more ROW questions....
 

Last week while sailing up a river channel, about 200yds
wide, doing 3 kts in light. wind, I spotted , off my
starboard stern quarter, 2 powerboats, 'sitting' next to
each other. I figured they were fishing, or just talking to
each other. Then they seemed to be trolling, very slowly up
river, as I was cutting across the channel at an angle, I
figured I had plenty of time to cross in front of them,
rather than behind in case they WERE trolling lines.
Then the lead PB starts honking his horn ( like a NYer, when
the light turns green) and yelling. I heard something about
my Mother, and towing and privilege. Since we were both
going slow, and not real close, I continued on my coarse. he
never got closer than 100 ft. Only after they passed did I
see the small towing line between them.

Would a 'tow' like this have 'privilege? Would he be
considered a RAM? Wouldn't he need to be displaying a day
shape? Given that I had ample time to cross, was I still
wrong to do so?

Even if it had been a properly marked 'real' towboat, and
someone crossed in front, causing the tow to turn, but no
collision happened, what if anything could/should be done to
the crossing boat?
Is there penalties for near misses?


--
Scott Vernon
Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_

more ROW questions....
 

Scotty wrote:
Last week while sailing up a river channel, about 200yds
wide, doing 3 kts in light. wind, I spotted , off my
starboard stern quarter, 2 powerboats, 'sitting' next to
each other. I figured they were fishing, or just talking to
each other. Then they seemed to be trolling, very slowly up
river, as I was cutting across the channel at an angle, I
figured I had plenty of time to cross in front of them,
rather than behind in case they WERE trolling lines.
Then the lead PB starts honking his horn ( like a NYer, when
the light turns green) and yelling. I heard something about
my Mother, and towing and privilege. Since we were both
going slow, and not real close, I continued on my coarse. he
never got closer than 100 ft. Only after they passed did I
see the small towing line between them.

Would a 'tow' like this have 'privilege? Would he be
considered a RAM?

Yes

Wouldn't he need to be displaying a day
shape?

Tech..yes

Given that I had ample time to cross, was I still
wrong to do so?

no, not if you did not futher restrict his ability

Even if it had been a properly marked 'real' towboat, and
someone crossed in front, causing the tow to turn, but no
collision happened, what if anything could/should be done to
the crossing boat?

Flip him off.

Is there penalties for near misses?

can be if someone pushes the issue and gets the USCG involved.

Joe


--
Scott Vernon
Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_

more ROW questions....
 

"Scotty" wrote
| Would a 'tow' like this have 'privilege?

No!


| Would he be
| considered a RAM? Wouldn't he need to be displaying a day
| shape? Given that I had ample time to cross, was I still
| wrong to do so?

No, no, no....


Sailboats are the stand-on vessel in crossing situations with powerboats. One little power boat towing another isn't a RAM. The
rule is for big ships tugs and barges. It's not meant for small recreational power boats.

Cheers,
Ellen

more ROW questions....
 

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

Given that I had ample time to cross, was I still
wrong to do so?

no, not if you did not futher restrict his ability

Even if it had been a properly marked 'real' towboat,
and
someone crossed in front, causing the tow to turn, but
no
collision happened, what if anything could/should be
done to
the crossing boat?

Flip him off.


I mooned him.

more ROW questions....
 

"Scotty" wrote in
:

Last week while sailing up a river channel, about 200yds
wide, doing 3 kts in light. wind, I spotted , off my
starboard stern quarter,2 powerboats, 'sitting' next to
each other. I figured they were fishing, or just talking to
each other. Then they seemed to be trolling, very slowly up
river, as I was cutting across the channel at an angle, I
figured I had plenty of time to cross in front of them,
rather than behind in case they WERE trolling lines.
Then the lead PB starts honking his horn ( like a NYer, when
the light turns green) and yelling. I heard something about
my Mother, and towing and privilege. Since we were both
going slow, and not real close, I continued on my coarse. he
never got closer than 100 ft. Only after they passed did I
see the small towing line between them.

Would a 'tow' like this have 'privilege?

Not necessarily

Would he be
considered a RAM?

Possibly....if he cannot deviate from his course/speed up/slow down

Wouldn't he need to be displaying a day
shape?

Can't remember where I read this, but no. If a vessel is not normally
engaged in this type operation and would not normally carry these type
day shapes because of their size then they need not be displayed but they
should make every effort to inform (blowing a horn like a NY taxi driver)

Given that I had ample time to cross, was I still
wrong to do so?

If you could do so safely with ample clearance, no.... ample clearance is
the key phrase.


Even if it had been a properly marked 'real' towboat, and
someone crossed in front, causing the tow to turn, but no
collision happened, what if anything could/should be done to
the crossing boat?

First off, a "real" towboat is still obligated to obey the normal
steering and sailing rules unless they are RAM (and RAM is not an
automatic designation for a towboat), so there can be any number of
possibilities as to right or wrong in your maneuver.
In answer to your question..... no harm no foul.... expect a tongue
lashing. Naturally if your maneuver was "illegal" and the turn the
towboat had to make to avoid a collision endangered or caused injury to
the tug,it's tow,or crew then you should expect a report to the various
authorities and possible actions, collision or not.

Is there penalties for near misses?

To date, not generally.


otn

more ROW questions....
 

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
25.201...
"Scotty" wrote in
:

Last week while sailing up a river channel, about 200yds
wide, doing 3 kts in light. wind, I spotted , off my
starboard stern quarter,2 powerboats, 'sitting' next to
each other. I figured they were fishing, or just talking
to
each other. Then they seemed to be trolling, very slowly
up
river, as I was cutting across the channel at an angle,
I
figured I had plenty of time to cross in front of them,
rather than behind in case they WERE trolling lines.
Then the lead PB starts honking his horn ( like a NYer,
when
the light turns green) and yelling. I heard something
about
my Mother, and towing and privilege. Since we were both
going slow, and not real close, I continued on my
coarse. he
never got closer than 100 ft. Only after they passed did
I
see the small towing line between them.

Would a 'tow' like this have 'privilege?

Not necessarily


I didn't think so, but I wasn't sure. I would have gybed
away had he not cursed at me from the get go.




Would he be
considered a RAM?

Possibly....if he cannot deviate from his course/speed
up/slow down


I would imagine he wouldn't want to slow down , seeing as
how short the 'tow rope' ( dockline?) was., but he certainly
could have steered a few degrees to port.




Given that I had ample time to cross, was I still
wrong to do so?

If you could do so safely with ample clearance, no....
ample clearance is
the key phrase.


Ample time in my mind, maybe not his?



Even if it had been a properly marked 'real' towboat,
and
someone crossed in front, causing the tow to turn, but
no
collision happened, what if anything could/should be
done to
the crossing boat?

First off, a "real" towboat is still obligated to obey the
normal
steering and sailing rules unless they are RAM (and RAM is
not an
automatic designation for a towboat), so there can be any
number of
possibilities as to right or wrong in your maneuver.
In answer to your question..... no harm no foul.... expect
a tongue
lashing. Naturally if your maneuver was "illegal" and the
turn the
towboat had to make to avoid a collision endangered or
caused injury to
the tug,it's tow,or crew then you should expect a report
to the various
authorities and possible actions, collision or not.

Is there penalties for near misses?

To date, not generally.


otn


Thanks, otn.

SBV

more ROW questions....
 

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

Scotty wrote:
Last week while sailing up a river channel, about 200yds
wide, doing 3 kts in light. wind, I spotted , off my
starboard stern quarter, 2 powerboats, 'sitting' next to
each other. I figured they were fishing, or just talking to
each other. Then they seemed to be trolling, very slowly up
river, as I was cutting across the channel at an angle, I
figured I had plenty of time to cross in front of them,
rather than behind in case they WERE trolling lines.
Then the lead PB starts honking his horn ( like a NYer, when
the light turns green) and yelling. I heard something about
my Mother, and towing and privilege. Since we were both
going slow, and not real close, I continued on my coarse. he
never got closer than 100 ft. Only after they passed did I
see the small towing line between them.

Would a 'tow' like this have 'privilege? Would he be
considered a RAM?

Yes

Yes, but....

Wouldn't he need to be displaying a day
shape?

Tech..yes

Not just technically... how is one supposed to know? You have to tell people
about your inability to maneauver.

Given that I had ample time to cross, was I still
wrong to do so?

no, not if you did not futher restrict his ability

Exactly.

Even if it had been a properly marked 'real' towboat, and
someone crossed in front, causing the tow to turn, but no
collision happened, what if anything could/should be done to
the crossing boat?

Flip him off.

Is there penalties for near misses?

can be if someone pushes the issue and gets the USCG involved.

Yup, but doubtful there would be penalties... they would tell the crosser
not to do that again.

more ROW questions....
 

Seems like blowing a horn after the fact is a bit late, but it's not clear
if they were sounding the horn before or during.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
25.201...
"Scotty" wrote in
:

Last week while sailing up a river channel, about 200yds
wide, doing 3 kts in light. wind, I spotted , off my
starboard stern quarter,2 powerboats, 'sitting' next to
each other. I figured they were fishing, or just talking to
each other. Then they seemed to be trolling, very slowly up
river, as I was cutting across the channel at an angle, I
figured I had plenty of time to cross in front of them,
rather than behind in case they WERE trolling lines.
Then the lead PB starts honking his horn ( like a NYer, when
the light turns green) and yelling. I heard something about
my Mother, and towing and privilege. Since we were both
going slow, and not real close, I continued on my coarse. he
never got closer than 100 ft. Only after they passed did I
see the small towing line between them.

Would a 'tow' like this have 'privilege?

Not necessarily

Would he be
considered a RAM?

Possibly....if he cannot deviate from his course/speed up/slow down

Wouldn't he need to be displaying a day
shape?

Can't remember where I read this, but no. If a vessel is not normally
engaged in this type operation and would not normally carry these type
day shapes because of their size then they need not be displayed but they
should make every effort to inform (blowing a horn like a NY taxi driver)

Given that I had ample time to cross, was I still
wrong to do so?

If you could do so safely with ample clearance, no.... ample clearance is
the key phrase.


Even if it had been a properly marked 'real' towboat, and
someone crossed in front, causing the tow to turn, but no
collision happened, what if anything could/should be done to
the crossing boat?

First off, a "real" towboat is still obligated to obey the normal
steering and sailing rules unless they are RAM (and RAM is not an
automatic designation for a towboat), so there can be any number of
possibilities as to right or wrong in your maneuver.
In answer to your question..... no harm no foul.... expect a tongue
lashing. Naturally if your maneuver was "illegal" and the turn the
towboat had to make to avoid a collision endangered or caused injury to
the tug,it's tow,or crew then you should expect a report to the various
authorities and possible actions, collision or not.

Is there penalties for near misses?

To date, not generally.


otn

more ROW questions....
 

"Scotty" wrote
| I didn't think so, but I wasn't sure. I would have gybed
| away had he not cursed at me from the get go.



I wonder why your making a big deal out of this. Your sailboat is the stand-on vessel. Recreational small power
boats towing another power boat because it's broke down or something isn't *work*. The nature of *work* is what
makes a RAM. The rule talks about the nature of the work. So they don't have any standing in the rules. They're not
RAM, they're not entitled to special treatment. If they know the rules then they still have to follow the power boat
rules. You didn't do anything wrong.
Don't let power boat people push you around. Most of them know nothing about the rules. Where did they get the
idea that towing their friend who broke down gives them special rights? Does that mean a boat towing a knee boarder
has special rights? Duh! What about when your tow your dinghy behind. Does that give you special rights? Double Duh!
I'm afraid this otn is wrong. He's mostly right but a little wrong.

Cheers,
Ellen

more ROW questions....
 

it was JUST before, I think had I tried to gybe or tack, ,
in that light wind I would have ended up more in their way.

SBV



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Seems like blowing a horn after the fact is a bit late,
but it's not clear
if they were sounding the horn before or during.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"otnmbrd" wrote in message

25.201...
"Scotty" wrote in
:

Last week while sailing up a river channel, about
200yds
wide, doing 3 kts in light. wind, I spotted , off my
starboard stern quarter,2 powerboats, 'sitting' next
to
each other. I figured they were fishing, or just
talking to
each other. Then they seemed to be trolling, very
slowly up
river, as I was cutting across the channel at an angle,
I
figured I had plenty of time to cross in front of them,
rather than behind in case they WERE trolling lines.
Then the lead PB starts honking his horn ( like a NYer,
when
the light turns green) and yelling. I heard something
about
my Mother, and towing and privilege. Since we were both
going slow, and not real close, I continued on my
coarse. he
never got closer than 100 ft. Only after they passed
did I
see the small towing line between them.

Would a 'tow' like this have 'privilege?

Not necessarily

Would he be
considered a RAM?

Possibly....if he cannot deviate from his course/speed
up/slow down

Wouldn't he need to be displaying a day
shape?

Can't remember where I read this, but no. If a vessel is
not normally
engaged in this type operation and would not normally
carry these type
day shapes because of their size then they need not be
displayed but they
should make every effort to inform (blowing a horn like
a NY taxi driver)

Given that I had ample time to cross, was I still
wrong to do so?

If you could do so safely with ample clearance, no....
ample clearance is
the key phrase.


Even if it had been a properly marked 'real' towboat,
and
someone crossed in front, causing the tow to turn, but
no
collision happened, what if anything could/should be
done to
the crossing boat?

First off, a "real" towboat is still obligated to obey
the normal
steering and sailing rules unless they are RAM (and RAM
is not an
automatic designation for a towboat), so there can be
any number of
possibilities as to right or wrong in your maneuver.
In answer to your question..... no harm no foul....
expect a tongue
lashing. Naturally if your maneuver was "illegal" and
the turn the
towboat had to make to avoid a collision endangered or
caused injury to
the tug,it's tow,or crew then you should expect a report
to the various
authorities and possible actions, collision or not.

Is there penalties for near misses?

To date, not generally.


otn