"Captain Crunch" wrote in message
...
Well, he can now post about his favorite boat. Wonder if he got the log
(and cedar bucket) with the purchase?


Ya, what's the name of that little boat again...something like "Cut the
Cheese," isn't it?

On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:58:58 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote this crap:


"Captain Crunch" wrote in message
...
Well, he can now post about his favorite boat. Wonder if he got the log
(and cedar bucket) with the purchase?


Ya, what's the name of that little boat again...something like "Cut the
Cheese," isn't it?


I think it was, "pass the salt."




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:


What do you think?


If this is real and not some imagined adventure, I think you can sell
tickets. I doubt you can recoup the cost of the boat, though.

"Paul Cassel" wrote in message
. ..
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:


What do you think?


If this is real and not some imagined adventure, I think you can sell
tickets. I doubt you can recoup the cost of the boat, though.


I think people will pay. Did you know it costs about 100,000 dollars to
climb Everest? They have a waiting list for guided climbs. Few people
are foolish enough to try climbing Everest on their own. There are,
indeed, lots of rich bored people around these days. Some are already
paying millions of dollars a pop for a ride into space and back for a
couple days.

I figure to sail a hurricane and enjoy the ultimate survival adventure
rich people would be willing to pay maybe 20 thousand dollars - for a
one week cruise. Let's say six passengers - that makes 120 grand a
hurricane, if there are eight reachable hurricanes a season that would
be almost a million dollars the first year alone. Of course there will
be expenses but two years should be the break-even point for the build
barring unforeseen circumstances.

Wilbur Hubbard

On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 19:14:30 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Paul Cassel" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:


What do you think?


If this is real and not some imagined adventure, I think you can sell
tickets. I doubt you can recoup the cost of the boat, though.


I think people will pay. Did you know it costs about 100,000 dollars to
climb Everest? They have a waiting list for guided climbs. Few people
are foolish enough to try climbing Everest on their own. There are,
indeed, lots of rich bored people around these days. Some are already
paying millions of dollars a pop for a ride into space and back for a
couple days.

I figure to sail a hurricane and enjoy the ultimate survival adventure
rich people would be willing to pay maybe 20 thousand dollars - for a
one week cruise. Let's say six passengers - that makes 120 grand a
hurricane, if there are eight reachable hurricanes a season that would
be almost a million dollars the first year alone. Of course there will
be expenses but two years should be the break-even point for the build
barring unforeseen circumstances.

Wilbur Hubbard

A word to the wise ain't necessary, it's the stupid ones who need
the advice. - Bill Cosby:

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

On Aug 16, 9:24 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
Yes, cruising catamarans have something extra. As a simple Google and
YouTube search using capsize and catamaran will reveal, the something
extra is the remarkable ease with which catamarans turn turtle.

With this in mind, any potential catamaran buyer must ask himself if the
paltry advantages of a catamaran - things such as small heel angles,
slightly faster speeds downwind, more elbow room below (but not load
carrying capacity), shallow draft and largish cockpit - outweigh the
fact that sooner or later the whole shebang is going to end up
upside-down and swamped. Don't even think about what happens if you get
trapped under the thing and drown. Just think about upside-down. In
other words, everything is ruined.

Why put up with a boat that has a designed-in flaw of being more stable
upside-down than rightside-up? Is the trade-off between a platform that
doesn't heel quite as much and an upside-down platform worth it? Only
you can answer that question. It depends upon how much you love your
life and the lives of your loved ones.

I wonder when the Coast Guard is going to get some balls and declare any
and all cruising catamaran ocean voyages "manifestly unsafe voyages"
and put a stop to them?

Wilbur Hubbard

Sir I think you are confusing racing cats and lightweight hobby cats
with cruising cats, Cruising cats again and again have proven to be
more stable than a monohull and I am a fan of the monohull. The
appears to be more space in a cruising cat but this is an illusion as
it is just more cramped spaces and more of them, but if you need to
know the truth on cats go to http://www.tennantdesign.co.nz/ Malcolm
is one of the world's leading marine architects on catamarans. then
you can speak with authority, check out the technical details and the
record of CRUISING CATS .
David Law

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 16, 9:24 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
Yes, cruising catamarans have something extra. As a simple Google and
YouTube search using capsize and catamaran will reveal, the something
extra is the remarkable ease with which catamarans turn turtle.

With this in mind, any potential catamaran buyer must ask himself if
the
paltry advantages of a catamaran - things such as small heel angles,
slightly faster speeds downwind, more elbow room below (but not load
carrying capacity), shallow draft and largish cockpit - outweigh the
fact that sooner or later the whole shebang is going to end up
upside-down and swamped. Don't even think about what happens if you
get
trapped under the thing and drown. Just think about upside-down. In
other words, everything is ruined.

Why put up with a boat that has a designed-in flaw of being more
stable
upside-down than rightside-up? Is the trade-off between a platform
that
doesn't heel quite as much and an upside-down platform worth it? Only
you can answer that question. It depends upon how much you love your
life and the lives of your loved ones.

I wonder when the Coast Guard is going to get some balls and declare
any
and all cruising catamaran ocean voyages "manifestly unsafe voyages"
and put a stop to them?

Wilbur Hubbard

Sir I think you are confusing racing cats and lightweight hobby cats
with cruising cats, Cruising cats again and again have proven to be
more stable than a monohull and I am a fan of the monohull. The
appears to be more space in a cruising cat but this is an illusion as
it is just more cramped spaces and more of them, but if you need to
know the truth on cats go to http://www.tennantdesign.co.nz/ Malcolm
is one of the world's leading marine architects on catamarans. then
you can speak with authority, check out the technical details and the
record of CRUISING CATS .
David Law


Thanks but the bottom line is the stability curve. That says it all as
far as I'm concerned. Cruising cats have stability curves similar to
racing cats at the top of the curve where it says, "oh oh, turn turtle
because there's no going back." Since they are heavier, the bottom of
the curve looks a little better but that's spurious information because
it's at the top where the problem arises. Anybody who claims cruising
cats have an impeccable record are not familiar with the facts. People
have died when their cruising cats have turned turtle. People will
continue to die. The various manufacturers have an aggressive plan to
cover up any incidents of capsize. They'd rather people weren't aware of
the fact that they are selling a dangerous product. A product of dubious
worth when it comes to ocean voyaging where sometimes one just cannot
avoid a survival storm.


Wilbur Hubbard

* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 8/19/2007 9:25 PM:

Thanks but the bottom line is the stability curve. That says it all as
far as I'm concerned.

In other words, you've made up your mind to ignore the reality of the
situation.

Cruising cats have stability curves similar to
racing cats at the top of the curve where it says, "oh oh, turn turtle
because there's no going back." Since they are heavier, the bottom of
the curve looks a little better but that's spurious information because
it's at the top where the problem arises.

There is no doubt that there is a similarity. The issue, however, is
that magnitude of the wind/wave required to capsize, the frequency of
this happening, and the record of survival when it does occur.

Anybody who claims cruising
cats have an impeccable record are not familiar with the facts.

I've never claimed the record is "impeccable," only that its hard to
find cases where a modern cruising cat has capsized while cruising, as
opposed to racing or delivery. And please show us your "facts," not
just fabricated nonsense.

People
have died when their cruising cats have turned turtle. People will
continue to die.

Very, very few. You still haven't provided a single case, although I
know of a few. And since its trivial to find cases where monohulls
have disappeared without a trace, its not clear what your point is.

The various manufacturers have an aggressive plan to
cover up any incidents of capsize.

Ah! So its a conspiracy! Next you'll claim the Martians are
abducting catamaran sailers!

They'd rather people weren't aware of
the fact that they are selling a dangerous product.

And they must have fooled the insurance companies too, because the
rates for a cat aren't any higher than for a monohull.

A product of dubious
worth when it comes to ocean voyaging where sometimes one just cannot
avoid a survival storm.

Unlike the large number of monohulls that would politely disappear
during any storm that would capsize a cruising cat. And since you
never leave sight of land, why the great interest in ocean voyaging?

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:56:50 -0400, Jeff wrote:

any storm that would capsize a cruising cat.

Perhaps you are underestimating to ability of a fool to do the wrong
thing at the wrong time. All the big ships will capsize, and not come
back. The self righting vessels are actually rare. During a wartime
crossing the Queen Mary came within a degree or so of going over. Wave
took out the wheelhouse windows, ninety feet above sea level. Nothing
except a submarine is immune to big waves. Of course, those things
routinely recover from sinking. I heard that ten thousand shipping
containers are lost, during storms, every year. Hit one of those with
many small craft, and you may not be concerned with capsizing.

Casady

On Aug 20, 9:25 am, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...



On Aug 16, 9:24 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
Yes, cruising catamarans have something extra. As a simple Google and
YouTube search using capsize and catamaran will reveal, the something
extra is the remarkable ease with which catamarans turn turtle.

With this in mind, any potential catamaran buyer must ask himself if
the
paltry advantages of a catamaran - things such as small heel angles,
slightly faster speeds downwind, more elbow room below (but not load
carrying capacity), shallow draft and largish cockpit - outweigh the
fact that sooner or later the whole shebang is going to end up
upside-down and swamped. Don't even think about what happens if you
get
trapped under the thing and drown. Just think about upside-down. In
other words, everything is ruined.

Why put up with a boat that has a designed-in flaw of being more
stable
upside-down than rightside-up? Is the trade-off between a platform
that
doesn't heel quite as much and an upside-down platform worth it? Only
you can answer that question. It depends upon how much you love your
life and the lives of your loved ones.

I wonder when the Coast Guard is going to get some balls and declare
any
and all cruising catamaran ocean voyages "manifestly unsafe voyages"
and put a stop to them?

Wilbur Hubbard

Sir I think you are confusing racing cats and lightweight hobby cats
with cruising cats, Cruising cats again and again have proven to be
more stable than a monohull and I am a fan of the monohull. The
appears to be more space in a cruising cat but this is an illusion as
it is just more cramped spaces and more of them, but if you need to
know the truth on cats go to http://www.tennantdesign.co.nz/ Malcolm
is one of the world's leading marine architects on catamarans. then
you can speak with authority, check out the technical details and the
record of CRUISING CATS .
David Law

Thanks but the bottom line is the stability curve. That says it all as
far as I'm concerned. Cruising cats have stability curves similar to
racing cats at the top of the curve where it says, "oh oh, turn turtle
because there's no going back." Since they are heavier, the bottom of
the curve looks a little better but that's spurious information because
it's at the top where the problem arises. Anybody who claims cruising
cats have an impeccable record are not familiar with the facts. People
have died when their cruising cats have turned turtle. People will
continue to die. The various manufacturers have an aggressive plan to
cover up any incidents of capsize. They'd rather people weren't aware of
the fact that they are selling a dangerous product. A product of dubious
worth when it comes to ocean voyaging where sometimes one just cannot
avoid a survival storm.

Wilbur Hubbard

WIlbur this is easily settled put your money where your mouth is, name
3 people who have died and name the manufacturer of the cat, and show
how it caused their deaths. As you want them banned just go for it.
you seem to know the facts please enlighten us, but beware some of the
manufacturers have deep pockets and big lawyers.
Why do some manufacturers of cats claim unsinkability ? which Pleasure
cats have turned turtle due to the design or due to the captain taking
them to hard, is it design or education? How come most of the southern
hemisphere Australia and New Zealand there is a preference for cats,
an their not sailed or motored in sheltered waters. Why did not all
the polynesians die out it was the only boat they knew? to many
questions and as for the conspiracy well I wasn't on the grassy
knoll . you mean all these competing manufacturers said "hey guys lets
not tell anyone this is unsafe" and the thousands of employees and all
the staff never mentioned it to anyone untill you discovered it
WOH !!! ELEMENTARY DEAR WATSON ! look at these guys
http://www.trawlercatmarine.com/whatisnew.html and go tell them they
are dangerous as all their range goes round the world, tell them it
won't.
Regards
David