On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 08:29:15 -0500, Nathan Branden
wrote:

snippity-snip

No liberals in the USMC.

NB

You were never in the USMC Nathan.
There is the same percentage of liberals in the Corps as in the
society that supplies it with Marines.
Being a Marine doesn't have anything to do with politics Nathan.
Mark E. Williams

Cal Vanize wrote:
Bob Crantz wrote:

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message




snip


RB
35s5
NY


snip

Oh the hypocrisy!!!!!



Hold on....

This controversy is all about Michael Moore making more money stirring
up controversy. He's making a career out of this and laughing at all
American society all the way to the bank.

Don't lead yourself to think there's any other motivation.

I don't think that's it...I think he is one of those altruistic people
who thinks they are doing the right thing...some of the things he says
are valid...the approach he takes, though, isn't and his conclusions and
his solutions are off base...I do not think he is an evil man..I just
think he is vastly de;luded...too much contact with Al Gore and his
cronies...

katy wrote:
Cal Vanize wrote:
Bob Crantz wrote:

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message




snip


RB
35s5
NY


snip

Oh the hypocrisy!!!!!



Hold on....

This controversy is all about Michael Moore making more money stirring
up controversy. He's making a career out of this and laughing at all
American society all the way to the bank.

Don't lead yourself to think there's any other motivation.

I don't think that's it...I think he is one of those altruistic people
who thinks they are doing the right thing...some of the things he says
are valid...the approach he takes, though, isn't and his conclusions and
his solutions are off base...I do not think he is an evil man..I just
think he is vastly de;luded...too much contact with Al Gore and his
cronies...


He's making a killing selling "documentaries" to the uninformed. He
exaggerates more than Ted Kennedy with the neck brace.

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:19:08 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 09:48:00 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 11:02:01 -0000, thunder
wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:36:25 -0700, Bart wrote:


What's the problem with government health systems?

What's more important, continued support for a private health care
system,
or American jobs? It seems
to be overlooked that our health care system costs upwards of 15% GDP,
while those countries with
universal health care spend @10% GDP. That extra 5% is the reason is
the
reason our automotive
sector is fleeing north, expanding operations in Canada, while
curtailing
them here. In a global economy,
5% extra cost puts us at a considerable economic disadvantage. Ignore
that at your peril.

All manufacturing is fleeing, not just automotive, and health care
cost is a major driver. I know, I've been there. But universal
health care is not the answer.

Just recently, at a medical school close to my home, the state
legislature mandated to the board of higher education that the number
of seats be increased. There is a very large supply of eligible
candidates, many don't get in. It is the AMA's very sucessful, long
standing attempt to control the supply side, keeping fee schedules
very high.

That's just job losses. Let's not consider the lower life expectancy
and
higher infant mortality our health
system provides.

Our health care system doesn't have anything to do with this. It is a
matter of lifestyle choices. Want a lower infant mortality rate? how
about a lower rate of teen mothers on drugs and alcohol. Want a
longer life expectancy? How about everyone get off your buns and get
some exercise and drop the high fat, high sugar diet.

Frank
Who runs 36 miles a week and at 60 has no aging diseases. No
diabetes, no high blood pressure, no cardiovascular issues, no joint,
ligament, or cartilage issues.


Universal health care is available in all modern cultures except ours. I'm
sure we're glad you're healthy and can afford health care, but no one has
a
contract with God.


And you miss the entire point. Adopting healthier lifestyles has
nothing to do with having a contract with God. It just diminishes the
need for the" healthcare" that we have come to believe is an
entitlement in this country, that is we can eat horribly, be obese,
smoke, lead completely sedentary lives, and if pregnant, take drugs,
alcohol and smoke, and we or our newborn will remain healthy, and if
that doesn't work, someone else has to pay to make it happen.

Anything the government has ever gotten involved in that requires cost
control and reasonable product or service has been a disaster.

Frank

And you've missed the point as well... all of your attempts to remain
healthy are great, but that has little to do with the money required to save
your life or give you a decent quality of life if you get sick and don't
have insurance.

It is the point. I go to the doctor once a year for him to tell me
I'm healthy. There is no burdon on the system. Of course I'm paying
an exorbitant amount for health insurance which I don't need in order
to pay for those that have not made those healthy lifestyle choices.
That's how it works, and the only thing that can make it worse is for
the government to step in.



The VA insurance is a great example of gov't run healthcare
that for the most part works. They can negotiate prices for drugs, they
serve a vast community, mostly quite well.

So have you used the VA system? I had two close relatives now
deceased, who used the excellent VA system. father in law was one of
them. I'm not even going to comment on your assessment of it as a
system that works "quite well"



You're very quick to say that healthcare is an entitlement, as though it
isn't needed, not really. It is needed and that's demonstrated by the
millions who are uninsured, pushing up the costs for those who are. It's
demonstrated by people's inability to get affordable insurance that sticks
with them, rather than changes with their employer. A child of four getting
cancer is not a life-style problem, but gods forbid if that child's parents
couldn't afford decent health insurance.

No, what I said is that we seem to believe we can live horrible
lifestyles and we have an entitlement to have some system that is
subsidized by others, either the government or the people in a group
who are making the healthy choices, to offset the effects of those
poor lifestyle choices. That's what sucks up the resources that would
be available for those exceptional cases where the illness is no fault
of the patient. And please site the case where a four year old is not
treated for cancer, whatever the financial status of the parents.

We're very, very quick to talk about "freedom," but we sure are slow to talk
about decency when it comes to our own

And with that statement, I wonder why I even bother to respond.

Frank

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:19:08 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 09:48:00 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
m...
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 11:02:01 -0000, thunder
wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:36:25 -0700, Bart wrote:


What's the problem with government health systems?

What's more important, continued support for a private health care
system,
or American jobs? It seems
to be overlooked that our health care system costs upwards of 15% GDP,
while those countries with
universal health care spend @10% GDP. That extra 5% is the reason is
the
reason our automotive
sector is fleeing north, expanding operations in Canada, while
curtailing
them here. In a global economy,
5% extra cost puts us at a considerable economic disadvantage. Ignore
that at your peril.

All manufacturing is fleeing, not just automotive, and health care
cost is a major driver. I know, I've been there. But universal
health care is not the answer.

Just recently, at a medical school close to my home, the state
legislature mandated to the board of higher education that the number
of seats be increased. There is a very large supply of eligible
candidates, many don't get in. It is the AMA's very sucessful, long
standing attempt to control the supply side, keeping fee schedules
very high.

That's just job losses. Let's not consider the lower life expectancy
and
higher infant mortality our health
system provides.

Our health care system doesn't have anything to do with this. It is a
matter of lifestyle choices. Want a lower infant mortality rate? how
about a lower rate of teen mothers on drugs and alcohol. Want a
longer life expectancy? How about everyone get off your buns and get
some exercise and drop the high fat, high sugar diet.

Frank
Who runs 36 miles a week and at 60 has no aging diseases. No
diabetes, no high blood pressure, no cardiovascular issues, no joint,
ligament, or cartilage issues.


Universal health care is available in all modern cultures except ours.
I'm
sure we're glad you're healthy and can afford health care, but no one
has
a
contract with God.


And you miss the entire point. Adopting healthier lifestyles has
nothing to do with having a contract with God. It just diminishes the
need for the" healthcare" that we have come to believe is an
entitlement in this country, that is we can eat horribly, be obese,
smoke, lead completely sedentary lives, and if pregnant, take drugs,
alcohol and smoke, and we or our newborn will remain healthy, and if
that doesn't work, someone else has to pay to make it happen.

Anything the government has ever gotten involved in that requires cost
control and reasonable product or service has been a disaster.

Frank

And you've missed the point as well... all of your attempts to remain
healthy are great, but that has little to do with the money required to
save
your life or give you a decent quality of life if you get sick and don't
have insurance.

It is the point. I go to the doctor once a year for him to tell me
I'm healthy. There is no burdon on the system. Of course I'm paying
an exorbitant amount for health insurance which I don't need in order
to pay for those that have not made those healthy lifestyle choices.
That's how it works, and the only thing that can make it worse is for
the government to step in.



The VA insurance is a great example of gov't run healthcare
that for the most part works. They can negotiate prices for drugs, they
serve a vast community, mostly quite well.

So have you used the VA system? I had two close relatives now
deceased, who used the excellent VA system. father in law was one of
them. I'm not even going to comment on your assessment of it as a
system that works "quite well"



You're very quick to say that healthcare is an entitlement, as though it
isn't needed, not really. It is needed and that's demonstrated by the
millions who are uninsured, pushing up the costs for those who are. It's
demonstrated by people's inability to get affordable insurance that sticks
with them, rather than changes with their employer. A child of four
getting
cancer is not a life-style problem, but gods forbid if that child's
parents
couldn't afford decent health insurance.

No, what I said is that we seem to believe we can live horrible
lifestyles and we have an entitlement to have some system that is
subsidized by others, either the government or the people in a group
who are making the healthy choices, to offset the effects of those
poor lifestyle choices. That's what sucks up the resources that would
be available for those exceptional cases where the illness is no fault
of the patient. And please site the case where a four year old is not
treated for cancer, whatever the financial status of the parents.

We're very, very quick to talk about "freedom," but we sure are slow to
talk
about decency when it comes to our own

And with that statement, I wonder why I even bother to respond.

Frank


Why are you paying for health insurance if you claim you don't and won't
need it? Seems foolish. You are free to drop your health insurance coverage
at any time.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Cal Vanize wrote:
Bob Crantz wrote:

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message




snip


RB
35s5
NY


snip

Oh the hypocrisy!!!!!



Hold on....

This controversy is all about Michael Moore making more money stirring up
controversy. He's making a career out of this and laughing at all
American society all the way to the bank.

Don't lead yourself to think there's any other motivation.

I don't think that's it...I think he is one of those altruistic people who
thinks they are doing the right thing...some of the things he says are
valid...the approach he takes, though, isn't and his conclusions and his
solutions are off base...I do not think he is an evil man..I just think he
is vastly de;luded...too much contact with Al Gore and his cronies...


If someone doesn't agree with you, then that person must be deluded. Seems
like a lot of effort lately doesn't it, especially given who you voted for
in the last two presidential elections.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Jun 30, 10:56 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:

, especially given who you voted for
in the last two presidential elections.

--
"j" ganz - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Spoken like someone who voted for the loser last two elections..huh?

Did you ever pay up on that bet you made here and lost...?

Loser!...you lost, your vote was wasted, cuz U lost! Bwahahaahhahah
loser.

Then when you win you lose, cuz the people you voted for lied to you,
and are getting fat at the troff instead of doing anything the first
100 months. Loser.

Do you still have that Kerry bumper sticker, right under your rainbow
bumper sticker, on your mazda miata?

Joe

Capt. JG wrote:
"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:19:08 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 09:48:00 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
om...

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 11:02:01 -0000, thunder
wrote:


On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:36:25 -0700, Bart wrote:



What's the problem with government health systems?

What's more important, continued support for a private health care
system,
or American jobs? It seems
to be overlooked that our health care system costs upwards of 15% GDP,
while those countries with
universal health care spend @10% GDP. That extra 5% is the reason is
the
reason our automotive
sector is fleeing north, expanding operations in Canada, while
curtailing
them here. In a global economy,
5% extra cost puts us at a considerable economic disadvantage. Ignore
that at your peril.


All manufacturing is fleeing, not just automotive, and health care
cost is a major driver. I know, I've been there. But universal
health care is not the answer.

Just recently, at a medical school close to my home, the state
legislature mandated to the board of higher education that the number
of seats be increased. There is a very large supply of eligible
candidates, many don't get in. It is the AMA's very sucessful, long
standing attempt to control the supply side, keeping fee schedules
very high.


That's just job losses. Let's not consider the lower life expectancy
and
higher infant mortality our health
system provides.

Our health care system doesn't have anything to do with this. It is a
matter of lifestyle choices. Want a lower infant mortality rate? how
about a lower rate of teen mothers on drugs and alcohol. Want a
longer life expectancy? How about everyone get off your buns and get
some exercise and drop the high fat, high sugar diet.

Frank
Who runs 36 miles a week and at 60 has no aging diseases. No
diabetes, no high blood pressure, no cardiovascular issues, no joint,
ligament, or cartilage issues.


Universal health care is available in all modern cultures except ours.
I'm
sure we're glad you're healthy and can afford health care, but no one
has
a
contract with God.


And you miss the entire point. Adopting healthier lifestyles has
nothing to do with having a contract with God. It just diminishes the
need for the" healthcare" that we have come to believe is an
entitlement in this country, that is we can eat horribly, be obese,
smoke, lead completely sedentary lives, and if pregnant, take drugs,
alcohol and smoke, and we or our newborn will remain healthy, and if
that doesn't work, someone else has to pay to make it happen.

Anything the government has ever gotten involved in that requires cost
control and reasonable product or service has been a disaster.

Frank

And you've missed the point as well... all of your attempts to remain
healthy are great, but that has little to do with the money required to
save
your life or give you a decent quality of life if you get sick and don't
have insurance.

It is the point. I go to the doctor once a year for him to tell me
I'm healthy. There is no burdon on the system. Of course I'm paying
an exorbitant amount for health insurance which I don't need in order
to pay for those that have not made those healthy lifestyle choices.
That's how it works, and the only thing that can make it worse is for
the government to step in.




The VA insurance is a great example of gov't run healthcare
that for the most part works. They can negotiate prices for drugs, they
serve a vast community, mostly quite well.

So have you used the VA system? I had two close relatives now
deceased, who used the excellent VA system. father in law was one of
them. I'm not even going to comment on your assessment of it as a
system that works "quite well"



You're very quick to say that healthcare is an entitlement, as though it
isn't needed, not really. It is needed and that's demonstrated by the
millions who are uninsured, pushing up the costs for those who are. It's
demonstrated by people's inability to get affordable insurance that sticks
with them, rather than changes with their employer. A child of four
getting
cancer is not a life-style problem, but gods forbid if that child's
parents
couldn't afford decent health insurance.


No, what I said is that we seem to believe we can live horrible
lifestyles and we have an entitlement to have some system that is
subsidized by others, either the government or the people in a group
who are making the healthy choices, to offset the effects of those
poor lifestyle choices. That's what sucks up the resources that would
be available for those exceptional cases where the illness is no fault
of the patient. And please site the case where a four year old is not
treated for cancer, whatever the financial status of the parents.


We're very, very quick to talk about "freedom," but we sure are slow to
talk
about decency when it comes to our own

And with that statement, I wonder why I even bother to respond.

Frank



Why are you paying for health insurance if you claim you don't and won't
need it? Seems foolish. You are free to drop your health insurance coverage
at any time.


Insurance is just that...the hedge agaisnt the bet that you may or may
not need it...but in one respect, you're correct...if a person is
magnificently healthy, then putting the money into an HSA might be a
better thing to do...

Capt. JG wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
...

Cal Vanize wrote:

Bob Crantz wrote:


"Capt. Rob" wrote in message



snip


RB
35s5
NY


snip

Oh the hypocrisy!!!!!



Hold on....

This controversy is all about Michael Moore making more money stirring up
controversy. He's making a career out of this and laughing at all
American society all the way to the bank.

Don't lead yourself to think there's any other motivation.


I don't think that's it...I think he is one of those altruistic people who
thinks they are doing the right thing...some of the things he says are
valid...the approach he takes, though, isn't and his conclusions and his
solutions are off base...I do not think he is an evil man..I just think he
is vastly de;luded...too much contact with Al Gore and his cronies...



If someone doesn't agree with you, then that person must be deluded. Seems
like a lot of effort lately doesn't it, especially given who you voted for
in the last two presidential elections.

You haven't a clue who I voted for in the last two elections...I wrote
in...unless you have some pull with the township I was registered in and
offered some sort of bribe, you cannot make that claim. And I am not the
only person that feels that Michael Moore is a deluded individual...as
per other posts to this group...If someone doesn't agree with yo, you
harangue and harass and become a total pain in the backside...why not
try a nice pill once in a while and stop making wild conjectures?

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:19:08 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
m...

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 09:48:00 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
news:mntc83d9rodko0301h8hdoag3e5llnpa0h@4ax. com...

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 11:02:01 -0000, thunder
wrote:


On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:36:25 -0700, Bart wrote:



What's the problem with government health systems?

What's more important, continued support for a private health care
system,
or American jobs? It seems
to be overlooked that our health care system costs upwards of 15%
GDP,
while those countries with
universal health care spend @10% GDP. That extra 5% is the reason
is
the
reason our automotive
sector is fleeing north, expanding operations in Canada, while
curtailing
them here. In a global economy,
5% extra cost puts us at a considerable economic disadvantage.
Ignore
that at your peril.


All manufacturing is fleeing, not just automotive, and health care
cost is a major driver. I know, I've been there. But universal
health care is not the answer.

Just recently, at a medical school close to my home, the state
legislature mandated to the board of higher education that the number
of seats be increased. There is a very large supply of eligible
candidates, many don't get in. It is the AMA's very sucessful, long
standing attempt to control the supply side, keeping fee schedules
very high.


That's just job losses. Let's not consider the lower life
expectancy
and
higher infant mortality our health
system provides.

Our health care system doesn't have anything to do with this. It is
a
matter of lifestyle choices. Want a lower infant mortality rate?
how
about a lower rate of teen mothers on drugs and alcohol. Want a
longer life expectancy? How about everyone get off your buns and get
some exercise and drop the high fat, high sugar diet.

Frank
Who runs 36 miles a week and at 60 has no aging diseases. No
diabetes, no high blood pressure, no cardiovascular issues, no joint,
ligament, or cartilage issues.


Universal health care is available in all modern cultures except ours.
I'm
sure we're glad you're healthy and can afford health care, but no one
has
a
contract with God.


And you miss the entire point. Adopting healthier lifestyles has
nothing to do with having a contract with God. It just diminishes the
need for the" healthcare" that we have come to believe is an
entitlement in this country, that is we can eat horribly, be obese,
smoke, lead completely sedentary lives, and if pregnant, take drugs,
alcohol and smoke, and we or our newborn will remain healthy, and if
that doesn't work, someone else has to pay to make it happen.

Anything the government has ever gotten involved in that requires cost
control and reasonable product or service has been a disaster.

Frank

And you've missed the point as well... all of your attempts to remain
healthy are great, but that has little to do with the money required to
save
your life or give you a decent quality of life if you get sick and don't
have insurance.

It is the point. I go to the doctor once a year for him to tell me
I'm healthy. There is no burdon on the system. Of course I'm paying
an exorbitant amount for health insurance which I don't need in order
to pay for those that have not made those healthy lifestyle choices.
That's how it works, and the only thing that can make it worse is for
the government to step in.




The VA insurance is a great example of gov't run healthcare
that for the most part works. They can negotiate prices for drugs, they
serve a vast community, mostly quite well.

So have you used the VA system? I had two close relatives now
deceased, who used the excellent VA system. father in law was one of
them. I'm not even going to comment on your assessment of it as a
system that works "quite well"



You're very quick to say that healthcare is an entitlement, as though it
isn't needed, not really. It is needed and that's demonstrated by the
millions who are uninsured, pushing up the costs for those who are. It's
demonstrated by people's inability to get affordable insurance that
sticks
with them, rather than changes with their employer. A child of four
getting
cancer is not a life-style problem, but gods forbid if that child's
parents
couldn't afford decent health insurance.


No, what I said is that we seem to believe we can live horrible
lifestyles and we have an entitlement to have some system that is
subsidized by others, either the government or the people in a group
who are making the healthy choices, to offset the effects of those
poor lifestyle choices. That's what sucks up the resources that would
be available for those exceptional cases where the illness is no fault
of the patient. And please site the case where a four year old is not
treated for cancer, whatever the financial status of the parents.


We're very, very quick to talk about "freedom," but we sure are slow to
talk
about decency when it comes to our own

And with that statement, I wonder why I even bother to respond.

Frank



Why are you paying for health insurance if you claim you don't and won't
need it? Seems foolish. You are free to drop your health insurance
coverage at any time.


Insurance is just that...the hedge agaisnt the bet that you may or may not
need it...but in one respect, you're correct...if a person is
magnificently healthy, then putting the money into an HSA might be a
better thing to do...


Frank just got telling us that he doesn't need insurance because he's
healthy. Can't imagine why he would need an HSA either.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com