Recently purchased these plans and am considering building this
sailing pram.

Anyone out there with any experience with this one???
I'm a novice woodworker; is this lapstrake construction beyone me???
Instructions call for copper nails (rivets) for lap fastenings (1/2"
planks). How about using brass screws instead???

advTHANKSance, g.

"Gerry Wolfe" wrote in message
...
Recently purchased these plans and am considering building this
sailing pram.

Anyone out there with any experience with this one???
I'm a novice woodworker; is this lapstrake construction beyone me???
Instructions call for copper nails (rivets) for lap fastenings (1/2"
planks). How about using brass screws instead???

The purpose of the nails are to hold the strakes together when they swell
from moisture, thus creating a watertight seam. The resulting pressure is
rather high, so screws will be torn out, I'm afraid.

Meindert

"Meindert Sprang" ) writes:
"Gerry Wolfe" wrote in message
...
Recently purchased these plans and am considering building this
sailing pram.

Anyone out there with any experience with this one???
I'm a novice woodworker; is this lapstrake construction beyone me???
Instructions call for copper nails (rivets) for lap fastenings (1/2"
planks). How about using brass screws instead???

The purpose of the nails are to hold the strakes together when they swell
from moisture, thus creating a watertight seam. The resulting pressure is
rather high, so screws will be torn out, I'm afraid.

You'll probably need a helper for rivets or clenched nails because you
won't be able to reach both ends yourself. If that's not covered in the
instructions you might have to ask the designer if it can be built
single-handed.
--
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William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
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Gerry,
I've read the answers from Meindert & Bill.

BRASS is much to soft . . . not sure of the actually 'pressure' on each
screw. If you follow the 'pattern' of 'rivet & rove' placement . . . there
are a HELL of a LOT of them. If you do go that route, I would recommend
Marine Bronze. Also, make a 'test seam' and soak it well, about a week, to
see what will happen.

What you might want to investigate is a 'modern' interpretation of the
construction method . . . GLUED LAPSTRAKE. It would do away with using
rivets OR screws {of course you could always put in some 1/4in ones AFTER,
to visually 'simulate' the 'old way'}. This would also eliminate the annual
'swelling tight' and 'working' of the rivets . . . and the periodic
'tightening' that would be required.

This method is acceptable by many builders of 'traditional design' boats.
And even Mystic Seaport regards it as a method for building boats that will
be used in 'livery' or from the plans they sell. If you can 'check with the
designer' - absolutely do so.

Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop

"Gerry Wolfe" wrote in message
...
Recently purchased these plans and am considering building this
sailing pram.

Anyone out there with any experience with this one???
I'm a novice woodworker; is this lapstrake construction beyone me???
Instructions call for copper nails (rivets) for lap fastenings (1/2"
planks). How about using brass screws instead???

advTHANKSance, g.

"Ron Magen" wrote in message
...
What you might want to investigate is a 'modern' interpretation of the
construction method . . . GLUED LAPSTRAKE. It would do away with using
rivets OR screws {of course you could always put in some 1/4in ones AFTER,
to visually 'simulate' the 'old way'}. This would also eliminate the
annual
'swelling tight' and 'working' of the rivets . . . and the periodic
'tightening' that would be required.

Beware that glued lapstrake will only work with plywood, because that is
dimensionally stable, unlike 'normal' timber. Take a look at my building
site www.customware.nl/boats for a glued lapstrake 10ft sailing dinghy.

Meindert

No brass anywhere near salt water. It will self-electrolize the copper
and zinc and your boat will come apart.

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:56:21 -0500, Gerry Wolfe
wrote:

Recently purchased these plans and am considering building this
sailing pram.

Anyone out there with any experience with this one???
I'm a novice woodworker; is this lapstrake construction beyone me???
Instructions call for copper nails (rivets) for lap fastenings (1/2"
planks). How about using brass screws instead???

advTHANKSance, g.


Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Curse thee, thou quadrant. No longer will I guide my earthly way by thee." Capt. Ahab

"Meindert Sprang" ) writes:

Beware that glued lapstrake will only work with plywood, because that is
dimensionally stable, unlike 'normal' timber. Take a look at my building
site www.customware.nl/boats for a glued lapstrake 10ft sailing dinghy.

good point. TF Jones describes a "wee lassie" style lapstrake canoe he
built with polyurethane adhesive along the laps. The stakes were thin
cedar and they started to split after 10 years. If the laps were allowed
to flex that may not have happened. The caoe wasn't used a lot. It was
kept under cover in a shed or something. He put some adhesive on the
splits.


--
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William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

Hi

"William R. Watt" skrev i en meddelelse
...

You'll probably need a helper for rivets or clenched nails because you
won't be able to reach both ends yourself. If that's not covered in the
instructions you might have to ask the designer if it can be built
single-handed.
--

I don't need another hand, you can rivit even the soft steel clinker rivits
that was used in lapstrake fishing vessels, ----- stronger bigger and flush
head, but need to be made from new not scrap steel ( Norwegian boatnails).
As you rivit the next plank you don't need to reach long to knock on one
side, backing up with a special hammer or special steel on the other side
( some tools was done to tree porpus, holding the washer during first step,
backing iron riviting, and hitting your toe.
Lapstrake was originaly sewn with natural fibers, consider other type of
string or the original Copper that hardens while you in scientifical way,
make the head in the rivit bigger, and that way, force the panels together.
Use a polyurethane rubber , more flexible as glue, crack filling and make a
profesionals fit by filling, last for decades.
P.C.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-Boat/

I you are truly a novice woodworker, I think that a traditional rivetted
lapstrake boat is not a good first boat, nor would a 'glued lapstrake'
variant. These are too fussy for a first-timer.

I'd suggest three possibilities, in order of difficulty (for the same level
of trim & finish):
- Any of the "stitch & glue" plywood prams, like this. There are many.
Others will have suggestions.
- A cedar strip composite pram, like this. See John Gardner's book for
lines. There are others.
- The Nutshell pram which is a very simple (5 planks) glued lapstrake
construction. Plans
available from WoodenBoat.

Good luck,
Jim


Gerry Wolfe wrote:

Recently purchased these plans and am considering building this
sailing pram.

Anyone out there with any experience with this one???
I'm a novice woodworker; is this lapstrake construction beyone me???
Instructions call for copper nails (rivets) for lap fastenings (1/2"
planks). How about using brass screws instead???

advTHANKSance, g.

"Jim Conlin" wrote in message news:4012119D.1D902820
@comcast.net...
I you are truly a novice woodworker, I think that a traditional rivetted
lapstrake
boat is not a good first boat, nor would a 'glued lapstrake' variant.
These are too fussy for a first-timer.

Mmm, not sure about that. My glued lapstrake dinghy was my first boat I ever
built. And my woodworking skills were nothing more that what I've learned
form making small things over the years, where a diningroom table was the
most 'complex' project :-) But I can tell you: you learn very fast when
building a boat!

Meindert