On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 06:37:54 -0700, Joe
wrote:

The prototype's creator, Jim Harrington, equipped the sailboat with a
300-watt Horizon fuel cell system with the hydrogen supplied by NRC in
Vancouver and the only by-products of the operating fuel cell being
heat and water.

300 watts is less than 1/2 hp. No wonder they didn't reach their goal
of 6.5 kts. They need at least 20x more power, and then there is the
hydrogen generation or storage problem to be solved.

"Wayne.B" wrote
and then there is the
hydrogen generation or storage problem to be solved.

Couple or three years ago, I read an article about a fuel cell powered Duffy
launch with an experimental system that produced hydrogen from seawater as
needed, through some kind of chemical process. I wonder what became of that?

Ernest Scribbler brought forth on stone tablets:
"Wayne.B" wrote

and then there is the
hydrogen generation or storage problem to be solved.


Couple or three years ago, I read an article about a fuel cell powered Duffy
launch with an experimental system that produced hydrogen from seawater as
needed, through some kind of chemical process. I wonder what became of that?



Ran out of fuel? Seriously, if a chemical has to be carried onboard and
is transformed thru some process (perhaps even using seawater) to
produce the hydrogen to be consumed in the fuel cell, then what is that
chemical, other than a fuel? Some examples of such a fuel come to mind:
sodium, potassium, calcium.

As with anything associated with the "hydrogen economy", spend some time
researching how these substances are produced.


bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle

"RW Salnick" wrote
Seriously, if a chemical has to be carried onboard and is transformed thru
some process (perhaps even using seawater) to produce the hydrogen to be
consumed in the fuel cell, then what is that chemical, other than a fuel?

A catalyst.

As with anything associated with the "hydrogen economy", spend some time
researching how these substances are produced.

Never said I thought it was a magical miracle cure. Just asked whatever
became of it.

Ernest Scribbler wrote:

"RW Salnick" wrote

Seriously, if a chemical has to be carried onboard and is transformed thru
some process (perhaps even using seawater) to produce the hydrogen to be
consumed in the fuel cell, then what is that chemical, other than a fuel?


A catalyst.


As with anything associated with the "hydrogen economy", spend some time
researching how these substances are produced.


Never said I thought it was a magical miracle cure. Just asked whatever
became of it.




Try this one.
Very interesting, but no data on the input power budget.


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:18:55 -0700, RW Salnick
wrote:

As with anything associated with the "hydrogen economy", spend some time
researching how these substances are produced.

I believe most hydrogen is made from natural gas or by electrolysis.
Be easier to make methanol, from natural gas, and use that for liquid
motor fuel. My car runs on methanol. Lot lighter than compressed
hydrogen or natural gas, once you include the weight of the tanks.

Casady

wrote:

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:02:47 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:


On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 06:37:54 -0700, Joe
wrote:


The prototype's creator, Jim Harrington, equipped the sailboat with a
300-watt Horizon fuel cell system with the hydrogen supplied by NRC in
Vancouver and the only by-products of the operating fuel cell being
heat and water.

300 watts is less than 1/2 hp. No wonder they didn't reach their goal
of 6.5 kts. They need at least 20x more power, and then there is the
hydrogen generation or storage problem to be solved.


I recall the Wright Brothers first flight wasn't quite ready for
commercial success, either. This is a start. Give it time to develop.


I disagree.

Fuel cell technology started with the Gemini space program amd developed
rapidly.

It is mature stuff - not emerging new tech.

300 watts?
My daughter's stereo uses more power than that.

Richard

cavelamb himself wrote in news:13f043vphq93t16
@corp.supernews.com:

300 watts?
My daughter's stereo uses more power than that.



Only when you're on the phone.....(sigh)


Larry
--

wrote:

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:50:44 -0500, cavelamb himself
wrote:


wrote:


On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:02:47 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:



On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 06:37:54 -0700, Joe
wrote:



The prototype's creator, Jim Harrington, equipped the sailboat with a
300-watt Horizon fuel cell system with the hydrogen supplied by NRC in
Vancouver and the only by-products of the operating fuel cell being
heat and water.

300 watts is less than 1/2 hp. No wonder they didn't reach their goal
of 6.5 kts. They need at least 20x more power, and then there is the
hydrogen generation or storage problem to be solved.


I recall the Wright Brothers first flight wasn't quite ready for
commercial success, either. This is a start. Give it time to develop.


I disagree.

Fuel cell technology started with the Gemini space program amd developed
rapidly.

It is mature stuff - not emerging new tech.



Not for recreational boats, it's not. In my state, they have a couple
of schools that are now powered by fuel cells. Just a couple. They
consider it "experimental".


300 watts?
My daughter's stereo uses more power than that.



If this was truly a developed and mature technology, Your daughter's
stereo might be powered by it, along with your whole house.



It is not appropriate technology for those kind of applications.

No more so than a nuclear powered house.

Maybe (MAYBE!) the Liquid Hydrogen storage would be safer than a
reactor.

Maybe Not...

cavelamb himself wrote in
:

No more so than a nuclear powered house.


Not so!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiois...tric_generator
Russians have been running remote navaids with RTGs for decades.
Amazing power source used in lots of space programs, as you can see.

The half life of this generator is 87 years, so you only have to buy ONE to
run as many boats as you'll own in your lifetime, passing the RTG on to
your kids to run their boats from.

"238Pu (the best of these three) needs less than 2.5 mm, and in many cases
no shielding is needed in a 238Pu RTG, as the casing itself is adequate.

238Pu has become the most widely used fuel for RTGs, in the form of
plutonium(IV) oxide (PuO2). 238Pu has a half-life of 87.7 years, reasonable
energy density and exceptionally low gamma and neutron radiation levels."

Voyager 1 has been running from its RTG, nearly faultlessly, since the
1960's! It's power output has dropped, markedly, requiring a lot of its
science to be shut down or cycled, now.

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/RT/2004/RP/RPT-shah.html
Your permanent 110 watt SRG is ready....sun not necessary, 24/7/365/87
power...

Larry
--
Of course, we'll use scare tactics that rival 9/11 to prevent you from ever
owning a car that never needs fueling....which would, of course, starve
many of the elite class out of their mansions.