are virtually empty, resort areas barren, prices for goods, food and
fuel are dropping.

People are willing to work harder for less.

For $60K you can get your dream boat of a lifetime.

Go for it!