I guess this is another area where you're ignorant. The editorial
position of a magazine can be different from views expressed in
various articles and reviews.



It can be, or can be the same. The defiition is actually somewhat
vague as is the specific POV of any publication. I suggest you look up
the term and learn a bit before making such an obvious mistake.





Huh??? You're the one who implied you sail to use various boats,
not
to enjoy them.


A lie from Jeff, but let's give him a break. Jeff, please show the
POST where I claimed NOT to enjoy sailing for the sake of sailing.



I just agreed with you the when you're ready to start
enjoying, you might try a cat. Perhaps you should reread what you
wrote.


Already sailed a PDQ 36 and a Gemini. Suzanne also sailed aboard a 60
foot cat years ago in Tobago. Boring, boring and boring.




??? I'll spend about 10 weeks onboard this summer. I've already
spent more time on the water this summer than you will, and we're
just
getting started.


I've been sailing Heart of Gold and other boats since late March,
Jeff. And we'll sailing straight through November. I'm sailing today.
Not only do we spend more time actually sailing that you, but we also
enjoy a fairly large variety of boats.



Why would I know where some random boat is from?



Why would you assume that all boats are from City Island?



No, I never said that. I said that your comment was
meaningless.


Really? Why don't you post the comment and let's have a look!



You
clearly didn't understand what it means or how to use the term
intelligently. Its pretty clear you still don't.


How is it clear? We never spoke about any aspect of foil dynamics,
Jeff. But again, please post ANY part of our technical discussion that
you seem to remember!



And why is that? Everyone knows you're just bluffing and have no
idea
what you're talking about!



Again, post some proof. Where is our discussion about foil
dynamics????? Hmmmm?


OK, so enlighten us! Tell us what you meant by "foil dynamics"
and
how it relates to my comment. Its clear that you know less about
boats than a sunken log


Jeff, you're sooooo silly. Anyone here can pretend to be an expert.
You KNOW that. Whatever I do know...or you...can be easily amplified
by a few minutes of googling. Don't you read Crantz posts? That's just
what you'll claim if I show any knowledge at all, so why bother?
Suffice to say I've owned 4 boats, sailed perhaps a 100 others. I
probably picked up a thing or two in that time.



OK, so you prefer a slow boat. That sounds pretty dull to me.


Right, so what you're saying is that Monohulls that are slower than
cats are dull. I'm glad you said it. You believe that speed,
regardless of ow it's delivered is the end all to fun aboard a boat.
Sadly for you, most of the sailing world enjoying everything from
J22's to 35s5's to Melges and Swans don't agree one bit. That's why
every Cat owner we see is elderly. Jeff.


While its true that mono sales are still bigger than multis, the
multi
market is growing a *lot* faster.


And if you knew ANYTHING at all about the brokerage and builders
market, you'd also know that they sell to a generally older population
that is growing. The worlds biggest builders don't built cats or build
very few. Cats will never outsell monoulls and I wouldn't buy a cat
unless I was too handle a boat like mine.


When I first started cruising the
cat in the Northeast, we were often the first cat people had ever
seen. Now its rare to find even in a small harbor without one or
more.


Bwaahaahahaha! Yeah....they're taking over!!! We have two at our club.
Both are owned by couples in their 60's. I know them and they share my
opinion on Cats, but big powerful rigs are too much for them now.


You're the one who keep bragging about "3 times a week" and how
you're
back home every night.


Yup...actually 4 times last week. Honestly, time spent under sail was
around 20-25 hours. That's a typical week, but some are more and
others less. So I'll let you do the math, Jeff. If I sail 20 hours a
week from end of March to mid november how many hours is that? Quite a
few, Jeff. And I DON'T count time hanging out on a hook or in the
slip. I only count the time when the sails are up and working. But
I'll even be more conservative and say 20 weeks of 20 hours of sailing
and we really do more than that, especially since we've started also
sailing on local lakes. Your 10 weeks aboard one boat does not measure
up.



I'll already done more sailing than you'll ever do.


You know...that could be true or it may not be. You probably won't
live to know for sure. But if it makes you pass away more quietly,
then go right ahead and believe it!



And frankly,
given your history, I probably have more good years ahead of me than
you do!


Now that's just silly. My cholesterol is 166 this year. I weigh 213
lbs today at 6'3 and I ran 3 miles on a trail today, before you even
woke up!

....



Then the limits you're pushing are the lower limits!


Oh...so now I'm pushing limits, but it's the lower ones??? LOL!



No, its lying.



I post exactly what I do and also provide pics and video. I see no
indication that the majority of this group sails at all. So please
provide any indication that I "lie."



It too bad you don't know how to sail one. You just keep
admitting
you ignorance on this topic.


Where is your boat now, Jeff? Too far away for a daysail for me?
Invite me aboard, Jeff. I'll sail your boat right off without a single
instruction and do it fairly well. You can judge for yourself how much
or little I know.




And then you woke up and the bed was wet!!!



Please keep this dialogue clean and unattractive to Ganzy.




But you know I'm right, and so does everyone else!


Everyone on ASA....who don't own cats. Of course if I say that rocks
are hard, ASA says I'm wrong, so it means little.



That's real funny! You have never sailed a boat "beyond her
conventional design parameters" and everyone here knows it! You
haven't even been close!


I'm afraid I have been in such conditions twice, but pushing a rig too
far is something that is done all the time. In fact we did it on our
very 1st sail aboard the 35s5 in Florida.




Now that's a start. And by "extended" we mean more than about 2
hours.



Actually...it's your finish, Jeff. I enjoy day sailing and weekend
trips. That little fact is the beginning and end of any point you
"thought" you had. In spite of this I still spend more time under sail
than you or anyone else here and that's a fact.



BWAHAHAHAAHA! And you claimed you were going to do a
trans-Atlantic!!!


Yup, perhaps in about 7 or 8 years. Suzanne and I have discussed it at
length. So what?


You're the first person I've known who claimed to
be a sailor, but thought 4 days on a luxury boat was enough!


I guess you don't know many sailors or perhaps your definition is all
about exclusion of folks who prefer day sails, lake sailing, racing
and such. I don't make such rules. I figure if a sailor prefers to
sail small lakes that's great. If another only likes long voyages,
then that's also great. The sailor on the lake may be more skilled. I
make no judgements as you do and I don't create "special clubs" or
redifine words to suit my ego. I'm a sailor, Jeff. So are you after a
fashion, but I do sail more than you and all of the posts in the world
can't change the math.


Actually, the Multi/Mono comparison in this months Cruising World
(which you seem to take as gospel) pointed out that the cabins on the
big Beneteau were stuffy, but the cat was airy.



I guess you will always avoid the question at hand. I asked which
MONOHULL is better. Your larger vessel has more room for ports/hatches
and such.


And those little side hatches don't really ventilate the boat,
and
counting the little hatch inside the cockpit is truly lame!

No experience at all from Jeff...as usual. When we were on the hook a
few weeks ago, Suzanne had to close that port because it sucks in air
like crazy when the second aft cabin port is open. In fact we
generally find that opening the single center hatch with one open port
keeps things comfortable. Sorry, Jeff.



Nope. No need. Its pretty clear that you're an insecure little
child.
There is very little in your life for anyone to be envious of.



You're not supposed to be envious, Jeff. That's your problem. You're
supposed to be happy that I have been so fortunate. You need to grow
up a little, even at your advanced age.



You posted here that was the reason you couldn't go out for more
than
a few days.


Nope.



Enjoy it while you can.


Have a look, Jeff...on our own land.....
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...prit/swim2.jpg



During the 19 days we were gone I posted 11 short posts, in 5
sessions, using my Blackberry as a modem.



Uh huh. Got a point?



I really don't care much what Ed Gordon thinks.


Snap out of it. That's NOT Ed Gordon.


Your pics could be anywhere, anytime.



Bwahahahaahaha! Yeah....and careful make up and CGI effects are how I
properly age Thomas in the pics and videos! You're hilarious....but
also sad!



I really don't care that you're not interested in cruising; you
seem
obsessed with the fact that other people have fun even though they
don't have your "life."


Thank god they don't have my life. My time last night with Suzanne was
the stuff of Arabian fantasy....all for me!



Me? You respond to every one of mine!!!



Jeff, knock it off. I've been doing this for years. I start each
thread with a goal of catching as many as I can and this is MY thread.
You didn't start it, nor do you start many at all. It's my posts that
keep this arena functional an my nets full.



t sailors??? Certainly not! Most sailors understand that it
slows
them down!


That's like saying "most drivers" know that their tires touching the
road slows them down, Jeff. You are truly rediculous...and really
silly!



Like a little child you think its more
fun when its tippy!


Yup! I don't know anyone....NO ONE...who doesn't love the feeling of a
monohull taking a set around 12 degrees and taking off. Call us all
children!


Most sailors think Fun is getting the most of of the boat, not
sailing
poorly.


So now heeling is sailing poorly. BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!! Anyone want to
see some Cup videos of poor sailing?


Dead days are fun also! We just fire up the engines and power off
at
9 knots!


No thanks. We're out there to get away from engines as much as
possible.


Actually, I enjoy racing in very light air days. It takes a lot
of
skill and patience, but it can be extremely rewarding.



Snore. Good for you!



In other words, you sucked at it and never want to do it again.


Nope. I was not skipper and sometimes we won. But it was crowded on
the water and limiting. Suzanne has been doing it on Wednesdays. She
enjoys the social aspect, but not the racing itself. "Liking" racing
is not a requirement for a sailor, Jeff...nor is sailing on blue water
or owning a cat. Too late for you to realize this and very sad that
folks like me, who just love to sail, anger you so. I do feel sorry
for you.


Hey, you're the one who just spent the whole post explaining all
the
different ways you don't like to sail!


Yup, just like you prefer cats, no AC, long trips and so on. We all
have our preferences.


Its no fun if the boat was actually
designed to go fast.

That all depends on how it achieves that goal.


You can't cruise because you get bored after a
few days.


I don't love time on the hook. That's not sailing. When I owned a
motorcycle, I always hated getting to where I was going. The ride was
the thing. You own a dull ride and that's the long and short of it.


You have lots of "plans" that never seem
to happen.


Most do, a few haven't yet. ALL will.


Its pretty clear that your only reason to go out at all is to take
a
picture and then run back in and post it!


Yup! I figure actual cost to me is about 44.50 per pic counting cost
of the boat, camera and web account! It's worth it when I snare fish
like this!



The truth is I have no problem with your daysailing; as
I've said I've done it many times.


Why thank you!


You're the one who keeps claiming
that no one else can have any fun because they don't do things your
way.


No, I claim that most of the people in ASA hardly/don't sail at all.
This is a sailing group.



In fact, every month or so you have to post a list of why
everyone else can't be having any fun!

No, I only post that they're not sailing. And they're not.


You are the most insecure
person I've ever known.


I'm 74 and used to own my own tug boat company called Raven Inc. In
1966 I was aboard the Elf when she caught fire off the Jersey Coast
and I was the sole survivor. I'm 33 and I sponsor a Swan 60 sailing
project, but can't sail her myself due to a spinal injury. I'm 44 and
I've owned 4 boats. I currently work for the 2nd largest sailboat
builder in the world as a design consultant on vessels over 10
meters.
Jeff, you have NO IDEA who I am at all. If you met me you'd never
guess that I and Bobsprit are one in the same. I am the Man in Black
here and I fight sailing idiocy and evil as I please.


You proved you
don't even know the meaning of "going upwind." You even claimed that
most sailors don't care about sailing upwind, they only care how well
a boat pinches.


More lies. Never posted any such thing and I challenge Jeff to post a
link to any such comment.


Someday you
should try a beam reach!


I don't drink, but clearly you do!


Enjoy the day. I'm off to do a few hours on a Cat boat (Menger 22).
2nd time aboard and I'm helping the owner with a new sail I got for
him.







RB
35s5
NY