Sicko': Heavily Doctored
Is Michael Moore's prescription worse than the disease?

By Kurt Loder

http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...58/story.jhtml

Except of the above.

**************************************************

The problem with American health care, Moore argues,
is that people are charged money to avail themselves
of it. In other countries, like Canada, France and Britain,
health systems are far superior - and they're free. He
takes us to these countries to see a few clean, efficient
hospitals, where treatment is quick and caring; and to
meet a few doctors, who are delighted with their
government-regulated salaries; and to listen to patients
express their beaming happiness with a socialized
health system. It sounds great. As one patient in a
British hospital run by the country's National Health
Service says, "No one pays. It's all on the NHS. It's
not America."

That last statement is even truer than you'd know
from watching "Sicko." In the case of Canada -
which Moore, like many other political activists, holds
p as a utopian ideal of benevolent health-care regulation
- a very different picture is conveyed by a short 2005
documentary called "Dead Meat," by Stuart Browning
and Blaine Greenberg. These two filmmakers talked
to a number of Canadians of a kind that Moore's movie
would have you believe don't exist:

A 52-year-old woman in Calgary recalls being in severe
need of joint-replacement surgery after the cartilage in
her knee wore out. She was put on a wait list and wound
up waiting 16 months for the surgery. Her pain was so
excruciating, she says, that she was prescribed large
doses of Oxycontin, and soon became addicted. After
finally getting her operation, she was put on another
wait list - this time for drug rehab.

A man tells about his mother waiting two years for
life-saving cancer surgery - and then twice having
her surgical appointments canceled. She was still
waiting when she died.

A man in critical need of neck surgery plays a voicemail
message from a doctor he'd contacted: "As of today,"
she says, "it's a two-year wait-list to see me for an
initial consultation." Later, when the man and his wife
both needed hip-replacement surgery and grew
exasperated after spending two years on a waiting list,
they finally mortgaged their home and flew to Belgium
to have the operations done there, with no more waiting.

Rick Baker, the owner of a Toronto company called
Timely Medical Alternatives, specializes in transporting
Canadians who don't want to wait for medical care to
Buffalo, New York, two hours away, where they won't
have to. Baker's business is apparently thriving.

And Dr. Brian Day, now the president of the Canadian
Medical Association, muses about the bizarre
distortions created by a law that prohibits Canadians
from paying for even urgently-needed medical
treatments, or from obtaining private health insurance.
"It's legal to buy health insurance for your pets," Day
says, "but illegal to buy health insurance for yourself."
(Even more pointedly, Day was quoted in the Wall
Street Journal this week as saying, "This is a country
in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a
week and in which humans can wait two to three
years.")

Actually, this aspect of the Canadian health-care
system is changing. In 2005, the Canadian Supreme
Court ruled in favor of a man who had filed suit in
Quebec over being kept on an interminable waiting
list for treatment. In striking down the government
health care monopoly in that province, Chief Justice
Beverley McLachlin said, "Access to a waiting list is
not access to health care." Now a similar suit has
been filed in Ontario.

What's the problem with government health systems?
Moore's movie doesn't ask that question, although it
does unintentionally provide an answer. When
governments attempt to regulate the balance between
a limited supply of health care and an unlimited demand
for it they're inevitably forced to ration treatment.

What's the problem with government health systems?
Moore's movie doesn't ask that question, although it
does unintentionally provide an answer. When
governments attempt to regulate the balance between
a limited supply of health care and an unlimited demand
for it they're inevitably forced to ration treatment.



So...we shouldn't have health care for everyone like in other
countries because it has flaws? Because we can't do it even better
than they can? I have quite a few European friends and all prefer the
health care "over there" to here. In fact, with several having free
care here and overseas, they often opt to fly over for better
treatment. This is not the case for all procedures of course and you
can come up with a zillion horror stories.
I have about the best medical plan and care available since 4 of my
closest family members are doctors/nurses and my wife is a nurse. I
also have access to money that most people don't. And yet I still know
that our medical system is a joke compared to overseas, as do many of
the nurses we know who's come to the USA in recent years.
No WMDs.



RB
35s5
NY

"Bart" wrote in message
oups.com...
Sicko': Heavily Doctored
Is Michael Moore's prescription worse than the disease?

By Kurt Loder

http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...58/story.jhtml

Except of the above.


We're the only "modern" country that doesn't have universal health care.
They all must be wrong.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:
"Bart" wrote in message
oups.com...

Sicko': Heavily Doctored
Is Michael Moore's prescription worse than the disease?

By Kurt Loder

http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...58/story.jhtml

Except of the above.



We're the only "modern" country that doesn't have universal health care.
They all must be wrong.


Erroneous thinking...a preponderance of the world is Asian....we must
change our genetics...a preponderance of the world is Muslim...we must
all become Muslims...

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
"Bart" wrote in message
oups.com...

Sicko': Heavily Doctored
Is Michael Moore's prescription worse than the disease?

By Kurt Loder

http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...58/story.jhtml

Except of the above.



We're the only "modern" country that doesn't have universal health care.
They all must be wrong.


Erroneous thinking...a preponderance of the world is Asian....we must
change our genetics...a preponderance of the world is Muslim...we must all
become Muslims...


So, I guess it's ok with you if 12 million American children don't have
health care. Got it!


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
...

Capt. JG wrote:

"Bart" wrote in message
egroups.com...


Sicko': Heavily Doctored
Is Michael Moore's prescription worse than the disease?

By Kurt Loder

http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...58/story.jhtml

Except of the above.



We're the only "modern" country that doesn't have universal health care.
They all must be wrong.


Erroneous thinking...a preponderance of the world is Asian....we must
change our genetics...a preponderance of the world is Muslim...we must all
become Muslims...



So, I guess it's ok with you if 12 million American children don't have
health care. Got it!


It's 8.9m and a goodly number of them ARE eligible for Medicaid or other
programs but aren't enrolled...thus making it an education problem, not
a healthcare problem...
http://www.aap.org/research/factsheet.pdf

To ameliorate the problem of those that don't qualify, legislation
should be passed that finds a way to take care of them...I've had
personal experience, on several levels, with Canada's national
healthcare system...it is not something I would want for myself or any
of mine (which is a joke because half my mother's side of the family is
in Canada...they can tell you some real horror stories about national
health care..) And why would you think our overburdened, bureaucratic
governemnt could hgandle anything like national health care? Expand
Medicaid. Expand Medicare. Nationalize insurance companies or
drastically change the way insurance companies are allowed to exist.
Those things are feasible. National health care, in our system, would be
a sorry mess.

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
...

Capt. JG wrote:

"Bart" wrote in message
legroups.com...


Sicko': Heavily Doctored
Is Michael Moore's prescription worse than the disease?

By Kurt Loder

http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...58/story.jhtml

Except of the above.



We're the only "modern" country that doesn't have universal health care.
They all must be wrong.


Erroneous thinking...a preponderance of the world is Asian....we must
change our genetics...a preponderance of the world is Muslim...we must
all become Muslims...



So, I guess it's ok with you if 12 million American children don't have
health care. Got it!


It's 8.9m and a goodly number of them ARE eligible for Medicaid or other
programs but aren't enrolled...thus making it an education problem, not a
healthcare problem...
http://www.aap.org/research/factsheet.pdf

To ameliorate the problem of those that don't qualify, legislation should
be passed that finds a way to take care of them...I've had personal
experience, on several levels, with Canada's national healthcare
system...it is not something I would want for myself or any of mine (which
is a joke because half my mother's side of the family is in Canada...they
can tell you some real horror stories about national health care..) And
why would you think our overburdened, bureaucratic governemnt could
hgandle anything like national health care? Expand Medicaid. Expand
Medicare. Nationalize insurance companies or drastically change the way
insurance companies are allowed to exist. Those things are feasible.
National health care, in our system, would be a sorry mess.


So, you're talking about expanding a gov't program to include all. I'm for
it. "Expand Medicare"

Besides, those who do have coverage are at risk of losing it should they
lose their job, and they're at risk when insurance companies refuse to pay.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:36:25 -0700, Bart wrote:


What's the problem with government health systems?

What's more important, continued support for a private health care system, or American jobs? It seems
to be overlooked that our health care system costs upwards of 15% GDP, while those countries with
universal health care spend @10% GDP. That extra 5% is the reason is the reason our automotive
sector is fleeing north, expanding operations in Canada, while curtailing them here. In a global economy,
5% extra cost puts us at a considerable economic disadvantage. Ignore that at your peril.

That's just job losses. Let's not consider the lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality our health
system provides.

On Jun 30, 6:02 am, thunder wrote:
That extra 5% is the reason is the reason our automotive
sector is fleeing north, expanding operations in Canada, while curtailing them here.


Bull****. Try unions, and massive retirements.

Joe

In a global economy,
5% extra cost puts us at a considerable economic disadvantage. Ignore that at your peril.

That's just job losses. Let's not consider the lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality our health
system provides.

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 04:53:46 -0700, Joe wrote:

On Jun 30, 6:02 am, thunder wrote:
That extra 5% is the reason is the reason our automotive
sector is fleeing north, expanding operations in Canada, while
curtailing them here.


Bull****. Try unions, and massive retirements.

LOL, ever hear of the Canadian Auto Workers? They split with the UAW because they didn't like the give-
backs of their less militant brethren.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Auto_Workers

As I'm sure you wouldn't believe anything that came out of the Washington Post or the New York Times,
I've added a link to a few words GM's CEO Richard Wagoner has said:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/08/bu...y/08view.html?
ex=1183348800&en=da2a056faa75dd28&ei=5070

http://www.thenewsherald.com/stories...40919004.shtml