wrote in message
oups.com...
"Capt. JG" wrote:
I'm not sure I'd consider the cringles mainsheet control. They don't
really
contribute to it.


Sure they do.
If you're talking about shape controls, then they only affect the
shape in a negative way. But they certainly control the main, they
keep the reefed section bundled up & control it from blowing all over
the place.

Well, the only time I use the cringles is when I have my second reef in. For
the first reef, they aren't used and the sail is unaffected.


Downhaul.. as in using cunningham?


Same thing for shape, but different controls. The hand brake or
parking brake is different from the regular brake on your car, right?

The cunningham is esentially a rule cheater. It provides a way to
increase luff tension without pulling the sail outside the black
bands.

I guess if we're talking about racing...


You're right, technically, that the backstay adjustments affect the mast
directly, but the effect is to change the shape of the main (and jib I
suppose).

How about boom brake or jibe-preventer? :-)


I'd consider that a "control line" but don't like them and have never
used them on a boat I was skippering. If you can't avoid gybing, or
keep control of the boom when gybing, then you need practice on the
helm & sheet!
OTOH for a long cruise with a windvane or autopilot, they are useful
but in the way.

They work great for any reasonable length of time... I wouldn't bother for
just a few minutes, but the preventer is easy to rig and unrig, and is worth
it in shifting wind.

DSK




--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

The cunningham is esentially a rule cheater. It provides a way to
increase luff tension without pulling the sail outside the black
bands.

"Capt. JG" wrote:
I guess if we're talking about racing...


Or a sail that is cut so it has no room to increase luff tension- for
example, if the head is at full hoist and the gooseneck is fixed. Luff
tension is luff tension. If you can't get it by pulling the top
tighter, then you have to pull the bottom... and if the bottom is
fixed, then you need a cunningham.

BTW a lot of new sails are made with the tack free to float up & down
as tension is adjusted.... not fixed to the gooseneck.

BTW 2 if you have a sail that need the cunningham pulled on in light
air, then that sail is blown (or the luff boltrope has shrunk).





How about boom brake or jibe-preventer? :-)

I'd consider that a "control line" but don't like them and have never
used them on a boat I was skippering. If you can't avoid gybing, or
keep control of the boom when gybing, then you need practice on the
helm & sheet!
OTOH for a long cruise with a windvane or autopilot, they are useful
but in the way.

They work great for any reasonable length of time... I wouldn't bother for
just a few minutes, but the preventer is easy to rig and unrig, and is worth
it in shifting wind.


So is PAYING ATTENTION

I've known of two incidents where boats got in big trouble with a
preventer rigged. One ended up gybing anyway, turning about 120
degrees and getting stuffed when the main went aback; the other
narrowly missed getting run down by a large tow as the skipper tried
to direct the crew how to unrig the preventer quickly so he could
turn. Both cases were of course caused by inattention, not the
preventer. But the preventer doesn't do anything a good helmsman can't
do.

The times I've sailed other people's boats with preventers rigged, it
always seemed more in the way than helpful.

DSK

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:26:01 -0700, wrote this
crap:

The cunningham is esentially a rule cheater. It provides a way to
increase luff tension without pulling the sail outside the black
bands.


Or a sail that is cut so it has no room to increase luff tension- for
example, if the head is at full hoist and the gooseneck is fixed. Luff
tension is luff tension. If you can't get it by pulling the top
tighter, then you have to pull the bottom... and if the bottom is
fixed, then you need a cunningham.

BTW a lot of new sails are made with the tack free to float up & down
as tension is adjusted.... not fixed to the gooseneck.

BTW 2 if you have a sail that need the cunningham pulled on in light
air, then that sail is blown (or the luff boltrope has shrunk).


On your little boats. If you have a 60 ft. mast, like I do, it's not
easy to adjust main halyard tension. Or, during the race, the main
halyard stretches. Either way, a cunningham is easy to adjust.





I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

Thom Stewart wrote:
Flattening Reef

That's kind of an old-fashioned thing, isn't it?

There are a lot of boats out there with only one reef point in the
main anyway

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On Sep 27, 9:12 pm, wrote:
....... As far as "real", everybody in usenet is essentially a sockpuppet
regardless of what name they use.

True in one way perhaps.

Very much not true in another.


Ganz and Bart are no more "real" than anybody
else here. Usenet is all ones and zeros.

Everything on your computer is ones & zeroes, bud. Not just Usenet.

I have met Bart and Ganz, they are very much real. And more to the
point, they are both good sailors.


Doug "Reality ain't what it used to be" King

wrote in message
oups.com...
The cunningham is esentially a rule cheater. It provides a way to
increase luff tension without pulling the sail outside the black
bands.

"Capt. JG" wrote:
I guess if we're talking about racing...


Or a sail that is cut so it has no room to increase luff tension- for
example, if the head is at full hoist and the gooseneck is fixed. Luff
tension is luff tension. If you can't get it by pulling the top
tighter, then you have to pull the bottom... and if the bottom is
fixed, then you need a cunningham.

BTW a lot of new sails are made with the tack free to float up & down
as tension is adjusted.... not fixed to the gooseneck.

BTW 2 if you have a sail that need the cunningham pulled on in light
air, then that sail is blown (or the luff boltrope has shrunk).





How about boom brake or jibe-preventer? :-)

I'd consider that a "control line" but don't like them and have never
used them on a boat I was skippering. If you can't avoid gybing, or
keep control of the boom when gybing, then you need practice on the
helm & sheet!
OTOH for a long cruise with a windvane or autopilot, they are useful
but in the way.

They work great for any reasonable length of time... I wouldn't bother
for
just a few minutes, but the preventer is easy to rig and unrig, and is
worth
it in shifting wind.


So is PAYING ATTENTION

I agree that paying attention is the most important factor, but on downwind
runs of an hour or so, a small mistake can translate into a big problem. The
preventer is perfect for that. This is especially true when inexperienced
people are at the helm, which is fairly routine if I'm teaching.


I've known of two incidents where boats got in big trouble with a
preventer rigged. One ended up gybing anyway, turning about 120
degrees and getting stuffed when the main went aback; the other
narrowly missed getting run down by a large tow as the skipper tried
to direct the crew how to unrig the preventer quickly so he could
turn. Both cases were of course caused by inattention, not the
preventer. But the preventer doesn't do anything a good helmsman can't
do.

I've seen this happen also... or similar anyway, but a preventer does do
something even a good helmsman can't do... not require 100% focus for
several days or hours. Even an excellent helmsman needs a pee break from
time to time.

The times I've sailed other people's boats with preventers rigged, it
always seemed more in the way than helpful.

DSK


I would qualify that by saying "many times" instead of always.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 27, 9:12 pm, wrote:
....... As far as "real", everybody in usenet is essentially a sockpuppet
regardless of what name they use.

True in one way perhaps.

Very much not true in another.


Ganz and Bart are no more "real" than anybody
else here. Usenet is all ones and zeros.

Everything on your computer is ones & zeroes, bud. Not just Usenet.

I have met Bart and Ganz, they are very much real. And more to the
point, they are both good sailors.


Doug "Reality ain't what it used to be" King



And, I've met Doug and he's a very good sailor as well. Also, he has good
table manners.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote:
I've seen this happen also... or similar anyway, but a preventer does do
something even a good helmsman can't do... not require 100% focus for
several days or hours. Even an excellent helmsman needs a pee break from
time to time.


True.

That's why it should *always* be school time when sailing. GIving
other people practice and coaching; and getting coaching from others
who have skills you want to develop, is one of the best parts of
sailing IMHO. and it means that you should always have a relief helms-
person.

The times I've sailed other people's boats with preventers rigged, it
always seemed more in the way than helpful.


"Capt. JG" wrote:
I would qualify that by saying "many times" instead of always.


Agreed. I could also say "in my limited experience" since my
experience has been limited to the times when it was more in the
way

DSK

On Sep 27, 5:14 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Terry K" wrote in message

ps.com...



On Sep 27, 4:31 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Bart" wrote in message

roups.com...

Not counting the halyard and mainsheet,
I can think of 12 other mainsail control
lines. What am I thinking of? [1 pt]

Hmmm... traveler, outhaul, cunningham, reefing lines (x3), leech line,
topping lift, boom vang, adjustable backstay, preventer, lazy jacks (or
Dutchman or StackPak), furling line (for boom or main), perhaps a boom
bolt
rope, I've heard of batten control lines.

--
"j" ganz

You forgot chokers for each reef point, which loosen between the mast
track and halyard tack below the reef tack allowing the sail to set
smoother at the foot and permit adjusting the cunningham or gooseneck
downhaul while reefed. The traveler includes 3 adjustments: the main
sheet and the port and stbd traveler control lines.

All this presupposes a marconi rig. There are many other main sail
types, which include other control lines, one of which I believe would
be called a gullet. What does it do?

Another would be a brace.

Another would be a parrel, one of possibly 7 or 8, What does it do, to
what sort of sail?

Remember to think global and act local.

Terry K

He asked for 12, which is what I gave him (or thereabouts).

--
"j" ganz

More is good isn't it Jon.

I can think of at least one more.

On Sep 27, 9:12 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:34:13 -0700, (Thom Stewart) wrote:
OK Salty;

Take Ganz's List and then add;
Hmmm... traveler, outhaul, cunningham, reefing lines (x3), leech line,
topping lift, boom vang, adjustable backstay, preventer, lazy jacks (or
Dutchman or StackPak), furling line (for boom or main), perhaps a boom
bolt
rope, I've heard of batten control lines.
---------
Flattening Reef, Downhaul or Barber haul on down for Broad Reach or Run,
Jack Stays (Port & Starboard) Upper Shrouds (P&S) Lower Shrouds(P&S)
Adjustable Mast Foot, Fore Stay.

These are all adjustments for Maconi Main. I wouldn't even know where to
start on a Junk Sail or even a Lateen Sail (I learned to sail with a
Lateen)

Salty, if you really need to know what & how to adjust; post me off
group. I don't want to be in a discussion with a Sockpuppet. I know Bart
& Ganz to be real.

I don't need any help with this subject, thank you. I just wanted tto point out
that your answer wasn't serving the basic purpose of teaching those who don't
know. As far as "real", everybody in usenet is essentially a sockpuppet
regardless of what name they use. Ganz and Bart are no more "real" than anybody
else here. Usenet is all ones and zeros.

One becomes real, by demonstrating that fact
by meeting someone in the group, or otherwise
gaining credibility.