In article .com,
toad wrote:
On 13 Mar, 02:36, wrote:

That galley rowing
all the time's a killer. Wikopedia says the Romans introduced it,

I've just read a biography of Boudica. That concurs that the Romans
were the first to come up with Galleys with multiple tiers of oars
giving a serious alternative power source. Designed for the first

Not even nearly. Try the Greeks in the ~700-800 BCE era for two-tier
galleys (/probably/ the Ionian city-states). Triremes (three tiers) were
introduced (by Samos?) somewhere around or before 600 BCE and were the
most common "capital ships" until the Hellenistic period, after the
break-up of Alexander the Great's empire - the successor states then
began putting more than one man on an oar, leading eventually to galleys
with 20 men diposed on three vertically-tiered oars (Ptolemy IV went as
far as a catamaran galley with two "twentys" fastened together. A big, big
ship with plenty of oar power. Probably a brute to handle under sail,
though.

The big galleys vanished from sight after Actium, and by the time of the
Roman invasion of Britain (Claudius, not Caesar's raiding expeditions)
they were long gone - galleys of the Imperial period were small biremes
(Liburnians - two-deck galleys) and a few triremes - back to the Greek
ships of nearly 500 years before, in size at least.

http://www.amazon.com/Ships-Seamansh.../dp/0801851300

is probably the best general reference on the subject.

The Romans knew damn all about boats and damn all about seamanship
outside of the Med. Apparently they just copied their boats from the
Greeks, and added oars. Great example of fresh thinking, and coming up

Copied more from Carthegian designs than Greek - Greek ships were
still much bigger than the Roman or Cartheginian ships of that period.

--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)

On 13 Mar, 14:01, (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:
In article .com,

toad wrote:
On 13 Mar, 02:36, wrote:

That galley rowing
all the time's a killer. Wikopedia says the Romans introduced it,

I've just read a biography of Boudica. That concurs that the Romans
were the first to come up with Galleys with multiple tiers of oars
giving a serious alternative power source. Designed for the first

Not even nearly. Try the Greeks in the ~700-800 BCE era for two-tier
galleys (/probably/ the Ionian city-states). Triremes (three tiers) were
introduced (by Samos?) somewhere around or before 600 BCE and were the
most common "capital ships" until the Hellenistic period, after the
break-up of Alexander the Great's empire - the successor states then
began putting more than one man on an oar, leading eventually to galleys
with 20 men diposed on three vertically-tiered oars (Ptolemy IV went as
far as a catamaran galley with two "twentys" fastened together. A big, big
ship with plenty of oar power. Probably a brute to handle under sail,
though.

Probably my memory at fault.

The big galleys vanished from sight after Actium, and by the time of the
Roman invasion of Britain (Claudius, not Caesar's raiding expeditions)
they were long gone -

I'm pretty sure that's not the case. The same 3 tier ships were used
to put down Gaulish sailors by Claudius in preperation for his
invasion of Britain and that was well after Actium. 3 tier ships were
part of the equipment produced to invade Britain, IIRC before then the
Romans had no interest in seafaring outside of the Med. Ergo,
something designed especially for the invasion of Britain could not
have been obselete at the time of the invasion of Britain. (I think.)

In article . com,
toad wrote:
On 13 Mar, 14:01, (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:
In article .com,

toad wrote:

I've just read a biography of Boudica. That concurs that the Romans
were the first to come up with Galleys with multiple tiers of oars
giving a serious alternative power source. Designed for the first

The big galleys vanished from sight after Actium, and by the time of the
Roman invasion of Britain (Claudius, not Caesar's raiding expeditions)
they were long gone -

I'm pretty sure that's not the case. The same 3 tier ships were used
to put down Gaulish sailors by Claudius in preperation for his
invasion of Britain and that was well after Actium. 3 tier ships were

Small triremes were (IIRC) used, though by AD 43 Gaullish resistance was
well-pacified (heck, by AD 43 I think Claudius had got the Senate to
accept Gauls as Senators... - or was that post-invasion once he had some
prestige to use). This may have been to do with the invasion fleet (like
the rest of the invasion force) having been assembled by Caligula, who
was a sucker for things which looked impressive.

Julius certainly used Triremes (and, I think, a few "fours" and "fives" -
two- and three- level ships with more than one man per oar) against the
Veneti fleet (of large, powerful sailing ships; not dissimilar so far as
can be told from the early-medieavel "Hulk") - the battles you're
describing sound more like those of the 50s BC than 43 AD. Julius' raids
were, of course, before Actium.

part of the equipment produced to invade Britain, IIRC before then the
Romans had no interest in seafaring outside of the Med. Ergo,
something designed especially for the invasion of Britain could not
have been obselete at the time of the invasion of Britain. (I think.)

It's possible that Caligula "re-invented" the Trireme for this. It's
amazing what you can claim when you're a God..

--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)

toad wrote:
I've just read a biography of Boudica.

While we are on the pedantry trail - two Cs, or else you can't misread
it as Boadicea.

Andy

"katy" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:


What's more important is being civil. Usenet is chock full of
gold-plated assholes. No point in adding yourself to the list.

Max
He's been on that list for quite some time...

I know, but I was giving him a chance to repent. (or take the hook which.
to his credit, he assiduously avoided)

Max

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Frogwatch,

Before you cut off those Lateen Booms, thinks a bit. The Lateen Rig
uses
a very simple mast; No sail track, No Boom jaws, No Gaff Jaws, No
complicated rigging on the gaff to shape the sail.

The Lateen is a very simple sail and by bringing the Booms together
with the sail coming to a point it can be kept simple.
AND

Watch Neal, using Wilbur's name, come Stalking with some kind of
STUPID
comment(G)


Ole Thom, you are a brilliant man. You used to sail the most desirable
sailboat of anybody here. You are slim, fit and handsome.

You know something? You were 100% correct about the STUPID comments BG

Wilbur Hubbard

On 13 Mar, 19:39, Andy Champ wrote:
toad wrote:
I've just read a biography of Boudica.

While we are on the pedantry trail - two Cs, or else you can't misread
it as Boadicea.

Clue: It wasn't misread as Boadicea from an English language text.

The current English language spelling is as I wrote it. (http://
tinyurl.com/2rp6q2) Of course that's academic. Nobody knows if she
really existed. If she existed, nobody knows if she was really leader
of the rebellion or a smaller player. Nobody knows if Boudica was a
name or a title. Nobody knows how the name or title was spelt or what
it really meant. (Boudica probably translates as Victorious but nobody
knows.) Spellings of the name of the Iceni warrior Queen run into
dozens. Some completely unrecognizable as Boudica, some pretty
similar. Voudica is a similar one for instance.

In short, you can, with some credibility, spell the name/title of the
Iceni warrior Queen any way you wish. What you can't do with any
credibility is tell someone else how they should spell it.

"Jewel" wrote in message
...
Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails goes about without
dropping its sail and resetting it on the other side.
Many thanks
Very many thanks for all the informative replies.
Thanks again

On 12 Mar, 14:06, jg wrote:
Jewel wrote:
Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails goes about without
dropping its sail and resetting it on the other side.
Many thanks

That's lateen. They generally just have a "bad tack" with the sail
pressed against the mast, but I'm sure I have seen dhows bring the base
of the yard around behind the mast so it sets right on either tack.

But it is well known that on the "bad tack" a Sunfish will actually
point higher than on the "good tack". This may not apply to a dhow.

Owen

Owen McCall wrote:
On 12 Mar, 14:06, jg wrote:
Jewel wrote:
Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails goes about without
dropping its sail and resetting it on the other side.
Many thanks
That's lateen. They generally just have a "bad tack" with the sail
pressed against the mast, but I'm sure I have seen dhows bring the base
of the yard around behind the mast so it sets right on either tack.

But it is well known that on the "bad tack" a Sunfish will actually
point higher than on the "good tack". This may not apply to a dhow.

Never seen a sunfish sail, but it makes sense they would point higher.
Whatever reason dhows might tack the yard, it's probably not performance.