"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Richard,

I raced in the Cruising Class for years, finishing as high
as third BUT
I never had as much fun as when I had a novice female
crew. They didn't
give a **** where we finished as long as they where
sailing and
relaxing. There were times when the Tender had to wait for
us to turn a
mark so that they could pick up the buoy.

My advice, for what's it worth is; ENJOY YOURSELF, train
your crew but
be a easy captain to sail with.

Some Downwind tips. In light air, set your Jib & Main wing
on wing;


Isn't W-W the slowest sail set one can make?




Scotty




Not down wind...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

Isn't W-W the slowest sail set one can make?




Scotty




Not down wind...


Well Duh! I didn't think he meant W-W close hauled!

SBV

Isn't W-W the slowest sail set one can make?


Not down wind...


Well Duh! I didn't think he meant W-W close hauled!



Jax could do it!

DSK

Doug,

If you Set a Spinn. there isn't a need to Wing out but in the Cruising
Class you aren't allowed a Spinn.

Scotty,

W-W doesn't mean you have to sail Dead Downwind. If you have your sails
set properly you can increase Downwind Speed by Broad reaching with your
Jib drawing with the wind coming over the leech as the leading edge
going Downwind. If you've never done it you've got a surprise waiting
for you. Try it!

Doug,
Ice Boats sail faster than the wind and they're apparent wind is always
behind them when they are in a groove. They are always sailing downwind.
The wind doesn't shift foreward it shift aft.

This doesn't happen with a displacement hull but if you get the Displ.
hull going you do get an increase in the Apparent Wind,
which will exceed the speed of the true wind. If you don't have to go to
far off course to build this higher apparent wind, you can get to the
Leeward Mark quicker. Even the America's Cupper, with Spinn. steer off
line and Gybe to the opposite Broad reach going downwind. Its faster.

Doug,

I said it wrong. The Apparent wind does swing forward. The Ice Boat
never see a run when in the groove. Sorry

Richard wrote:
It's a handicap race. I remember our skipper working hard to cross the
finish less than 3-1/2 mins behind the guy in front. We were about 3
mins behind, so beat him.


By that time, the other boat had already had their fun.
You can see what I mean about one-design racing being a better
learning venue, though... imagaine running a foot race against a guy 3
1/2 minutes ahead of you... you can't tell if you're gaining or losing
ground; no feedback.

Furthermore, sailing against different types of boats will not show
you the best trim & pointing angles at which to sail your own boat. In
a one-design class, when somebody is beating you, you copy him. In a
handicap class, you might not be better off emulating another's
sailing techniques. Difficult. But then that is not helpful advice
here, sorry I had to vent a little.



..... I do have access to two different marinas with weekly
classes at several levels, so a flyer or ad on their bulletin bords
seems a good idea.


That will be a good way to get people on the boat. One suggestion I
have for practice sails- have some definite drills & goals, but also
mix it up and have fun. Rotate positions on the boat. You'll learn a
lot by standing back, giving somebody else the helm, and watching what
happens either good or bad.

Another thing that may be possible is to get a winning skipper to come
for a few sails with you as an informal coach.



I'm getting a feel for rigging and getting in a groove upwind

Pointing versus footing? Shifting gears for lulls, waves, traffic?
Depowering when it's gusty?

Let me rephrase: On a beginner *Sailing 101* level, I've got the idea.
But in this area, I'm nowhere near ready for the big time.


Pointing means to go at a tighter angle into the wind; footing means
to bear away a little and let the boat go faster (but at a wider
angle). Somewhere between is the fastest course upwind.

From a dead-in-water stop, obviously the boat will accelerate more on
a reach than pointed up onto a tight close-hauled course. Intuitive!

But it also reveals a good way to get upwind the fastest... accelerate
the boat then slowly trim slightly tighter and point slightly higher
while trying to lose no speed. When the boat slows a tiny bit, bear
away a little and re-accelerate the boat, repeat the proces of
'squeezing' the boat upwind. It takes constant attention to helm and
sail trim, which is the difference between racing sailing and
daysailing... but it's also many boatlengths of distance at the
windward mark.

When you hit a lull in the wind, or some bigger waves, again-
acclerate the boat then bring it to a higher pointing angle in tiny
increments.

Most beginning sailing classes teach to pull the sails in tight, cleat
them, then point the boat upwind until they luff slightly, then bear
away until they stop luffing. That will in fact get you upwind, but in
a race you'll be looking at a lot of transoms. Constant easing &
trimming also gives the crew something to do.


but
have no clue what I'm doing downwind. (If the strategy is anything but
head for the downwind mark, I'm not sure what course(s) to steer and
why.)

Again, a complex subject. Basically you maximize VMG according to what
options the apparent wind gives you. It's the opposite of sailing
upwind (duh) in that you *want* to go into a header. You go up in the
lulls, down in the gusts. When the is powered up just aim at the mark.

And I've read this, but know that I don't "feel" it yet. Working on
this.


Have you heard "when in doubt, let it out?" Age-old rule of thumb for
downwind sailing.

A more advanced technique is to sail upwind the reverse of the way you
sail downwind. Instead of looking for lifts, you follow headers. You
bring the boat to a reach for acceleration, then try to get the boat
aimed as much downwind as you can without losing that speed.

Going upwind, when you hit a lull, you bear away. Going downwind, when
you hit a lull, you head up.... in both cases you are looking for
speed which you can then turn into VMG towards the next mark or bouy.

A big difference in upwind vs downwind sailing is that this little
game of zig-zag never stops when beating; for going downwind it gets
easier the stronger the wind blows. When the boat can go hull speed
DDW then you will be looking for waves to surf and thinking about
reefing, not reaching up for better VMG.


Again, thanks for your time and insights!

You're welcome. The next best thing to sailing is talking about it.


Ringmaster wrote:
You read the rules. That's more than most people do before they show
up the first time. Like Doug said you sound like an organized
person. Remember it will probably take you an entire season to get
the boat up to speed. Don't get frustrated. Don't motor back to the
dock ****ed off. Have fun.

WINNING IS FUN, DAMMIT!

But you're right, enjoy the whole experience. There is absolutely
nothing that is half so much worth doing as piddling around racing
sailboats.

BTW Richard, you could do well to get Ringmater's advice on finding &
training a crew. C'mon Loco helo the guy out!

DSK

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

Isn't W-W the slowest sail set one can make?




Scotty




Not down wind...


Well Duh! I didn't think he meant W-W close hauled!

SBV




You didn't?


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 06:49:24 -0700, wrote this
crap:

even the America's Cup guys are
happy to just aim the boat straight downwind.... never seen one go
wing-and-wing but they probably would


Never! They use spinnakers.





I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Doug,
Ice Boats sail faster than the wind and they're apparent wind is
always
behind them when they are in a groove. They are always sailing
downwind.
The wind doesn't shift foreward it shift aft.
This doesn't happen with a displacement hull but if you get the Displ.
hull going you do get an increase in the Apparent Wind,
which will exceed the speed of the true wind. If you don't have to go
to
far off course to build this higher apparent wind, you can get to the
Leeward Mark quicker. Even the America's Cupper, with Spinn. steer off
line and Gybe to the opposite Broad reach going downwind. Its faster.


Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaha hahahahhahahahahahahahah!
What a retard. Claims to have sailed 67 years and never managed to
realize what apparent wind is. No wonder a pilothouse motor sailer was
the boat of choice. Only in Thom's world is the wind always coming from
behind. In other words - La la land!

Wilbur Hubbard











JML Sigs