Gas prices
 

"katy" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
We use cloth. No recycling needed.

Right. You only killed a couple dozen cotton plants instead. g

Max
You should hear all those plants scream come the end of November when they
kill them all off....fields and fields of shrieking plants...

Yes, and their white blood is seen splattered all over fields and the
highways. Just awful.

Max

Gas prices
 

"katy" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
...

Yes. GR has a pro team (or had).

Really? Who were they?

Max
Can't remember....don't follow basketball....GR liked hockey and B team
baseball better....

Van Andel had an arena football team as well.

Max

Gas prices
 

Maxprop wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
We use cloth. No recycling needed.
Right. You only killed a couple dozen cotton plants instead. g

Max
You should hear all those plants scream come the end of November when they
kill them all off....fields and fields of shrieking plants...

Yes, and their white blood is seen splattered all over fields and the
highways. Just awful.

Max


I scraped some up....

Gas prices
 

Maxprop wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
...

Yes. GR has a pro team (or had).
Really? Who were they?

Max
Can't remember....don't follow basketball....GR liked hockey and B team
baseball better....

Van Andel had an arena football team as well.

Max


Still does, I think...

Gas prices
 

Katy,

I think it may be time for you to up-grade your thinking, along with
others.

With the introduction of E85 as a fuel, rather than 100% fossil Fuel and
the advent of Flex-Fuel Vehicles; the days of private transportation may
have a long time to go.

Ford Motors, with its F 150 PU, Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Marquis,
Lincoln Town car, & Explorer SUV all have the ability to operate on
less Fossil Fuel than most other Vehicles being manufacture today.

They are also helping to develop a E85 corridor from Illinois thru
Missouri to make that fuel available to motorist with Fuel-Flex Cars.

If we can reduce our fossil fuel usage by 85% and with our own Petroleum
reserve, Our fuel independence is assured.

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

Gas prices
 

JL,

BIG OIL used the Hurricane to up gasoline prices. I guess now is about
the right time to turn Oil's phony question on them; "How much should a
Gal. of Ethanol Cost?" Bootleggers made a profit selling for between $5
& $6 a gallon and that was using hidden stills, special Hotrod
transporters, and fear of Jail time. I'm sure with legal operation and
even tax breaks, it can be very competitive with todays Gasoline Prices.


Gas prices

Group: alt.sailing.asa Date: Sat, Apr 29, 2006, 12:47am (PDT+7) From:
(jlrogers)
Yeah, until you have a crop failure, like they did acouple of years
back. Also, ethanol can't be transported by pipeline. You'll spend more
energy deliverying it than its worth.

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

Gas prices
 

Huh? Thom, I totally believe in switching to veggie based fuel, not
only ethanol but soy-derived diesel. The letter you posted just
confirmed my suspicions that it is not the product at fault, but the
politics and money behind the oil industry. The specious argument
that switching won't work because vehicles will lose mileage and
create smog is ridiculous. There is smog, and there is SMOG.
Vegetable based smog would not carry the sulfurous fumes that
constitute the pollution we scrub from the fuel now. And losing
mpg? What a joke. All auto manufacturers have to do is put their
nose to the grindstone utilize their E&D departments, and come up
with a way to increase the mileage. After all, they did that very
thing with fossil fuels. Looking for answers with the fossil fuel
people is ridiculous. You actually think they're going to give way?
Too bad some enterprising person with speculative cash galore
doesn't just move right in and take over.


Thom Stewart wrote:
Katy,

I think it may be time for you to up-grade your thinking, along with
others.

With the introduction of E85 as a fuel, rather than 100% fossil Fuel and
the advent of Flex-Fuel Vehicles; the days of private transportation may
have a long time to go.

Ford Motors, with its F 150 PU, Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Marquis,
Lincoln Town car, & Explorer SUV all have the ability to operate on
less Fossil Fuel than most other Vehicles being manufacture today.

They are also helping to develop a E85 corridor from Illinois thru
Missouri to make that fuel available to motorist with Fuel-Flex Cars.

If we can reduce our fossil fuel usage by 85% and with our own Petroleum
reserve, Our fuel independence is assured.

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

Gas prices
 

JL,

Pipelines are problem but not as much a problem as Crude by Tankers, all
the way from the Middle East. The raw material for Ethanol can be
transported by open bed Trucks (Even Horse and wagon) to the
fermentation stations. They can be harvested with out high pressure
wells and transported without fear of explosion and a spill of a load of
Corn doesn't damage the environment like a tank truck rollover, or a
ship running aground or a pipe line braking. Trade off seems to favor
Ethanol. Don't you think?

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

Gas prices
 

"katy" wrote...
Huh? Thom, I totally believe in switching to veggie based fuel, not
only ethanol but soy-derived diesel. The letter you posted just
confirmed my suspicions that it is not the product at fault, but the
politics and money behind the oil industry. The specious argument
that switching won't work because vehicles will lose mileage and
create smog is ridiculous. There is smog, and there is SMOG....

These arguments are hardly specious or ridiculous, they are factual.

Research had shown that the worst component of smog was Nitric Acid so, back in
1970, the gummymint dictated less efficient low compression engines to reduce
Nitric Oxide - the stuff that mixes with water in the air to form these acids -
acids that burn your eyes and rot your curtains and worse. Typical gas mileage
dropped by 30%. A mid-size sedan that had been getting 20mpg in 1969 only got
12 by the 72 model year. This was the primary cause of the gas shortages a few
years later when these "environmentally friendly" cars replaced earlier more
efficient cars. So, how can you get 12 mpg instead of 20 and make less smog?

Nitric Oxide does not come from gasoline, it come from air, which is some 70%
Nitrogen and 28% Oxygen IIRC. Normally the two don't mix. But they do if you
compress them inside an engine then set off an explosion in the chamber. And the
higher the compression pressure (ratio) the more mixes and becomes one of the
strongest acids known. That's why environmentalists were willing to trade poorer
gas mileage and more hydrocarbon emissions for less acid. Simple as that.

Ethanol requires even higher compression ratios than gasoline to burn
efficiently - to extract the most energy per gallon - and diesels depend on very
high compression ratios to run at all. Therefor, if one burns ethanol in a
relatively low compression engine like we have today, designed to minimize
emissions, they will definitely lose gas mileage. How much? Well, when 10%
"gasohol" was popular my cars got 10% poorer mileage, indicating that they were
not burning the alcohol at all, that it was just a filler. OTOH racing engines,
using ultra high ratios burn it fine. So we can switch to ethanol but only if we
redesign our motors to use it - and that means more acid smog. Ditto diesel, we
can use diesel engines, but that too means more acid smog. We cannot repeal the
laws of physics or chemistry.

Gas prices
 

"Thom Stewart" wrote
Pipelines are problem but not as much a problem as Crude by Tankers, all
the way from the Middle East. The raw material for Ethanol can be
transported by open bed Trucks (Even Horse and wagon) to the
fermentation stations. They can be harvested with out high pressure
wells and transported without fear of explosion and a spill of a load of
Corn doesn't damage the environment like a tank truck rollover, or a
ship running aground or a pipe line braking. Trade off seems to favor
Ethanol. Don't you think?

Transport is only part of the picture. Growing and transporting enough corn to
make a gallon of ethanol, then actually making it, consumes mucho energy
itself - some claim it takes more energy to produce than we can get back out of
it. I don't know if that's true but I do know that a tractor plowing a field,
or even just disking and planting "no-till" corn uses more fuel than most folk
can imagine. The exact figures escape me but maybe one of y'all know. Also,
farming is about as dangerous as mining.