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Old August 6th 04, 05:09 AM
Melandre
 
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Default Boater wannabe questions (Pacific Northwest area)


My wife and I are now considering purchasing a used boat probably in
the 20' to 30' range. Although I am already actively going through
ads, I also realize that I know very little about the boating lingo,
the costs of ownership (maintenance, fuel, moorage, others) and travel
expectations. I am hoping that the boaters in this NG can answer some
of the many questions I have. Please note that I live near Vancouver,
BC, Canada and some of the questions may be more relevant to people
living in the area. So ,here we go…

1) technical terms : What's a leg? What's a beam? (I wasn't kidding
when I said I was a newbie at this!). Is there a good WEB site which
describes some of the technical features of a boat?

2) With the understanding that all boats are not equal, is there some
magic way to 'guesstimate' fuel cost? The reasoning being that if I
can't even afford the fuel, then I should forget about buying a boat…
For example, if I was to cross from Vancouver to Saltspring Island on
a 25 footer, would I likely look at $25 in fuel or $200 in fuel?

3) Other than these newsgroups, are there other good WEB communities
(forums) for boaters and boater wannabees?

4) Is it unrealistic (or perfectly feasible) to think that I could
simply cruise to the San Juan Islands from Vancouver? Can these boats
handle the normal sea conditions of the Pacific Northwest coastline?
Any idea, how long it may take to go from Vancouver to San Juan Island
(are we talking a few hours or a whole day)?

I am sure I will have plenty of other questions but I will start with
these for now. Yes, I know a lot of these answers will start with 'It
depends' (speed, type of boat, conditions, etc…) but remember that I
am just trying to get an overall understanding of what is possible and
what is not for a boat in the 20' to 30' range. Thanks in advance to
anyone who cares to provides some answers, suggestions,
recommendations…

Andre

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Old August 6th 04, 06:07 AM
Gould 0738
 
Posts: n/a
Default Boater wannabe questions (Pacific Northwest area)

My wife and I are now considering purchasing a used boat probably in
the 20' to 30' range.


You'll discover that a 30-foot boat is about four times the size of a
20-footer, :-)

As you will be transiting the Strait of Georgia on a regular basis, I'd lean
toward the larger end of the range you are considering.

Although I am already actively going through
ads, I also realize that I know very little about the boating lingo,
the costs of ownership (maintenance, fuel, moorage, others) and travel
expectations.


Cost of ownership: That can be almost anything you want it to be, except
extremely cheap. Boats bought cheap routinely cost a fortune to get or keep
running. I don't kow what moorage runs in Vanc. these days, but it's generally
$7-12 per foot per month, depending on the town and marina, just south of you
in Puget Sound. Expect to spend more than you originally guess, because you
will.
In the US, a boat insures for a few to several hundred dollars a year.
Maintenance can be very expensive, or only moderately expensive if you do your
own oil changes, etc.

1) technical terms : What's a leg? What's a beam? (I wasn't kidding
when I said I was a newbie at this!). Is there a good WEB site which
describes some of the technical features of a boat?


A leg is the vertical portion of an outdrive, running between the transom and
the propeller.

Beam is the width of the boat, measured at its widest part.

2) With the understanding that all boats are not equal, is there some
magic way to 'guesstimate' fuel cost? The reasoning being that if I
can't even afford the fuel, then I should forget about buying a boat…


Speed and fuel economy run are incompatible. The most economical (and slowest)
boats will realize close to 4 nautical miles per gallon. The really speedy
hummers? Less than one. Sometimes less than 1/2. You can slow a fast boat down
and get a little better fuel economy, but it won't compare to a trawler
most of the time unless you're running endlessly at idle.......and that creates
other problems.

For example, if I was to cross from Vancouver to Saltspring Island on
a 25 footer, would I likely look at $25 in fuel or $200 in fuel?


I could make that run with my diesel buring about 6 gallons of fuel. Without
getting out the chart and dividers, I guess it would take about 3 hours from
Vancouver to Ganges. There are boats that could easily do it in an hour, but
would probably burn closer to 25 gallons for fuel at a moderate cruise.

4) Is it unrealistic (or perfectly feasible) to think that I could
simply cruise to the San Juan Islands from Vancouver? Can these boats
handle the normal sea conditions of the Pacific Northwest coastline?
Any idea, how long it may take to go from Vancouver to San Juan Island
(are we talking a few hours or a whole day)?


No problem getting from Vancouver to SJI in half a day or less on most boats. I
ran from Victoria to Nanaimo, against the current part way, including a slight
delay at Dodd Narrows in one longish day a cruise or two ago. The first leg of
my late summer cruise will be all the way from Seattle to Friday Harbor, in one
pretty long day.

Unless you have some need for speed, I'd recommend a smallish diesel inboard
boat.
Diesel is usually less expensive to maintain than gas, usually more economical,
and an inboard will usually be less hassle to maintain than an outdrive.

A slow boat is more feasible in the NW because we have so many interesting
destinations within a shot cruise of almost any port you'd care to name.

You won't find twins on most 30 footers, so the outdrive is easier for a newbie
to handle---- or you can get somebody to teach you the subtleties of a single
screw, it isn't as tough as some people imagine it to be.


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Old August 6th 04, 06:10 AM
Wayne.B
 
Posts: n/a
Default Boater wannabe questions (Pacific Northwest area)

On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 04:09:09 GMT, Melandre
wrote:

My wife and I are now considering purchasing a used boat probably in
the 20' to 30' range. Although I am already actively going through
ads, I also realize that I know very little about the boating lingo,
the costs of ownership (maintenance, fuel, moorage, others) and travel
expectations. I am hoping that the boaters in this NG can answer some
of the many questions I have. Please note that I live near Vancouver,
BC, Canada and some of the questions may be more relevant to people
living in the area. So ,here we go…


Understand that there is a big difference between 20 foot boats and 30
foot boats. Let me elaborate: A 20 foot boat might weigh 2500 to
3000 pounds, a 30 foot boat might easily weigh 10,000 pounds. A 20
foot boat is easily trailerable, but very few 30 foot boats are. A 20
foot boat is barely adequate for a family to spend the night, but most
30 footers can do so with no problem. I'm sure you're beginning to
see the pattern here. A 30 foot boat is a lot more capable, but it
is also a lot more expensive to operate, maintain and store.
Therefore it's difficult if not impossible to give answers to many of
your questions without pinning down the size and type.

The smallest boat that I would recommend for the usage you describe is
a 24 ft cuddy cabin. I happen to own a boat like that so I know
something about them. They are frequently powered by 350 cubic inch
Mercruiser V8s (often referred to as "small blocks"). With that
engine a 24 ft cuddy will burn about 10 to 14 gallons per hour and
cruise at 20 to 24 knots (23 to 27 mph). I usually estimate my fuel
consumption at 2 miles per gallon. A 30 footer can easily burn twice
that much when traveling at the same speeds.

1) technical terms : What's a leg? What's a beam? (I wasn't kidding
when I said I was a newbie at this!). Is there a good WEB site which
describes some of the technical features of a boat?


Beam is the maximum width of the boat. The maximum trailerable beam
in most states is 102 inches (8 1/2 feet) so there are a lot of boats
in your size range with exactly that beam. Leg? Probably the lower
portion of the outdrive on an inboard/outboard (I/O) boat.

2) With the understanding that all boats are not equal, is there some
magic way to 'guesstimate' fuel cost? The reasoning being that if I
can't even afford the fuel, then I should forget about buying a boat…
For example, if I was to cross from Vancouver to Saltspring Island on
a 25 footer, would I likely look at $25 in fuel or $200 in fuel?


See above.

3) Other than these newsgroups, are there other good WEB communities
(forums) for boaters and boater wannabees?


This is my favorite for some perverse reason. There are a lot of
knowledgable people in this newsgroup if you can get them to stop
discussing politics.

4) Is it unrealistic (or perfectly feasible) to think that I could
simply cruise to the San Juan Islands from Vancouver? Can these boats
handle the normal sea conditions of the Pacific Northwest coastline?
Any idea, how long it may take to go from Vancouver to San Juan Island
(are we talking a few hours or a whole day)?


Can't speak to that specific area since I'm not from the North West.
A 24 ft boat can handle open water conditions up to about 12 knots of
wind. After that it becomes increasingly uncomfortable and dicey.
Most 30 foot boats can handle 20 knots of wind in open water but not
comfortably, and not at normal cruising speed. Keep in mind that
these are generalizations and much depends on you, the boat, and
specific conditions.


I am sure I will have plenty of other questions but I will start with
these for now. Yes, I know a lot of these answers will start with 'It
depends' (speed, type of boat, conditions, etc…) but remember that I
am just trying to get an overall understanding of what is possible and
what is not for a boat in the 20' to 30' range. Thanks in advance to
anyone who cares to provides some answers, suggestions,
recommendations…

Andre


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Old August 6th 04, 02:56 PM
Melandre
 
Posts: n/a
Default Boater wannabe questions (Pacific Northwest area)

Thank you for the quick replies. Point well taken between the
difference between the 20' vs. 30'. The only reason I was aiming as
high as 30' was because I wanted to be able to sleep on the boat while
travelling around (for example around our Gulf islands or the US San
Juan Islands (I was just at Snug Harbour kayaking last weekend). But
perhaps I should be thinking more in the 23' to 26' range.

Anyway, I'll go digest all the great information you gave me over the
weekend and I am sure I'll be back with more questions soon!

Andre
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Old August 6th 04, 04:42 PM
Lloyd Sumpter
 
Posts: n/a
Default Boater wannabe questions (Pacific Northwest area)

On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 04:09:09 +0000, Melandre wrote:


My wife and I are now considering purchasing a used boat probably in
the 20' to 30' range. Although I am already actively going through
ads, I also realize that I know very little about the boating lingo,
the costs of ownership (maintenance, fuel, moorage, others) and travel
expectations. I am hoping that the boaters in this NG can answer some
of the many questions I have. Please note that I live near Vancouver,
BC, Canada and some of the questions may be more relevant to people
living in the area. So ,here we go…


Hi, neighbour! I'm in Delta, cruised Georgia Strait for 25 yrs or so...
Email me and I'll give you my phone number - maybe we can head out for a
day or so on the water.

1) technical terms : What's a leg? What's a

beam? (I wasn't kidding
when I said I was a newbie at this!). Is there a good WEB site which
describes some of the technical features of a boat?


I'd go to the library and check out a few books on Basic Boating. And/or
buy Chapmans (What's the name? "Chapmans Piloting" or something...). Then
take the Boating Safety course and get your Operators ticket - you'll need
it for your dinghy, and for the big boat in a few years.

Check out: http://safetyafloat.ca/train.html

2) With the understanding that all boats are not equal, is there some
magic way to 'guesstimate' fuel cost? The reasoning being that if I
can't even afford the fuel, then I should forget about buying a boat…
For example, if I was to cross from Vancouver to Saltspring Island on
a 25 footer, would I likely look at $25 in fuel or $200 in fuel?


There are basically two kinds of powerboats: "trawlers" and "planing". A
trawler goes THROUGH the water, a planer goes OVER it. Trawlers
go slow and use little fuel, planers go fast and use lots. Vancouver -
Saltspring is about 40 nm, give or take. A trawler would take about 5-6
hrs and use maybe 40 litres or so. A planer would take 2-3 hrs and use
maybe 150 litres or more. (each way)

3) Other than these newsgroups, are there other good WEB communities
(forums) for boaters and boater wannabees?


Haven't found any with a Canadian West-coast lean. can.rec.boating is
mainly Ontario, and this forum is mainly US east-coast (and US politics!)

4) Is it unrealistic (or perfectly feasible) to think that I could
simply cruise to the San Juan Islands from Vancouver? Can these boats
handle the normal sea conditions of the Pacific Northwest coastline?
Any idea, how long it may take to go from Vancouver to San Juan Island
(are we talking a few hours or a whole day)?


Not unrealistic at all. I cruised all over the Gulf Islands and Georgia
Strait in a 22-ft sailboat. Most days a 24-26ft powerboat has no problems
with the conditions (other times, I wouldn't want to be out in anything
under 40 ft!). One thing: Georgia Strait, Boundary Passage, etc. has HEAVY
tide rips and ship wakes that are usually more dangerous and uncomfortable
than the wind-created waves. Because of this, planing boats often have to
"come down off the plane" and go slowly, becoming inefficient trawlers and
losing their speed advantage.

A trawler would take pretty much all day to go from Vancouver to San
Juans. A planing boat would take anywhere from a few hrs to all day,
depending on sea conditions.

Remember, the San Juans are *US Waters*. You have to clear customs both
ways. This can be a minor inconvenience or a "ruin your life", at the whim
of the border guards. Once, the US INS was having a ****ing contest with
US Customs, and decided the people who cleared Customs on the phone had
NOT cleared Immigration, and seized all the Canadian boats in the San
Juans. Also, Canadian Customs will take any fruit or vegetables you buy in
the US.

Canadian Gulf Islands, or north to Lasquitti, Jervis, Princess Louisa
Inlet, or Desolation Sound are much safer (and more enjoyable!)
destinations. Hell, I even know some places in Howe Sound that are nice...

Finally: you might want to consider a sailboat...

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36



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Old August 6th 04, 06:10 PM
Don White
 
Posts: n/a
Default Boater wannabe questions (Pacific Northwest area)


"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
news snip
Finally: you might want to consider a sailboat...

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36



Good advice Lloyd. The Canadian Gov't hasn't found a way to tax the wind
yet.


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Old August 7th 04, 01:50 AM
Mikkilla
 
Posts: n/a
Default Boater wannabe questions (Pacific Northwest area)



Andre



May i suggest that you go to the Coast Guard and see about attending a Aux
Coast Guard Boating course if your new i know there is a Coast Guard cutter
Post in Bellingham Off of Roder AVE near the Marina there.. * I live in
anacortes * and for most of the inland running around here 20-30 is a good size
to run expect when you his the Strights near san juan island in bad weather..
That can get to be fun on a bad day.

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Old June 6th 22, 04:07 PM
Junior Member
 
First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jun 2022
Posts: 1
Default

I just recently got my Canadian boating license from https://myboatcard.com

I found the course quite easy to follow and the PCOC card was shipped out in 2 days.


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