Sailing and Cars
 

We may trade away the Tribeca or Outback for a Toyota Prius next week.
We drove one for two days and got 48 MPG and it was a nice ride...sort
of like being on a Star Trek shuttle.
I could care less about what the car costs so long as I'm not giving
the money to oil. I filled up the Prius ONCE! Amazing little car, but
with an interior sized like a Camry. And of course way fewer emissions.
Time to match sailing with a car that's environmntally friendly to the
very wind we sail by!



RB
35s5
NY

Sailing and Cars
 

wait till you get to feel the force of being hit by a 5,500
suv in one of those asian cracker jak boxes....RIP.....

Sailing and Cars
 

Another dorkmobile? Hey tree hugger, before you jump on your eco
badwagon you should check the facts on those rip off hybrid autos.
It's a proven fact that you will never save in dollars spent on gas for
the additional premium they charge for those cars. Secondly the
maintenence factor is the BIG unknown that the sellers of these cars
won't talk about. Ask the dealer what it would cost to replace the
electric motors and more importantly the batteries. Battery
replacement alone could top $3,000! For once you dummy do some
research before you lay out the money. Don't make the same mistakes
you made on your boat, your home theater and your wife with a history.

Sailing and Cars
 

Another dorkmobile? Hey tree hugger, before you jump on your eco
badwagon you should check the facts on those rip off hybrid autos.
It's a proven fact that you will never save in dollars spent on gas for

the additional premium they charge for those cars.


Since we don't keep cars more than 4 years, how could any of this mean
anything? The cost of the Prius is just 26K with the same interior
volume of a Camry. So where's the "premium cost?" It's a cheap car,
much less than our Tribeca or FXT which is faster than your car and a
wagon! If we TRADE our new FXT directly for it we'll save since it's
already paid for.
I suggest you read owner reviews before repeating what you read in some
silly article...like on anchors and tugboats!

RB
35s5
NY

Sailing and Cars
 

3 grand for batteries seems cheap next to replacing the plastic intake
manifold and crankshaft in any of those cheap vehicles that blow up at
10,000 miles. GM will pay 1.2 billion for this fiasco, Ford will too,
you watch.

3Gs is also cheaper than a new tranny in a conventional ic vehicle like
my old Taurus, with it's tranny designed to fail and force you to buy a
new car every 10 years. Wheelmotor vehicles are more durable, and need
non of that heavy crap like trannys and diff gears, don't need all the
weight of regular brakes, while their internal combustion battery
chargers run at max efficiency and constant rpm, let alone that if
charged at home, fuel costs are effectively eliminated, despite
whatever else you may think. Nuclear electricity is cheaper than oil
fired juice, and the nuclear waste can be put back down the mines it
came out of, sealed in silica glass.

Most cars cruise at about 20 hp. It only for accelleration that we pay
for an extra 150 horses in the engine in our town car commuters, which
weight we then have to drag around to satisfy our testicular urges to
burn rubber at stoplights with our throbbing penis mobiles. One would
hope that a mature person could live without megawatt stereos and
equally stupid overpowered cars and urban tanks which should be taxed
and regulated out of existance for the sake of the environment.

With electric wheelmotor / brakes, we get more internal space, and
batteries can be tucked away under floors and seats, etc. Smaller cars
cause less wind and rolling resistance, resulting in a compounding
cascade of energy efficiency, which will help with fuel damand and
prices. Of course, the oil energy industry would freak out if they
started to lose market share.

Everyone has history.

Terry K

Sailing and Cars
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
We may trade away the Tribeca or Outback for a Toyota Prius next week.
We drove one for two days and got 48 MPG and it was a nice ride...sort
of like being on a Star Trek shuttle.
I could care less about what the car costs so long as I'm not giving
the money to oil. I filled up the Prius ONCE! Amazing little car, but
with an interior sized like a Camry. And of course way fewer emissions.
Time to match sailing with a car that's environmntally friendly to the
very wind we sail by!

Toyotas are well designed and most are made in America. I don't think the
Prius has as much interior room as a Camry, especially the newer ones. The
Prius is more like the Corolla. The Corolla can get 44 MPG on the highway.
Around town, city driving it can go as low as 34 mpg, especially with
ethanol. Also take a look at the Matrix, it comes in 4WD/AWD and gets good
mileage too.

The Prius requires special driving techniques, most drivers do not get the
mileage benefit because the are leadfoots.

The ultimate solution is to drive less.

Amen!

Sailing and Cars
 

3Gs is also cheaper than a new tranny in a conventional ic vehicle
like
my old Taurus,

Your inflating the numbers here to serve your own agenda. I'm pretty
familiar with the costs of replacing Ford Taurus transmissions since we
had quite a few of them as company cars at my last job. The bill for
replacing a transmission in these cars never exceeded $2200 and that
was at a Ford dealer. If you really paid more than $3,000 for a new
Taurus transmission you were ripped off big time and are a lousy
shopper.

Sailing and Cars
 

Toyotas are well designed and most are made in America. I don't think
the
Prius has as much interior room as a Camry, especially the newer ones.
The
Prius is more like the Corolla. The Corolla can get 44 MPG on the
highway.
Around town, city driving it can go as low as 34 mpg, especially with
ethanol. Also take a look at the Matrix, it comes in 4WD/AWD and gets
good
mileage too.

The Prius is quite roomy, more so than the Corolla which I am too tall
for. The Prius has almost the same room as the Camry and more cargo
space. The Matrix is a neat little car. Whatever happens, I know I'm
tired of paying for fuel at 17-25 mpg in my current cars.

RB
35s5
NY

Sailing and Cars
 

The bill for
replacing a transmission in these cars never exceeded $2200 and that
was at a Ford dealer.


Every taurus I ever met needed a new tranny at some point. My buddy's
Sable needed TWO tranny's in 130K miles! How is that every Subaru I
know of is eventually traded away with an intact engine and tranny with
200K miles or more?
There's a reason why Ford, Chrysler and GM are in trouble. The American
cars simply suck.

RB
35s5
NY

Sailing and Cars
 

I like the" Vagina" look of the front grill on the Tribeca!!

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY

Sailing and Cars
 

...

Sailing and Cars
 

That might work, but I like The 3rd row of seats on the Tribeca, for
people it's a "JOKE"...why bother putting them in..( and try to get
into them* giggle*...you can't even fit all the camera gear).

The radio is a real loser...you would think that for a top of the line
SUBARU, they would install a decent radio.

The pick up is very sluggish...LOT'S OF RPM NOISE..BUT YOU DON'T pick
up speed, It's OK in the city were 0-30 rarely happens in under 80
seconds.

I do get lots of looks in the tribeca, and the paint must shine bright
because most people grimance and squint.

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY

Sailing and Cars
 

That might work, but I like The 3rd row of seats on the Tribeca, for
people it's a "JOKE"...why bother putting them in..( and try to get
into them* giggle*...you can't even fit all the camera gear).

The radio is a real loser...you would think that for a top of the line

SUBARU, they would install a decent radio.


The pick up is very sluggish...LOT'S OF RPM NOISE..BUT YOU DON'T pick
up speed, It's OK in the city were 0-30 rarely happens in under 80
seconds.


What 3rd row? We passed on that silly feature. We have a custom stereo
with Icom DVD. Look it up. Top of the line. The Tribeca is the same
speed as a Lexus RX-330 and is hardly slow...oh and it's the quitest
SUV, even more so than the lexus!
Good research there, Joe!


RB
35s5
NY

Sailing and Cars
 

Nutsy,

If you have access to E85 fuel, you should look into a Flex-fuel Car.

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

Sailing and Cars
 

"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On 3 May 2006 06:23:44 -0700, "Capt. Rob" wrote:


The Tribeca is a safer car, and you indicated that safety was very
important to you when you first got it. The Prius isn't awful but it's
not one of the top rated cars in it's class for side impact. Ordering
the optional side air bags helps, but it's still not a "top pick" by
The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, who also rated it
"marginal" for it's seat and head restraint design.



Safety is no longer a factor. It's a moving target. If you haven't figured
it out, RB uses whatever outstanding feature a car (boat, stereo, etc) as
his justification of owning a vehicle.

He claims he drives 20K miles a year and also claims the Tribeca got 25 mpg.
That's 800 gallons/year, let's say $4.00/gallon or $3200/year. If he would
own a car long enough to drop collision insurance it would almost pay for
the gas alone. He's never owned a car for 100,000 miles or 200,000 miles or
300,000 miles. He's paying new car upfront costs every two years plus he's
constantly insuring a new car.

If the Tribeca really gets 17 mpg (as other owners report) then we're
looking at $4700/year in gas expense.

Safety is no longer a consideration when you have to pay for it.

Getting to the hospital in blizzards, tornadoes, floods, sleet storms is no
longer a consideration when you have to pay for.

He just doesn't see the cost in flipping cars so often.

As RB says, "you are what you drive".

Amen!

What hilarious is that an incremental cost gain of 33% in the cost of gas
would make him sell the car. The no headroom in his planing.

Glory!

Sailing and Cars
 

Joe

???

Sailing and Cars
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
We may trade away the Tribeca or Outback for a Toyota Prius next week.
We drove one for two days and got 48 MPG and it was a nice ride...sort
of like being on a Star Trek shuttle.
I could care less about what the car costs so long as I'm not giving
the money to oil. I filled up the Prius ONCE! Amazing little car, but
with an interior sized like a Camry. And of course way fewer emissions.
Time to match sailing with a car that's environmntally friendly to the
very wind we sail by!

Why not ride a bicycle and give nothing to Big Oil?

Max

Sailing and Cars
 

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
. ..
The Corolla can get 44 MPG on the highway. Around town, city driving it
can go as low as 34 mpg, especially with ethanol.

The Toyota Yaris should do even better, and without the price penalty of the
hybrid Prius.

Max

Sailing and Cars
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Toyotas are well designed and most are made in America. I don't think
the
Prius has as much interior room as a Camry, especially the newer ones.
The
Prius is more like the Corolla. The Corolla can get 44 MPG on the
highway.
Around town, city driving it can go as low as 34 mpg, especially with
ethanol. Also take a look at the Matrix, it comes in 4WD/AWD and gets
good
mileage too.

The Prius is quite roomy, more so than the Corolla which I am too tall
for. The Prius has almost the same room as the Camry and more cargo
space. The Matrix is a neat little car. Whatever happens, I know I'm
tired of paying for fuel at 17-25 mpg in my current cars.

Do the math, Bubbles. You'll never break even with that Prius over, say, a
Corolla or especially a Yaris or the small Scion hatchback. There is no
hybrid currently built that will save money overall in the long run. In the
short run--you only keep your cars 4 years--you'll take a beating. And when
an aging Prius is worth roughly $3K and needs a new battery, which costs
roughly $3K, then what?

Max

Sailing and Cars
 

Do the math, Bubbles. You'll never break even with that Prius over,
say, a
Corolla or especially a Yaris or the small Scion hatchback. There is
no
hybrid currently built that will save money overall in the long


Max....
1) What about emissions?
2) What about investing in real world fuel saving technology for the
future?
3) What about the fact that the new Prius and Camry hybrids are also
far more comfortable cars than the typical econobox?
4) What about NOT giving MORE money to big oil and the middle men?


RB
35s5
NY

Sailing and Cars
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote
We may trade away the Tribeca or Outback for a Toyota Prius

Good choice .... For NYC. Better choice = no car at all. After all you depend
on the bureaucracy for everything else, why not transportation?

Sailing and Cars
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote
There's a reason why Ford, Chrysler and GM are in trouble. The American
cars simply suck.

That - and safety - is why Americans buy trucks and SUVs.

Sailing and Cars
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote...
Do the math, Bubbles. You'll never break even with that Prius over, say, a
Corolla or especially a Yaris or the small Scion hatchback. There is no
hybrid currently built that will save money overall in the long

Max....
1) What about emissions?
2) What about investing in real world fuel saving technology for the
future?
3) What about the fact that the new Prius and Camry hybrids are also
far more comfortable cars than the typical econobox?
4) What about NOT giving MORE money to big oil and the middle men?

Come on man, tell it like it is! Hybrids actually take MORE energy and make
MORE pollution to manufacture, maintain and drive than an equivalent econobox.
The real reason anybody buys one is to impress their friends.

Sailing and Cars
 

On Thu, 04 May 2006 04:45:24 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote:


"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
We may trade away the Tribeca or Outback for a Toyota Prius next week.
We drove one for two days and got 48 MPG and it was a nice ride...sort
of like being on a Star Trek shuttle.
I could care less about what the car costs so long as I'm not giving
the money to oil. I filled up the Prius ONCE! Amazing little car, but
with an interior sized like a Camry. And of course way fewer emissions.
Time to match sailing with a car that's environmntally friendly to the
very wind we sail by!

Why not ride a bicycle and give nothing to Big Oil?

Max



Or better yet boob, run everywhere. I seem to recall an old post
where you claimed to be the only runner in the group. However, I'm
still waiting for you to post links to those 5K, 10K, etc. race
results so I can monitor your results and cheer you on.

Frank

Sailing and Cars
 

"Vito" wrote in message
...
"Capt. Rob" wrote...
Do the math, Bubbles. You'll never break even with that
Prius over, say, a
Corolla or especially a Yaris or the small Scion
hatchback. There is no
hybrid currently built that will save money overall in
the long

Max....
1) What about emissions?
2) What about investing in real world fuel saving
technology for the
future?
3) What about the fact that the new Prius and Camry
hybrids are also
far more comfortable cars than the typical econobox?
4) What about NOT giving MORE money to big oil and the
middle men?

Come on man, tell it like it is! Hybrids actually take
MORE energy and make
MORE pollution to manufacture, maintain and drive than an
equivalent econobox.
The real reason anybody buys one is to impress their
friends.


And so they can smell their own farts.


SMUG ALERT !

SV

Sailing and Cars
 

I'd rather have a Fiat Spyder 2000 Robbie.

Capt.Suzy
35s5
NY

Sailing and Cars
 

And so they can smell their own farts.
SMUG ALERT !
SV

Your Nuts Scotty, Robert uses a large brandy sniffer for that.

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY

Sailing and Cars
 

On 4 May 2006 06:52:56 -0700, "SUZY" wrote:

I'd rather have a Fiat Spyder 2000 Robbie.

Capt.Suzy
35s5
NY

That's because you are an idiot. The 600d carries 4 passengers, and
gets over 50 mpg. The Spyder 2000 only carries two people and uses
twice as much gas.

Sailing and Cars
 

minivan ?

Capt. Suzy
35s5
NY

Sailing and Cars
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Do the math, Bubbles. You'll never break even with that Prius over,
say, a
Corolla or especially a Yaris or the small Scion hatchback. There is
no
hybrid currently built that will save money overall in the long


Max....
1) What about emissions?

What about 'em? Like the percentage of hybrid cars is gonna make a
significant difference? Why not pure electric commuter cars, if you really
want to lower emissions? Toyota produced a RAV 4 pure electric car, but it
didn't sell, so they dropped it. Apparently no one is really THAT
interested in reducing auto-produced emissions.

2) What about investing in real world fuel saving technology for the
future?

Hybrids aren't the answer. Question: when all those monstrous hybrid
batteries are defunct, what do you propose to do with all the plastic shells
and the sulfated lead? Turbocharging small engines makes more sense in the
long run for fuel conservation--it's cheaper to produce, easily as
economical, and emission would be roughly the same. So does buring ethanol,
which produces water and carbon dioxide, as opposed to the complex
hydrocarbon emissions gasoline-burning autos produce.

3) What about the fact that the new Prius and Camry hybrids are also
far more comfortable cars than the typical econobox?

Do you really want to reduce emission and burn less fuel, or do you simply
want a comfortable car. Might I suggest a Lincoln Navigator for *real*
comfort. Incidentally, the Camry hybrid is not intended to help conserve
fuel--it's primary purpose is to provide *more power* for the same amount of
fuel burned by smaller, more anemic engines. Same with the Toyota
Highlander hybrid and others. Only the Honda Civic hybrid, the ugly Honda
2-place Insight, and the Prius are really meant as "green" cars.

4) What about NOT giving MORE money to big oil and the middle men?

Big Oil is gonna get your hard-earned cash one way or another, at least
until some real alternatives become reality. Of course as soon as one
mentions ethanol, JLRogers and Old Thom get their hackles up, contending
that only petroleum can power our vehicles. Well guess what--some day the
planet's petroleum will be in such short supply that people either won't
drive vehicles powered with the stuff, or only the extremely rich will be
able to drive cars. Hydrogen fuel cells are a viable alternative, but of
course the big oil mavens can give you dozens of "sound" reasons why that
will never happen, either.

There's plenty of crude in the Earth to power our vehicles for the rest of
our lives. However if you give a **** about your ancestors, you might
consider developing alternatives before they become absolute necessities.

Max

Sailing and Cars
 

There's plenty of crude in the Earth to power our vehicles for the rest
of
our lives.


It's easy to dismiss the current Hybrids, Max, just like almost all
forms of recycling (except for cans) is not really helping. But the
only way these technologies eventually become benificial is when we
invest in them.
My comment about a comfortable car refers to the suggestion of a
Corolla, a car I can't even drive as I'm too tall. Most of those midget
econoboxes won't work for someone over 6'1 tall.
Your comment about the Camry hybrid is dead wrong. Read the specs and
European tests that were done.
Oil may get my money, but they'll get less of it.
Oh, and the Lincoln Navigator is not even in the same high-class of
comfort as my Tribeca. I strongly suggest you drive the awful
Navigator. It's a clear lesson as to why US car companies can't compete
at all.

RB
35s5
NY

Sailing and Cars
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
There's plenty of crude in the Earth to power our vehicles for the rest
of
our lives.


It's easy to dismiss the current Hybrids, Max, just like almost all
forms of recycling (except for cans) is not really helping. But the
only way these technologies eventually become benificial is when we
invest in them.

Hybrids rely on petroleum for all their energy. Are you saying we shouldn't
bother with alternative fuels?

My comment about a comfortable car refers to the suggestion of a
Corolla, a car I can't even drive as I'm too tall. Most of those midget
econoboxes won't work for someone over 6'1 tall.

Ergo my suggestion of a Lincoln Navigator for you. 12mpg, Bubbles.

Your comment about the Camry hybrid is dead wrong. Read the specs and
European tests that were done.

It's not wrong. The Camry hybrid's goal was to allow a more powerful engine
with no more fuel expenditure than a smaller V6. If the project had been
intended as an ultra fuel-efficient. green car, they would have used the
same engine/motor combination as the Prius.

Oil may get my money, but they'll get less of it.

Right, but Toyota will get a lot more of it--more than it needs to. Buy a
Yaris and the bottom line will be less money out of your pocket over the
long run than with a Prius or especially with the Camry or a Honda Accord
hybrid.

Oh, and the Lincoln Navigator is not even in the same high-class of
comfort as my Tribeca. I strongly suggest you drive the awful
Navigator. It's a clear lesson as to why US car companies can't compete
at all.

I wouldn't drive either, thanks.

Max

Sailing and Cars
 

Right, but Toyota will get a lot more of it--more than it needs to.
Buy a
Yaris and the bottom line will be less money out of your pocket over
the
long run than with a Prius or especially with the Camry or a Honda
Accord
hybrid.

You keep chanting this and avoiding facts. Taller people can't drive
those econoboxes. I like Toyota...great cars and they earn their money
by making them better every few months.


The Camry hybrid's goal was to allow a more powerful engine
with no more fuel expenditure than a smaller V6.

And if you read read the results they got high 30's making it a great
car for MPG. And it's large enough for tall people, luggage and crash
safety. End of story.

Hybrids rely on petroleum for all their energy. Are you saying we
shouldn't
bother with alternative fuels?

Alternative fuel powered cars are not practical or really available for
most people, Max. Are you saying that this is good reason to drive a
Lincoln, burn more fuel and polute more than is required. That's some
argument.


RB
35s5
NY

Sailing and Cars
 

Navigator. It's a clear lesson as to why US car companies can't compete
at all.

I wouldn't drive either, thanks.


It helps to drive these cars to have real world understanding of them,
Max.
Which you don't.


RB
35s5
NY

Sailing and Cars
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message

It helps to drive these cars to have real world understanding of them,
Max.
Which you don't.


Which in Bobsprit Speak means that vehicles the size of the Navigator... are
the only ones he doesn't have to order the optional extra large shoehorn to
ladle his bulk behind the wheel.

Bobsprit's weight alone would negate the fuel efficiency of any vehicle...
due to the mass it is required to transport with him inside.

CM-

Sailing and Cars
 

Hey Nutsy,

Have you even looked at the Ford Explore Hybred? It sure looks like it
could make a 6'5" body comfortable. Milage is good and it sure as hell
has more power; Enough for a real SUV, not a make believe.

Have you looked`or not?

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

Sailing and Cars
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Right, but Toyota will get a lot more of it--more than it needs to.
Buy a
Yaris and the bottom line will be less money out of your pocket over
the
long run than with a Prius or especially with the Camry or a Honda
Accord
hybrid.

You keep chanting this and avoiding facts. Taller people can't drive
those econoboxes.

How tall are you? I'm 6' and can sit in a Yaris with at least two or three
inches to spare overhead.

The Camry hybrid's goal was to allow a more powerful engine
with no more fuel expenditure than a smaller V6.

And if you read read the results they got high 30's making it a great
car for MPG. And it's large enough for tall people, luggage and crash
safety. End of story.

Was that 30mpg an all-around average, or just highway. Actually, IIRC,
hybrids get slightly better mileage in city driving, mostly because their
engines shut down at stoplights and restart automatically when the
accelerator is pressed. AND they use more electric motor power for starts,
etc. But my BMW 323Ci gets around 32 on the highway, but averages about 26
overall. A four-cylinder Camry will do even better than that. My
contention is that Toyota wanted to make a car with the power of a big V6
but with the fuel economy of a 4. And they did. If they'd really wanted to
make the Camry hybrid a green ultra-econocar they'd have put a 4cyl with the
electric motor. That wasn't their purpose, however. Same is true with the
Highland hybrid.

Hybrids rely on petroleum for all their energy. Are you saying we
shouldn't
bother with alternative fuels?

Alternative fuel powered cars are not practical or really available for
most people, Max. Are you saying that this is good reason to drive a
Lincoln, burn more fuel and polute more than is required. That's some
argument.

How in Hell did you draw that conclusion?? To the contrary, I think the US
vehicle fleet should be comprised of at least 50% E85-compatible vehicles by
2012. And I think hydrogen fuel cells can be practical for commuter
vehicles. In the meantime, turbocharging can give decent power curves to
smaller engines with acceptable fuel economy without all the complexity and
expense of hybrid systems, to say nothing of avoiding the disposal problem
of megatons of sulfated lead from all those giant batteries the hybrids use.
THAT is a real ecological disaster waiting to happen, if hybrids catch on
more than the few percentage points they now occupy.

Max

Sailing and Cars
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...

And one more thing, Bubbles--that Prius is futt bucking ugly.

Max

Sailing and Cars
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
Navigator. It's a clear lesson as to why US car companies can't compete
at all.

I wouldn't drive either, thanks.


It helps to drive these cars to have real world understanding of them,
Max.
Which you don't.

I've never even sat in a Lincoln Navigator, but I've driven both the current
iteration of the Prius as well as the earlier version. Also driven a Honda
Civic hybrid, a Toyota Highlander hybrid, and a Ford Escape hybrid. I've
also read much of the automotive press' (Road and Track, Motor Trend, Car
and Driver, Consumer Reports) take on hybrids.

The problem, Bubbles, is that you are a typical gullible consumer, grasping
at the first thing that comes along, fully believing you are being 1)
ecologically responsible, and 2) cost efficient.

One outta two ain't bad.

Max

Sailing and Cars
 

How tall are you? I'm 6' and can sit in a Yaris with at least two or
three
inches to spare overhead.

I'm 6'3 and I'm too tall for most compacts. But if you knew something
about driving, you'd also know that even shorter people can have
trouble if their legs are long.


Was that 30mpg an all-around average, or just highway. Actually, IIRC,
hybrids get slightly better mileage in city driving, mostly because
their
engines

Actually, you have no clue. I drove the Prius for several days and we
got MUCH better MPG locally off highway. Owners know it's more than
slightly better.

My
contention is that Toyota wanted to make a car with the power of a big
V6


Your contention is hardly a factor. The FACTS are that the Camry does
great MPG, have lower emmisions and is part of a improving curve of
higher MPG cars that don't sacrifice drivability and comfort.


To the contrary, I think the US
vehicle fleet should be comprised of at least 50% E85-compatible
vehicles by
2012.

And I think warp drive should also be installed. But here on planet
Earth we won't have any such thing. Meanwhile, at least some of us can
opt to spend less on fuel today.


RB
35s5
NY