Capt. Rob wrote:
Sorry, 322 sq feet. Still, its only 43% of the 742 feet on the
Nonsuch.
Sail Area = Horsepower; there's pretty simple physics here.


Wrong, Jeff. I work closely with two lofts now and sail area does not
+ HP in all cases. For it to be effective you need proper shape, COE
coupled with LWL and the least wetted surface on a hydrodynamically
effective hull.

Nauti-babble! You're just showing how little you know!



With 230%
more power, the Nonsuch easily overcomes its weight disadvantage
(17,000
vs 11,460 lbs).

No, Jeff. The Nonsuch can have all of the sail area in the world and
it will never overcome it's heft in all conditions. There are MANY
other factors than make a lot of boats faster than a Nonsuch even when
they have less canvas and shorter LWL.

More Nauti-babble! You're just showing how little you know!


In fact, the Benny can only do a bit over SR of 1.1, or about 6
knots.

Yeah, I remember years ago when I was a newbie and I played with those
types of numbers.

So you didn't understand the numbers and you gave up learning. This is
a common pattern for you, isn't it?

Some real sailors set me straight. We will always
pass the Nonsuch and always have.

A Nonsuch 30, perhaps, but the NS 36 SD is almost as fast as your boat;
in some situations its faster, like if you leave your jib at home.

A J27 or J29 will usually pass us,
though we can throw up impressive sail area coupled with greater LWL.
Sigh. You just don't get sailing at all, do you?

Keep at it another 10 or 20 years, and you'll catch up to where I was
about 40 years ago.



Of course not. However, I can probably find posts where you
claimed it was.



Yup, I used to play the numbers game as you have above. Then there's
the real world. If you don't think a 35s5 can stay with a Nonsuch,
both flying mains, then you're simply wrong. There's just no doubt
about it at all.

You've totally lost it here, booby! Are you seriously claiming that the
35s5 without a jib can beat a boat that rates at 141 or even 160??? And
you think you have any credibility left? BWHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





But by how much?

Does that matter? "Faster" for sailboats is always about very small
advantages.

But this just proves my point. If you're claiming that a boat that's a
couple of percent faster is all the difference in the world, then the
crude VPP numbers I gave are actually pretty definitive in showing that
there's no way that a Benny without a jib can overcome that handicap.



On a
Beam Reach in a blow, its possible to do 20% over hull speed.


Most 35s5 owners who've sailed their boats hard have reported speeds
between 10-12 knots. On a reach in Florida we touched 11 knots I
believe. My buddy who races topped 11 with the 35s5 flying the 150% in
far too much wind.

More of your silly claims. But I agree that there are moments- I've
even had my Nonsuch 30 close to 9 knots a few times. But these moments
usually last a few seconds are caused by surfing and momentary gusts.
They don't happen often (except in your fantasies) on a close reach in
18-20 knots steady.


A real advantage of a lightweight boat like the J/29 (same hull, 2000
lbs lighter than a J/30)

Actually, Jeff, the hulls have some differences beyond the weight.


Of course, but its essentially the same hull shape.


So will a Nonsuch. It isn't a crab crusher: the NS36 SD has a
PHRF of 141.



NE Rating is 165, Jeff. I've seen lower and higher. The current rating
for my boat with martec prop is 126. 165 is barely any better than my
Pearson 30, which was a fine sailing boat. I'm NOT bashing the Nonsuch
boats, Jeff. There were three out today and they are pretty boats.
They were right there with the Catalinas and Beneteau Oceanus boats,
but we passed them easily.

USSailing lists the NS 36 SD as 141. But are you actually claiming the
35s5 would rate faster without its jib?


Moreover, you've claimed many times that your Benny has a low
rating
because it attracts better skippers;



The usual song from 35s5 owners is that it's just not forgiving at all
and requires a very good crew. In my opinion that makes a poor
raceboat for a lot of people, unless they really want to get serious
about it. It's a bad pick for the casual racer to be sure.

So what is it? Does it have a low rating because its raced by pros, or a
high rating because its too hard for the average racer? You seem to
flip you argument back and forth.


Since the ratings are in fact pretty close, it must be that the
Nonsuch
is actually faster than your Benny.

Hey, Jeff...if you want to believe that a Nonsuch 36 is faster than a
35s5, J30, Santana 30/30 or even Sloco's Express 30, screanm it to the
heavens.

I never claimed the Nonsuch was faster than any of these boats.
You made that claim that without your jib you can outsail a NS 36.

Its real simple: in F5 the Nonsuch (and most other boats) will be at or
near hull speed when carrying full sail. Take away the jib and the
benny doesn't have a prayer.




Which is a full knot under the hull speed of a NS36.

That was an average, Jeff. When winds died so did the Nonsuch. We kept
flying. In heavy winds the boats were a closer match. We sailed along
with two Nonsuch 36's. They are always out as of late and I'll take
pics of them next weekend. We always pass them.

Without your jib? That's the whole topic of this discussion, even
though you keep avoiding it.