dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:28:50 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

Trust me, I've spent a lot of time under, over and around booms, and have
always disliked getting waked as much as anyone else, especially when
closing on a finish line in light air.

The fact is however that wakes and waves are part of being on the water,
and no one should expect a powerboat to slow down just to improve their
comfort level or finish position.

that's obvious...but not to the point...the discussion was about the
ignorant and arrogant who pilot their stinktubs with what could be
described as a less than cooperative spirit...like the moron described by
the OP.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:48:27 -0500, "Scotty" wrote:

Yes, it must be so difficult for you to turn that wheel a
bit. Do you have limp wrists?

Would you tack in front of a freighter or cruise ship and expect them
to alter course for you? The issues are the same, only on a different
scale.

See Colregs Rule 17 (a) (i)

Rule 17

Action by Stand-on Vessel

(a)

(i) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way of the other
shall keep her course and speed.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Nov 7, 9:19 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
... Interestingly, the online version omits the "and shapes". I assume you were
looking at the book which I was going to do the next time I go down to the
boat. ...

I was looking at my book which is current as of Jan 2003. I type this
from my pilot house so it is easy to grab. I notice you are right
that the online version has dropped "and shapes" but if you download
the pdf it is still in there...

While I'm scraping the egg off my face, I want to point out that
google groups has been kind of randomizing my posts. A couple of
posts that I didn't think had gone out just appeared and a couple that
I though I sent are still in the aether... It is kind of embarrassing
to apologize for getting a point wrong only to have another one of my
posts pop-up making the same wrong point. If any more of them appear
saying that the shapes are required please ignore them; I'm not
trying to be difficult or bone headed.

-- Tom.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

This is really not a discussion between sailboaters and powerboaters;
its a discussion between boaters who are normally at 8 knots or less,
and those who are over 10 knots.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 08:19:42 -0500, jeff wrote:

Spoken like a true powerboater. While that may make sense to you,
sailors can generally say, "I get rolled often by irresponsible
powerboaters, and I've never rolled anyone."

The problem is that many sailors think that all powerboaters leaving a
wake are irresponsible just because the wake inconveniences them in
some way,

I'm sure there are a few sailors that think all powerboaters are scum of
the Earth, but I don't think is widely held. However, I firmly believe
that powerboaters tend to subconsciously alter course to pass in front
of other boats rather than pass behind them. In fact, this will
happpen to me several times a day: a powerboat that is on course to pass
well behind me alters course and passes close ahead of me.

and don't even get me started on sailboats who expect the
right-of-way while under power,

In years of sailing in a crowded harbor, I've only seen them demand room
like this a few times. The recreation fishers who claim rights as
"fishing boats" probably outnumbers them a hundred to one.

or who suddenly tack in front of a
moving powerboat and demand the right-of-way.

I admit I've seen this often, but its almost always inexperienced kids
who naively assume that the powerboaters appreciate their needs. When I
left from or returned to my old marina I passed by four sailing schools;
I could pretty much count on at least one boat of kids tacking in front
of me. Away from the schools I hardly ever see this. In fact, the only
places where I often see it is where there are small sailboats near
their moorings or docks.

Fortunately most of
them seem to understand that five blasts on the air horn is a danger
signal.

If you did that near one of the aforementioned youth programs, you'd
probably have a police boat on your butt real quick!

My other pet peeve is sailboats who don't know how to analyze
a crossing situation, not realizing that I've already altered course
to pass astern of them.

Clearly this is your fault:

"Any alteration of course and/or speed to avoid collision shall, if
the circumstances of the case admit, be large enough to be readily
apparent to another vessel observing visually or by radar; a succession
of small alterations of course and/or speed should be avoided."

Frankly, one of my pet peeves is powerboats approaching at very high
speed, making a long gradual turn, and somehow assuming that I'll be
able to figure out what they're doing, and somehow react to it.
Inevitably, they end up crossing my bow at 35 knots.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:44:40 -0500, "Scotty"
wrote:

It is
not written in stone anywhere that the water will
always
be flat.


It *IS* written in the books that YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE
FOR
YOUR WAKE !

Responsible for damage.

No blood, no foul.

....no class

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:44:40 -0500, "Scotty"
wrote:

Some people roll me, and some get rolled by me.


You *ARE* responsible for your wake!


It's part of boating and being on the water.

It's a part of BAD boating, and being on the water with
ignorant, arrogant power boaters.

Nonsense. Have you ever seen the wake from a freighter or
fast tug
boat? If so you'll never complain about sportfish or
motoryachts.



Big ships and tugs don't pass within 20 feet at full speed
like some stinkpotters do.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:48:27 -0500, "Scotty"
wrote:

Yes, it must be so difficult for you to turn that wheel a
bit. Do you have limp wrists?

Would you tack in front of a freighter or cruise ship and
expect them
to alter course for you?


Of course not, don't be ridiculous. Not germane to this
discussion.



The issues are the same,



Hardly!


only on a different
scale.


Oh, the same but different, huh?


Stop making excuses for your childish actions.

SBV

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 07:38:46 -0500, "mr.b" wrote this
crap:

Capt JG was in a 32 ft, seaworthy, ocean going sailboat, in open

Who said it was seaworthy? :-) Certainly it isn't ocean capable.

Are you nuts? A 32 ft. Hunter is certainly ocean capable.

yes it is amazing how much tupperware has improved since it was first sold

I used to take my 25 ft. Hunter out in storm warnings, where you would
**** your pants. I was once out in 60 mph winds. The boat loved it, even
if the crew didn't.

of course you did...I'll bet you even had a special nook built into the
lazarette to stow the wheelbarrow you had to use to get your gigantic
balls aboard too...yawn....


Yes, I had an extra compartment, but it was to hold more beer.




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 08:56:50 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote this crap:

I sure as shootin wouldn't take these Hunters out the Gate unless the
conditions were benign... they're not off-shore capable.


You're an idiot. I've gone through storms that would have you tied to
the mast, puking your guts into your purse.

I took third place in a race during one of those storms.




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

We are very often running on autopilot and the AP will not swing the
boat fast enough to make this kind of course correction.


Dave wrote:
I also often run on autopilot, but don't generally have a problem making a
substantial course change fairly quickly to avoid another vessel.

While our tugboat has a large rudder for a powerboat, it's still
smaller than a sailboat rudder. Meanwhile we are also going faster
than most sailboats ....although not by much.... ;)


.... It's all
relative, of course. If you wait until the moment before collision, then
yes, the autopilot isn't going to do the trick. But the give way vessel
shouldn't often have that problem.

Agreed.

.... It should change course in plenty of
time, and with a sufficient change, so there will be no mistake about its
intentions.

Therein lies the rub. Our autopilot won't put the helm over fast
enough for a dramatic alteration of course, one that the other skipper
can't help but notice.

... And yes, sometimes you may even decide to disconnect the
autopilot if things are going to get sticky. I often do that if I'm in an
area where there isn't room to make a big course change early.

Our autopilot's only control is a wired remote. My policy is that when
AP is engaged, the helmsperson must hold the remote in his/her hand at
all times. Not much of a hardship since the cord is long enough to
reach anywhere in reason, but we can make helm corrections or cut out
the AP instantly if needed... for example, when an upbound towboat
captain pushing a 6x8 has just told us to pass on two whistles. Even
here on the lazy inland rivers, you have to keep on your toes!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King