"Scotty" wrote
| Would a 'tow' like this have 'privilege?

No!


| Would he be
| considered a RAM? Wouldn't he need to be displaying a day
| shape? Given that I had ample time to cross, was I still
| wrong to do so?

No, no, no....


Sailboats are the stand-on vessel in crossing situations with powerboats. One little power boat towing another isn't a RAM. The
rule is for big ships tugs and barges. It's not meant for small recreational power boats.

Cheers,
Ellen

"Scotty" wrote in
news
Last week while sailing up a river channel, about 200yds
wide, doing 3 kts in light. wind, I spotted , off my
starboard stern quarter,2 powerboats, 'sitting' next to
each other. I figured they were fishing, or just talking to
each other. Then they seemed to be trolling, very slowly up
river, as I was cutting across the channel at an angle, I
figured I had plenty of time to cross in front of them,
rather than behind in case they WERE trolling lines.
Then the lead PB starts honking his horn ( like a NYer, when
the light turns green) and yelling. I heard something about
my Mother, and towing and privilege. Since we were both
going slow, and not real close, I continued on my coarse. he
never got closer than 100 ft. Only after they passed did I
see the small towing line between them.

Would a 'tow' like this have 'privilege?

Not necessarily

Would he be
considered a RAM?

Possibly....if he cannot deviate from his course/speed up/slow down

Wouldn't he need to be displaying a day
shape?

Can't remember where I read this, but no. If a vessel is not normally
engaged in this type operation and would not normally carry these type
day shapes because of their size then they need not be displayed but they
should make every effort to inform (blowing a horn like a NY taxi driver)

Given that I had ample time to cross, was I still
wrong to do so?

If you could do so safely with ample clearance, no.... ample clearance is
the key phrase.


Even if it had been a properly marked 'real' towboat, and
someone crossed in front, causing the tow to turn, but no
collision happened, what if anything could/should be done to
the crossing boat?

First off, a "real" towboat is still obligated to obey the normal
steering and sailing rules unless they are RAM (and RAM is not an
automatic designation for a towboat), so there can be any number of
possibilities as to right or wrong in your maneuver.
In answer to your question..... no harm no foul.... expect a tongue
lashing. Naturally if your maneuver was "illegal" and the turn the
towboat had to make to avoid a collision endangered or caused injury to
the tug,it's tow,or crew then you should expect a report to the various
authorities and possible actions, collision or not.

Is there penalties for near misses?

To date, not generally.


otn

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
25.201...
"Scotty" wrote in
news
Last week while sailing up a river channel, about 200yds
wide, doing 3 kts in light. wind, I spotted , off my
starboard stern quarter,2 powerboats, 'sitting' next to
each other. I figured they were fishing, or just talking
to
each other. Then they seemed to be trolling, very slowly
up
river, as I was cutting across the channel at an angle,
I
figured I had plenty of time to cross in front of them,
rather than behind in case they WERE trolling lines.
Then the lead PB starts honking his horn ( like a NYer,
when
the light turns green) and yelling. I heard something
about
my Mother, and towing and privilege. Since we were both
going slow, and not real close, I continued on my
coarse. he
never got closer than 100 ft. Only after they passed did
I
see the small towing line between them.

Would a 'tow' like this have 'privilege?

Not necessarily


I didn't think so, but I wasn't sure. I would have gybed
away had he not cursed at me from the get go.




Would he be
considered a RAM?

Possibly....if he cannot deviate from his course/speed
up/slow down


I would imagine he wouldn't want to slow down , seeing as
how short the 'tow rope' ( dockline?) was., but he certainly
could have steered a few degrees to port.




Given that I had ample time to cross, was I still
wrong to do so?

If you could do so safely with ample clearance, no....
ample clearance is
the key phrase.


Ample time in my mind, maybe not his?



Even if it had been a properly marked 'real' towboat,
and
someone crossed in front, causing the tow to turn, but
no
collision happened, what if anything could/should be
done to
the crossing boat?

First off, a "real" towboat is still obligated to obey the
normal
steering and sailing rules unless they are RAM (and RAM is
not an
automatic designation for a towboat), so there can be any
number of
possibilities as to right or wrong in your maneuver.
In answer to your question..... no harm no foul.... expect
a tongue
lashing. Naturally if your maneuver was "illegal" and the
turn the
towboat had to make to avoid a collision endangered or
caused injury to
the tug,it's tow,or crew then you should expect a report
to the various
authorities and possible actions, collision or not.

Is there penalties for near misses?

To date, not generally.


otn


Thanks, otn.

SBV

"Scotty" wrote
| I didn't think so, but I wasn't sure. I would have gybed
| away had he not cursed at me from the get go.



I wonder why your making a big deal out of this. Your sailboat is the stand-on vessel. Recreational small power
boats towing another power boat because it's broke down or something isn't *work*. The nature of *work* is what
makes a RAM. The rule talks about the nature of the work. So they don't have any standing in the rules. They're not
RAM, they're not entitled to special treatment. If they know the rules then they still have to follow the power boat
rules. You didn't do anything wrong.
Don't let power boat people push you around. Most of them know nothing about the rules. Where did they get the
idea that towing their friend who broke down gives them special rights? Does that mean a boat towing a knee boarder
has special rights? Duh! What about when your tow your dinghy behind. Does that give you special rights? Double Duh!
I'm afraid this otn is wrong. He's mostly right but a little wrong.

Cheers,
Ellen

"Scotty" wrote in
:


"otnmbrd" wrote in message
25.201...
"Scotty" wrote in
news
Last week while sailing up a river channel, about 200yds
wide, doing 3 kts in light. wind, I spotted , off my
starboard stern quarter,2 powerboats, 'sitting' next to
each other. I figured they were fishing, or just talking
to
each other. Then they seemed to be trolling, very slowly
up
river, as I was cutting across the channel at an angle,
I
figured I had plenty of time to cross in front of them,
rather than behind in case they WERE trolling lines.
Then the lead PB starts honking his horn ( like a NYer,
when
the light turns green) and yelling. I heard something
about
my Mother, and towing and privilege. Since we were both
going slow, and not real close, I continued on my
coarse. he
never got closer than 100 ft. Only after they passed did
I
see the small towing line between them.

Would a 'tow' like this have 'privilege?

Not necessarily


I didn't think so, but I wasn't sure. I would have gybed
away had he not cursed at me from the get go.




Would he be
considered a RAM?

Possibly....if he cannot deviate from his course/speed
up/slow down


I would imagine he wouldn't want to slow down , seeing as
how short the 'tow rope' ( dockline?) was., but he certainly
could have steered a few degrees to port.

If you're in a river and stemming a tide/river current, then slowing down
is a possibility


Given that I had ample time to cross, was I still
wrong to do so?

If you could do so safely with ample clearance, no....
ample clearance is
the key phrase.


Ample time in my mind, maybe not his?

G Always a problem. Judgement calls are just that..... what may be clear
to you may not be clear to me and vice versa.

otn

Seems like blowing a horn after the fact is a bit late, but it's not clear
if they were sounding the horn before or during.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
25.201...
"Scotty" wrote in
news
Last week while sailing up a river channel, about 200yds
wide, doing 3 kts in light. wind, I spotted , off my
starboard stern quarter,2 powerboats, 'sitting' next to
each other. I figured they were fishing, or just talking to
each other. Then they seemed to be trolling, very slowly up
river, as I was cutting across the channel at an angle, I
figured I had plenty of time to cross in front of them,
rather than behind in case they WERE trolling lines.
Then the lead PB starts honking his horn ( like a NYer, when
the light turns green) and yelling. I heard something about
my Mother, and towing and privilege. Since we were both
going slow, and not real close, I continued on my coarse. he
never got closer than 100 ft. Only after they passed did I
see the small towing line between them.

Would a 'tow' like this have 'privilege?

Not necessarily

Would he be
considered a RAM?

Possibly....if he cannot deviate from his course/speed up/slow down

Wouldn't he need to be displaying a day
shape?

Can't remember where I read this, but no. If a vessel is not normally
engaged in this type operation and would not normally carry these type
day shapes because of their size then they need not be displayed but they
should make every effort to inform (blowing a horn like a NY taxi driver)

Given that I had ample time to cross, was I still
wrong to do so?

If you could do so safely with ample clearance, no.... ample clearance is
the key phrase.


Even if it had been a properly marked 'real' towboat, and
someone crossed in front, causing the tow to turn, but no
collision happened, what if anything could/should be done to
the crossing boat?

First off, a "real" towboat is still obligated to obey the normal
steering and sailing rules unless they are RAM (and RAM is not an
automatic designation for a towboat), so there can be any number of
possibilities as to right or wrong in your maneuver.
In answer to your question..... no harm no foul.... expect a tongue
lashing. Naturally if your maneuver was "illegal" and the turn the
towboat had to make to avoid a collision endangered or caused injury to
the tug,it's tow,or crew then you should expect a report to the various
authorities and possible actions, collision or not.

Is there penalties for near misses?

To date, not generally.


otn

it was JUST before, I think had I tried to gybe or tack, ,
in that light wind I would have ended up more in their way.

SBV



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Seems like blowing a horn after the fact is a bit late,
but it's not clear
if they were sounding the horn before or during.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"otnmbrd" wrote in message

25.201...
"Scotty" wrote in
news
Last week while sailing up a river channel, about
200yds
wide, doing 3 kts in light. wind, I spotted , off my
starboard stern quarter,2 powerboats, 'sitting' next
to
each other. I figured they were fishing, or just
talking to
each other. Then they seemed to be trolling, very
slowly up
river, as I was cutting across the channel at an angle,
I
figured I had plenty of time to cross in front of them,
rather than behind in case they WERE trolling lines.
Then the lead PB starts honking his horn ( like a NYer,
when
the light turns green) and yelling. I heard something
about
my Mother, and towing and privilege. Since we were both
going slow, and not real close, I continued on my
coarse. he
never got closer than 100 ft. Only after they passed
did I
see the small towing line between them.

Would a 'tow' like this have 'privilege?

Not necessarily

Would he be
considered a RAM?

Possibly....if he cannot deviate from his course/speed
up/slow down

Wouldn't he need to be displaying a day
shape?

Can't remember where I read this, but no. If a vessel is
not normally
engaged in this type operation and would not normally
carry these type
day shapes because of their size then they need not be
displayed but they
should make every effort to inform (blowing a horn like
a NY taxi driver)

Given that I had ample time to cross, was I still
wrong to do so?

If you could do so safely with ample clearance, no....
ample clearance is
the key phrase.


Even if it had been a properly marked 'real' towboat,
and
someone crossed in front, causing the tow to turn, but
no
collision happened, what if anything could/should be
done to
the crossing boat?

First off, a "real" towboat is still obligated to obey
the normal
steering and sailing rules unless they are RAM (and RAM
is not an
automatic designation for a towboat), so there can be
any number of
possibilities as to right or wrong in your maneuver.
In answer to your question..... no harm no foul....
expect a tongue
lashing. Naturally if your maneuver was "illegal" and
the turn the
towboat had to make to avoid a collision endangered or
caused injury to
the tug,it's tow,or crew then you should expect a report
to the various
authorities and possible actions, collision or not.

Is there penalties for near misses?

To date, not generally.


otn

Sounds like you did the right thing. Giving them the finger is about right
also.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
it was JUST before, I think had I tried to gybe or tack, ,
in that light wind I would have ended up more in their way.

SBV



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Seems like blowing a horn after the fact is a bit late,
but it's not clear
if they were sounding the horn before or during.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"otnmbrd" wrote in message

25.201...
"Scotty" wrote in
news
Last week while sailing up a river channel, about
200yds
wide, doing 3 kts in light. wind, I spotted , off my
starboard stern quarter,2 powerboats, 'sitting' next
to
each other. I figured they were fishing, or just
talking to
each other. Then they seemed to be trolling, very
slowly up
river, as I was cutting across the channel at an angle,
I
figured I had plenty of time to cross in front of them,
rather than behind in case they WERE trolling lines.
Then the lead PB starts honking his horn ( like a NYer,
when
the light turns green) and yelling. I heard something
about
my Mother, and towing and privilege. Since we were both
going slow, and not real close, I continued on my
coarse. he
never got closer than 100 ft. Only after they passed
did I
see the small towing line between them.

Would a 'tow' like this have 'privilege?

Not necessarily

Would he be
considered a RAM?

Possibly....if he cannot deviate from his course/speed
up/slow down

Wouldn't he need to be displaying a day
shape?

Can't remember where I read this, but no. If a vessel is
not normally
engaged in this type operation and would not normally
carry these type
day shapes because of their size then they need not be
displayed but they
should make every effort to inform (blowing a horn like
a NY taxi driver)

Given that I had ample time to cross, was I still
wrong to do so?

If you could do so safely with ample clearance, no....
ample clearance is
the key phrase.


Even if it had been a properly marked 'real' towboat,
and
someone crossed in front, causing the tow to turn, but
no
collision happened, what if anything could/should be
done to
the crossing boat?

First off, a "real" towboat is still obligated to obey
the normal
steering and sailing rules unless they are RAM (and RAM
is not an
automatic designation for a towboat), so there can be
any number of
possibilities as to right or wrong in your maneuver.
In answer to your question..... no harm no foul....
expect a tongue
lashing. Naturally if your maneuver was "illegal" and
the turn the
towboat had to make to avoid a collision endangered or
caused injury to
the tug,it's tow,or crew then you should expect a report
to the various
authorities and possible actions, collision or not.

Is there penalties for near misses?

To date, not generally.


otn

I was about to but thought maybe I better not, you never
know what some creep might do to your boat when you're away
and it's in the slip. This happened right near my marina.

I did however flip off some stupid jerks who were trolling
and cut right across my intended path and then yelled that
they had lines in the water. I heard some big time cussing,
then a loud SNAP! , and more cussing. I gave the finger and
kept on sailing

Scotty


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Sounds like you did the right thing. Giving them the
finger is about right
also.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
it was JUST before, I think had I tried to gybe or tack,
,
in that light wind I would have ended up more in their
way.

SBV



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Seems like blowing a horn after the fact is a bit late,
but it's not clear
if they were sounding the horn before or during.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"otnmbrd" wrote in message


25.201...
"Scotty" wrote in
news
Last week while sailing up a river channel, about
200yds
wide, doing 3 kts in light. wind, I spotted , off my
starboard stern quarter,2 powerboats, 'sitting'
next
to
each other. I figured they were fishing, or just
talking to
each other. Then they seemed to be trolling, very
slowly up
river, as I was cutting across the channel at an
angle,
I
figured I had plenty of time to cross in front of
them,
rather than behind in case they WERE trolling
lines.
Then the lead PB starts honking his horn ( like a
NYer,
when
the light turns green) and yelling. I heard
something
about
my Mother, and towing and privilege. Since we were
both
going slow, and not real close, I continued on my
coarse. he
never got closer than 100 ft. Only after they passed
did I
see the small towing line between them.

Would a 'tow' like this have 'privilege?

Not necessarily

Would he be
considered a RAM?

Possibly....if he cannot deviate from his
course/speed
up/slow down

Wouldn't he need to be displaying a day
shape?

Can't remember where I read this, but no. If a vessel
is
not normally
engaged in this type operation and would not normally
carry these type
day shapes because of their size then they need not
be
displayed but they
should make every effort to inform (blowing a horn
like
a NY taxi driver)

Given that I had ample time to cross, was I still
wrong to do so?

If you could do so safely with ample clearance,
no....
ample clearance is
the key phrase.


Even if it had been a properly marked 'real'
towboat,
and
someone crossed in front, causing the tow to turn,
but
no
collision happened, what if anything could/should be
done to
the crossing boat?

First off, a "real" towboat is still obligated to
obey
the normal
steering and sailing rules unless they are RAM (and
RAM
is not an
automatic designation for a towboat), so there can be
any number of
possibilities as to right or wrong in your maneuver.
In answer to your question..... no harm no foul....
expect a tongue
lashing. Naturally if your maneuver was "illegal" and
the turn the
towboat had to make to avoid a collision endangered
or
caused injury to
the tug,it's tow,or crew then you should expect a
report
to the various
authorities and possible actions, collision or not.

Is there penalties for near misses?

To date, not generally.


otn

"otnmbrd" wrote
| Possibly....if he cannot deviate from his course/speed up/slow down


I've been studying the Colregs. I know something about them. Your wrong because what
you say isn't complete. The Rules say it's RAM because of what you say above. But it's got
to be because of the work it's doing. Towing a fellow power boater who broke down or ran
out of gas isn't part of the definition of work. Work's got to do with laying pipes, dredging,
towing if your licensed to do it, repairing buoys etc. Look at it this way. What if I decided to
do a little dredging. I put something that dredges in the back of my little recreational runabout.
I stop somewhere and start dredging. Am I a RAM? No. I'm a law breaker. The work's not legal
so I'm not really working. It's not too hard to figure out.....

Cheers,
Ellen