OzOne wrote in message ...

More guns equal more murders - study

From correspondents in Washington

January 12, 2007 02:18pm
Article from: Reuters


AMERICAN states where more people own guns have higher murder rates,
including murders of children, researchers at the Harvard School of
Public Health have reported.

Oz, you are either damned gullible, or patently disingenuous. This study
includes illegal gun ownership, in fact it was specifically designed to not
only include illegally-owned guns, but to highlight them. Nearly every
inner city gang thug and/or drug dealer/trafficker owns a gun or twelve.
And the "children" in the study include anyone up to and including 20 years
of age, expressly including the gang members and druggies who are killed
every day in this country.

Eliminate the gangs and the drug subculture and the conclusion of this study
is completely invalid.

Max

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...6-1702,00.html
Really...they used available statistics..where does your information
come from?

Exactly. One thing I learned in all of those science classes in college was
NEVER BELIEVE A STUDY THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE STASTISTICS. Oh yeah and always
look at the criteria for those statistics and how the collected them.

That is also a news article posted in an Australian news site. I would say
that any foreign news source that claims some unheard of American group came
up with some kin dof numbers is probably less than reputable. But the news
never lies.

--
Message posted via BoatKB.com
http://www.boatkb.com/Uwe/Forums.asp...iling/200701/1

scbafreak via BoatKB.com wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...6-1702,00.html
Really...they used available statistics..where does your information
come from?

Exactly. One thing I learned in all of those science classes in college was
NEVER BELIEVE A STUDY THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE STASTISTICS. Oh yeah and always
look at the criteria for those statistics and how the collected them.

That is also a news article posted in an Australian news site. I would say
that any foreign news source that claims some unheard of American group came
up with some kin dof numbers is probably less than reputable. But the news
never lies.


The numbers came from a major study done, in part, by the US Centers
for Disease Controls and Prevention, the CDC. In other words, the US
government. The study did a large number of survey in households
across the country, and asked a large number of questions. The
primary goal was medical, but a lot of data, such as the number of
households with a gun, was collected.

The numbers came from a major study done, in part, by the US Centers
for Disease Controls and Prevention, the CDC.

Yes the numbers came from data collected that was not focusing on this topic.
Not only does that lend no credibility to the data on gun ownership but also
no distinguishing between legal vs. illegal ownership. Also, because the
study that collected the data was not based on gun ownership no measures were
taken to offset those that are lying about gun ownership because they don't
trust the government. If the CDC had collected the data with this projec tin
mind I would be a little less scepticle but you can't take numbers that
someone else collected as a side note then combine it with other data and
call it good research.

They say right here "His team used data from a US Centres for Disease Control
and Prevention survey of 200,000 people in all 50 states." Not his team
worked with the CDC to collect data. Not His team used data collected for a
similar purpose.

This study also doesn't say what they mean by states with highest gun
ownership. Is that numbers of guns in houses that posses at least one,
numbers of guns per thousand housholds, or just highest numbers. They say
"In states with the most guns". Since California has over 36 million people
while North Dakota has just over 600,000 It could be that everyone in ND owns
a gun while only 10% of Californians do but in CA we would come out with more
gun ownership even though a lot less houses would have them. In this
hypothetical scenario there would be well over one gun per houshold in ND but
they would still be put much lower on the list.

This is what I mean by not taking them at thier word. They are not reporting
any real information here just enough to get people all upset and post this
crap on NGs all over the world.

--
Message posted via BoatKB.com
http://www.boatkb.com/Uwe/Forums.asp...iling/200701/1

If guns can't prevent or stop crime then why are police armed?

The only logical conclusion based upon guns causing crime is that the police
are criminals.

Why does it bother you that people who live on the other side of the earth
own guns? Wouldn't it be more productive to worry about your wonderful
Muslim neighbors? Perhaps ChiCom imperialist expansion?

America has not invaded or taken over a country in more than 4 years so I
don't understand your concerns.

because they need to be armed against an armed community.

Saying that guns are responsible for crime is like saying pencils are
responsible for misspelled words. The people are responsible. In countries
that ban firearms there is just as much crime, not to mention that KILLING
SOMEONE IS ILLEGAL. If you make the gun illegal why would someone say 'oh
well I was going to shoot you but owning a gun is illegal so i guess I wont'.
Yeah that's real bright.

--
Message posted via BoatKB.com
http://www.boatkb.com/Uwe/Forums.asp...iling/200701/1

OzOne wrote in message news
On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:22:53 -0700, "Gilligan"
scribbled thusly:

If guns can't prevent or stop crime then why are police armed?

because they need to be armed against an armed community.



An armed community. Just what the second amendment intended. That is the
ultimate check against government excess and abuse.

Unarmed Australian citizens are living in a police state. You just don't
know it yet.

Switzerland: An assault rifle on every mantle, a rocket launcher in every
garage. Never invaded, not even by the Nazis.

The Swiss even get their ammo subsidized by the government:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_pol...in_Switzerland

How much are you paying for ammo in Ozzie land?

One might conclude that as a society the Ozzies are barbarians compared to
the Swiss. Can't trust 'em with guns.

Here's the proper outlook on guns in America:

Guns In the Household
68-year old gun owner Lloyd Bonifide claims it keeps his mind sharp and
adrenaline up if he leaves a loaded weapon somewhere in the house with his
5-year old grandson. This is full segment featuring the classic clip "Lloyd
fights his way off hold." from March 2000. (00:30:08)



Amen!

Yeah yeah, heard it before.
Put a gun in someones hand and when he gets ****ed off, or depressed,
he may use it.
No gun and he might just think..or even just punch someone in the nose
not 'blow em away'

Yes because logically it is the same thing. The other day I waas cutting
some meat for dinner, I got ****ed off at some A-hole and I stabbed him in
the face. The government should have never let me make dinner in the first
place. It wasn't my fault, I had no choice in my actions and the
consequences really have nothing to do with me. it was the chickens fault
for not being born in bite sized pieces. No wait that 'might' be stretching
it a bit far. I should have to give up some freedom, control over my life
and the idea that I can decide between right and wrong because knives are
sharp and guns push a peice of metal really fast. Yes that is okay.

Did you know that one of the first things Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin did
when they got into power was to implement gun control policies and make the
people think it was a good idea to take away their guns? Today the democrats
justification, in the U.S., to reduce gun ownership is alomst identical to
the justification that Hitler used.

--
Message posted via http://www.boatkb.com

Yes, nothing like a good shootout with Police eh....

I would rather the police be able to shoot back at some criminal that is
carrying an illegal weapon, doing illegal things then have then just say in a
firm tone while holding a stick that they should calm down and stop shooting
people.

--
Message posted via http://www.boatkb.com

Actually it's not.
They have seen the figures and studies....Hitler and Musso did none.

Hitler did studies saying that whites were biologically supperior to every
other race on the planet therby justifying murdering all of them. Studies
are not all encompassing and conclusive. There is no real good data saying
that having legal firearms ownership causes crime. I am a big advocate on
firearms safety training for everyone that owns one. Most accidents are
because people don't know better. All non-accidents are because people
wanted to kill someone. Killing people is already illegal.

--
Message posted via http://www.boatkb.com