Time Marches On!!!
 

"Ringmaster" wrote in message
oups.com...
Read if you don't want your rifle to go KABOOM.

http://www.winchester.com/lawenforce...spx?storyid=11


Here's your difference in bullet length as a function of weight:

http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/basics/pmrb.html

http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/i...56mm_ammo.html



You can test your ammo by chambering it and see if any rifling marks appear
on the bullet and see if the overall length of the round is reduced.

That Winchester warning only applies to heavier bullets because the ogive is
blunter and the bullet is longer.


Hosanna!

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have not experienced the phenom you mentioned thru the home
theater or the TVs speakers when not using the home theater.


Remember, this Sloco clown thinks a 4805 projector has a rainbow effect
problem!!!

From Home Theatre and High Fidelity-
"I was bothered by rainbows when watching DLP-based projectors that
were available a few years ago, but the 4805 uses of a six-segment
color wheel, and rainbows were really not an issue for me with this
projector. If you feel you may be sensitive to seeing rainbows (with
DLP-based projectors about 2% of viewers have this issue), check it out
before you buy."


Bwahahahahahahha! Way to stay current, MORON!

RB
35s5
NY

If he wears glasses he could very well be seeing a rainbow effect. The DLP
does give a slight effect, not usually noticeable by the eye and eyeglasses
can compound the problem.

Time Marches On!!!
 

Bob Crantz wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
...
Peter Wiley wrote:
In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

one is better off with a different means of deterrent than a
gun.

Oh, I forgot to ask what better deterrent might be available under SHTF
conditions? SHTF conditions are no cops, no electricity, no
transportation, no nothing and roving bands of unafraid criminals are
coming. I'm not a gun nut so I'll truly listen.
My picks if I didn't care much about collateral damage:

1. flamethrower. Bit difficult to get hold of, tho.

2. pump action shotgun loaded with buckshot.

3. Any decent semiauto .308 loaded with 150 gr JHP

4. Any decent semiauto .223 loaded with 50gr JHP.

The 308 loaded with FMJ is going to go thru the bad guy, his buddy
behind him, the house behind *him* and maybe a few other items in the
way. With JHP or a nice Nosler solid base boat tail soft nose, the bad
guy is basically going to lose a limb with a hit there, or his chest is
gonna dissolve. PDW
You can make your own homemade flamethrower....you use a can of
hairspray...you have to be careful, though, because sometimes it backfires
and then....you're gone....

The beehive and rolling pin would make me run.


You should see waht I can do with a garlic press!

Time Marches On!!!
 

.... which makes it longer than an 18" barrelled shotgun. Good
choice.

How many times do I need to type "it's illegal" to own a sawed off
shotgun. At least in my state.


Yep, just what you need for home defence, optics.....

I'm not talking 9x scopes here. Red dot or holigraphic optics are
perfect for defense, home or otherwise, since you shoot with both eyes
open. Have you seen those. The military uses them every day. Your
trying to come off as an expert here but you continue to look
uneducated on the topic.

Time Marches On!!!
 

It is an undisputed fact that DLP projectors suffer from the rainbow
effect. The fact that the Boob "really doesn't have an issue" tells me
that he does see it. The current state of the art in PROJECTORS is
Sony's SXRD. And that in a front or rear projector.

Time Marches On!!!
 

That Winchester warning only applies to heavier bullets because the
ogive is
blunter and the bullet is longer.

That's only the Winchester statement. They are not the only ones who
speak on the topic. Read the SAAMI website. Anybody that tells you
there is no difference between a 223 and a 5.56 doesn't know what they
are talking about. Once again ...... SAAMI states that it is an unsafe
practice to shoot 5.56 in a gun that is only designes to shoot 223.
They are the experts.

Time Marches On!!!
 

If he wears glasses he could very well be seeing a rainbow effect.
The DLP
does give a slight effect, not usually noticeable by the eye and
eyeglasses
can compound the problem.

Many experience the effect during head movement. Glasses or no
glasses.

Time Marches On!!!
 

If he wears glasses he could very well be seeing a rainbow effect. The
DLP
does give a slight effect, not usually noticeable by the eye and
eyeglasses
can compound the problem.


I wear glasses, and so do many of my friends. No one has seen any
rainbow effects. The newer projectors have pretty much dialed it out. I
do remember seeing it 3 years ago though. Sloco is not aware of how
dated he is.
I urge anyone about to waste money on a convention set to try one of
these projectors. Many of my friends are buying them after seeing mine.
It's just amazing, especially the HD channels. When you consider that
the thing isn't even true HD, the image quality seems even more
impressive. I'll trade up the moment In Focus releases a HD version as
good as this.

RB
35s5
NY

Time Marches On!!!
 

On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:51:00 -0400, DSK wrote:


snipped a bunch.

Long time ago, the story was that the U.S. military picked
.223 in preference to .308 so as to wound enemy soldiers
rather than kill. Not out of humanity but because that way 2
of the wounded guy's buddies carry him to the rear, so 3 bad
guys leave the fight. Another reason was so that wimpy U.S.
men could pack more bullets into the fight.



Regards
Doug King


Actually, the story was that the M-16 (and the army version AR15?) was
significantly lighter and easier to field strip than the M-14 that it
replaced and all other potential replacements. That was the goal. I
was an armorer at the time and can attest to the fact that they were
right. Both could kill effectively but the M-16 was a lot easier to
carry.

Only problem was the initial production did poorly in the mud. Jammed
regularly. And the initial OJT proving ground was a mud hole. Troops
initially hated it for that reason.

Frank

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
If he wears glasses he could very well be seeing a rainbow effect. The
DLP
does give a slight effect, not usually noticeable by the eye and
eyeglasses
can compound the problem.


I wear glasses, and so do many of my friends. No one has seen any
rainbow effects. The newer projectors have pretty much dialed it out. I
do remember seeing it 3 years ago though. Sloco is not aware of how
dated he is.
I urge anyone about to waste money on a convention set to try one of
these projectors. Many of my friends are buying them after seeing mine.
It's just amazing, especially the HD channels. When you consider that
the thing isn't even true HD, the image quality seems even more
impressive. I'll trade up the moment In Focus releases a HD version as
good as this.

RB
35s5
NY

If you have the room, the DLP projectors are the way to go.

Amen!

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Ringmaster" wrote in message
oups.com...
.... which makes it longer than an 18" barrelled shotgun. Good
choice.

How many times do I need to type "it's illegal" to own a sawed off
shotgun. At least in my state.


Yep, just what you need for home defence, optics.....

I'm not talking 9x scopes here. Red dot or holigraphic optics are
perfect for defense, home or otherwise, since you shoot with both eyes
open. Have you seen those. The military uses them every day. Your
trying to come off as an expert here but you continue to look
uneducated on the topic.


If you take time to aim you with your eyes through an eyepiece you may
become dead, if you had time to aim with your eyes then it may not have been
self defense.

http://www.pointshooting.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_shooting

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087...lance&n=283155


You are to firearms as Bobsprit is to sailing.

Please, please get some real world experience and training.

Shoot at least 5,000 rounds in varying conditions.

Join a paintball team at least.

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:16:09 -0600, "Bob Crantz"
wrote:


"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
roups.com...
If he wears glasses he could very well be seeing a rainbow effect. The
DLP
does give a slight effect, not usually noticeable by the eye and
eyeglasses
can compound the problem.


I wear glasses, and so do many of my friends. No one has seen any
rainbow effects. The newer projectors have pretty much dialed it out. I
do remember seeing it 3 years ago though. Sloco is not aware of how
dated he is.
I urge anyone about to waste money on a convention set to try one of
these projectors. Many of my friends are buying them after seeing mine.
It's just amazing, especially the HD channels. When you consider that
the thing isn't even true HD, the image quality seems even more
impressive. I'll trade up the moment In Focus releases a HD version as
good as this.

RB
35s5
NY

If you have the room, the DLP projectors are the way to go.

Amen!


If you have the room, IMAX is the way to go.


Imax does film only.

If you want it all, go to Odorama:

http://www.kulture-void.com/motion/s...polyester.html

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:36:37 -0600, "Bob Crantz"
wrote:


"Mys Terry" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:16:09 -0600, "Bob Crantz"
wrote:


"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
egroups.com...
If he wears glasses he could very well be seeing a rainbow effect. The
DLP
does give a slight effect, not usually noticeable by the eye and
eyeglasses
can compound the problem.


I wear glasses, and so do many of my friends. No one has seen any
rainbow effects. The newer projectors have pretty much dialed it out.
I
do remember seeing it 3 years ago though. Sloco is not aware of how
dated he is.
I urge anyone about to waste money on a convention set to try one of
these projectors. Many of my friends are buying them after seeing
mine.
It's just amazing, especially the HD channels. When you consider that
the thing isn't even true HD, the image quality seems even more
impressive. I'll trade up the moment In Focus releases a HD version as
good as this.

RB
35s5
NY

If you have the room, the DLP projectors are the way to go.

Amen!


If you have the room, IMAX is the way to go.


Imax does film only.


It's all you need.

Will Wendy Whoppers come flying out of the screen?

Time Marches On!!!
 

In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..

Shrug. My memory is out about the chambers & pressures, but I'm right
about the case sizes. I've reloaded *heaps* of boxer primed ex military
brass, used to buy it for peanuts at gun shows, fired it
interchangeably with commercial brass in both a Rem 700 Varmint and a
Ruger Mini-14. However, it's quite safe to fire 223 Rem ammo in a
military 5.56 NATO chamber. Ruger Mini-14's have been chambered for
both and I used to use one regularly with ex mil 5.56 NATO ammo without
any noticeable ill effects. Maybe because the Rem 700 was a high
quality rifle not a cheap POS.

http://www.thegunzone.com/556v223.html has some interesting comments.

The most likely effect of an over pressure round is a backed out primer
and a possibly binding action, not a rifle going 'kaboom and messing up
your face'. Not desirable, but not the end of the world either. Ask any
serious handloader who's worked up 'hot' loads a bit at a time.

Still, you learn something new every day, hey? No need to thank me for
expanding your knowledge base. If I get bored I'll dig out my reloading
manuals and compare bullet weights & velocities. I assume you do
understand the TANSTAAFL concept insofar as it's pretty hard to get
higher MV with the same bullet weight and less chamber pressure. Of
course that depends somewhat on the powder you've used, but frankly,
I'm not that interested these days and if all you want to do is
endanger your neighbours, you don't need to reload your own ammo.

PDW

The military cases are thicker than commercial and the primer is swaged.

Yep. I used to use a primer pocket reamer to remove the crimp after
punching out the primer.

The
military case holds a little less powder so the CUP (copper units of
pressure) is higher with a commercial load in a mil case. I've separated
cases with occurs just above the base. It can be a crack to complete
separation. I've done it in military semi autos and bolt action rifles.

Never had this happen with 5.56, have seen it happen with .243 reloads.
I put it down to having my full length sizing die set too fine and
moving the case shoulder back a bit.

A
modern firearm is designed to blow the separation away from the face. The
gun does not blow up. You'll notice the headstamp flattened out and the
primer pocket flattened. With rifle rounds, you can't double charge the load
as in pistols so the chances of ever loading something that can burst a
receiver is almost non existent.

IIRC I was using a compressed load of WW 748 - *no* chance of a double
load at all.

OTOH using Unique in 44 Mag cases it was certainly possible. Never
happened to me tho.

PDW

Time Marches On!!!
 

In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

.... which makes it longer than an 18" barrelled shotgun. Good
choice.

How many times do I need to type "it's illegal" to own a sawed off
shotgun. At least in my state.

I dunno. Is it a mantra you chant? Anyway, while no doubt you're
incorrect, keep chanting.

Try a Google search on 'shotgun minimum legal barrel length USA' and
you'll find that the min legal length for a shotgun is 18", as I stated
above. Nowhere did I mention anything about a sawed off shotgun, and
either you know it and are trying to obfuscate, or you actually don't
know that an 18" barrelled gun is legal. So you've learnt something new
- again.

FWIW, in fact it is NOT illegal to own a sawed off shotgun, *unless*
you reduce the bbl length to less than 18". So you're wrong when you
make general statements, too.


Yep, just what you need for home defence, optics.....

I'm not talking 9x scopes here. Red dot or holigraphic optics are
perfect for defense, home or otherwise, since you shoot with both eyes
open. Have you seen those.

I've seen them, used them. A laser dot sight isn't generally referred
to as an optical sight. They have pluses & minuses but I don't think
one would be a bad thing to have on a gun used at 'point & shoot'
ranges, personally.

The military uses them every day.

Yeah and they *train* with them regularly too. How much range time are
you going to put in doing laser dot 'point & shoot'?

Your
trying to come off as an expert here but you continue to look
uneducated on the topic.

OK, fine. You've demonstrated the same level of knowledge of guns as
Bobsprit does about router bits. I'm happy to ignore you.

PDW

Time Marches On!!!
 

In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

My first plan would also be to get out of town. But remember I said a
SHTF condition. Shotgun would be to unwieldy inside of a house. Cut
the barrel off and that's a problem with the law. AR15 packs plenty of
punch if you are using 65 or 75 gr ammo. Normal is 45 or 55 gr. Also
most AR15s shoot 5.56 which is harder hitting than 223. There's enough
dead Iraqs to prove the AR is a good enough weapon.

Do everyone a favour. DO NOT own a gun until you learn something (more)
about them.

1. Using a rifle inside a house is plain stupid. A short barrelled
shotgun is far more useful.

2. Using heavy FMJ bullets is also stupid. Use hollowpoints or soft
nose rounds. The object is to transfer the kinetic energy into the
target, not the wall, next house, etc etc.

3. There is NO DIFFERENCE between 5.56 NATO and .223 except the labels
on the boxes. Go look up the SAAMI ammo spec if you don't believe me.

I could dig out my reloading manuals and quote loads, bullet weights
etc but frankly, I don't give a damn. I do thank my situation tho,
which is not having you for a next door neighbour.

PDW

Don't forget bullet stability as a function twist rate and bullet weight for
the 5.56.

Yeah but not real relevant at sub-50m ranges AFAIK. And Vito's right,
if you start popping bad guys further away than that, it's going to be
real difficult explaining it to the cops as self defence.

PDW

Time Marches On!!!
 

In article . com,
Ringmaster wrote:

That Winchester warning only applies to heavier bullets because the
ogive is
blunter and the bullet is longer.

That's only the Winchester statement. They are not the only ones who
speak on the topic. Read the SAAMI website. Anybody that tells you
there is no difference between a 223 and a 5.56 doesn't know what they
are talking about.

External case dimensions are interchangeable.

Once again ...... SAAMI states that it is an unsafe
practice to shoot 5.56 in a gun that is only designes to shoot 223.
They are the experts.

Right, fer sure, uh huh, all them reloaders and reloading manuals speak
from pure ignorance, uh huh, ok........

How many rounds you fired thru that new toy of yours yet?

You're missing a couple points. First, IIRC your toy is chambered for
5.56, so firing 223 Rem is perfectly safe. Second, IIRC 5.56 NATO mil
spec ammo is exclusively FMJ to comply with the international
protocols. On that one I could be wrong, but all the specific 5.56 ammo
I've ever seen has been FMJ.

Flogged this one to death. You're clutching at one poor straw to avoid
looking like a complete ignoramus, whereas I'm happy to concede that
SAAMI recommend not firing 5.56 NATO in a 223 Rem chamber. Many do,
have & will, tho, and I doubt you can find a single example of a rifle
blowing up as a consequence. Frankly I don't care enough to x-post this
to rec.guns and ask, but be my guest.......

Meanwhile, go learn how to shoot your new toy and more importantly,
when *not* to shoot it. Everyone will be safer and happier.

PDW

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Ringmaster" wrote in message
ups.com...

Question: do you find that such digital broadcasts have weird
sound
quality? My background music is so loud that occasionally the dialog
is
hard to hear. I love the HD, but the sound is unacceptable. All three
TVs
have the same sound problems: a rear-projection, and two LCDs, all
HD.

I have never noticed that. Since most HD programing includes a Dolby
Digital 5.1 soundtrack I usually do the sound through a home theater
system. I have not experienced the phenom you mentioned thru the home
theater or the TVs speakers when not using the home theater.

I believe you've hit on my problem. I don't have the Dolby 5.1, so I'm
betting I'm getting everything compressed into two channels. Thanx.

Max

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Ringmaster" wrote in message
oups.com...


How many times do I need to type "it's illegal" to own a sawed off
shotgun. At least in my state.

Sawed-off? Nothing sawed-off about a shotgun with a federally-legal 18"
barrel.

Max

Time Marches On!!!
 

I've seen them, used them. A laser dot sight isn't generally
referred
to as an optical sight. They have pluses & minuses but I don't think
one would be a bad thing to have on a gun used at 'point & shoot'
ranges, personally.

LOL..................... Dude............. Nobody is talking laser dot
sights. A red dot sight or a holigraphic sight are not laser sights
and are most certainly considered optics. Do you even know what a red
dot sight is? Once again you look like you are out of your area of
knowledge.

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..

The one I had was made in China. Chrome lined bbl. Very reliable,
acceptably accurate but the stock was too short for me. I had too many
toys to bother with it, so off it went.

The Chinese guns were okay, but not quite the quality or finish of the
Russian ones. Trouble is you can't find any Russian guns any more; only
Chinese. Same with AK-47s, which, by the way, are a more cheaply-built gun
than the SKS.

No, never been into shotguns. No real reason/prejudice, I just prefer
rifles.

95% of my hunting has been birds--ducks, geese, and quail, with a few
pheasant and grouse thrown in for good measure--so I've used shotguns
extensively. Also shot trap, skeet, and sporting clays for a while, but got
bored with that. My only current shotguns are a Ruger Red Label 12ga. with
26" barrels, and an 18" Mossberg Mariner (flat nickle finish) with a pistol
grip for carrying on the boat. We had a bad experience a couple of years
back, and now won't cruise unarmed. Beyond that, I mostly have
pistols--mostly target guns, but a few hunters as well and some personal
protection pieces. I like wheelguns, too, but a well-made semi-auto pistol
is hard to beat for target or plinking. I have a Hammerli .22 target pistol
with which I've competed for over 15 years and so far it's never had a
malfunction of any sort, beyond primer voids. It's a super gun, and you
don't have to scrounge brass.

Max

Ditto with handguns, except for 22RF I prefer revolvers. Tho
there it is prejudice; I hate looking for lost brass.

PDW

Time Marches On!!!
 

I believe you've hit on my problem. I don't have the Dolby 5.1, so
I'm
betting I'm getting everything compressed into two channels.
Thanx..

Max, even when watching a HD program and listening to the sound thru
your TVs stereo speakers the sound should appear normal. The sound
wouldn't be compressed you would be getting a normal stereo
presentation. Every Dolby 5.1 soundtrack also includes a stereo
soundtrack to allow for backwards compatability. I would check your
TVs menu under the section where sound adjustments can be made and see
if you can choose between something like "normal" "stereo" "surround"
etc. If you can, try choosing "normal" or "stereo" Sometimes those
other fake matrix surround selections can sound quite weird.

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..

Shrug. My memory is out about the chambers & pressures, but I'm right
about the case sizes. I've reloaded *heaps* of boxer primed ex military
brass, used to buy it for peanuts at gun shows, fired it
interchangeably with commercial brass in both a Rem 700 Varmint and a
Ruger Mini-14. However, it's quite safe to fire 223 Rem ammo in a
military 5.56 NATO chamber. Ruger Mini-14's have been chambered for
both and I used to use one regularly with ex mil 5.56 NATO ammo without
any noticeable ill effects. Maybe because the Rem 700 was a high
quality rifle not a cheap POS.

http://www.thegunzone.com/556v223.html has some interesting comments.

The most likely effect of an over pressure round is a backed out primer
and a possibly binding action, not a rifle going 'kaboom and messing up
your face'. Not desirable, but not the end of the world either. Ask any
serious handloader who's worked up 'hot' loads a bit at a time.

Still, you learn something new every day, hey? No need to thank me for
expanding your knowledge base. If I get bored I'll dig out my reloading
manuals and compare bullet weights & velocities. I assume you do
understand the TANSTAAFL concept insofar as it's pretty hard to get
higher MV with the same bullet weight and less chamber pressure. Of
course that depends somewhat on the powder you've used, but frankly,
I'm not that interested these days and if all you want to do is
endanger your neighbours, you don't need to reload your own ammo.

PDW

The military cases are thicker than commercial and the primer is swaged.

Yep. I used to use a primer pocket reamer to remove the crimp after
punching out the primer.

The
military case holds a little less powder so the CUP (copper units of
pressure) is higher with a commercial load in a mil case. I've separated
cases with occurs just above the base. It can be a crack to complete
separation. I've done it in military semi autos and bolt action rifles.

Never had this happen with 5.56, have seen it happen with .243 reloads.
I put it down to having my full length sizing die set too fine and
moving the case shoulder back a bit.

It happens more often after 5 or so reloads. If the case is too long it will
happen too. I trim the cases with each reload and use a go/no go gauge each
time.



A
modern firearm is designed to blow the separation away from the face. The
gun does not blow up. You'll notice the headstamp flattened out and the
primer pocket flattened. With rifle rounds, you can't double charge the
load
as in pistols so the chances of ever loading something that can burst a
receiver is almost non existent.

IIRC I was using a compressed load of WW 748 - *no* chance of a double
load at all.

I use BLC-2. I've used 4046, 4350, and a few others. The BLC-2 does 7.62 and
5.56 ok.


OTOH using Unique in 44 Mag cases it was certainly possible. Never
happened to me tho.

PDW

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

My first plan would also be to get out of town. But remember I said a
SHTF condition. Shotgun would be to unwieldy inside of a house. Cut
the barrel off and that's a problem with the law. AR15 packs plenty
of
punch if you are using 65 or 75 gr ammo. Normal is 45 or 55 gr. Also
most AR15s shoot 5.56 which is harder hitting than 223. There's
enough
dead Iraqs to prove the AR is a good enough weapon.

Do everyone a favour. DO NOT own a gun until you learn something (more)
about them.

1. Using a rifle inside a house is plain stupid. A short barrelled
shotgun is far more useful.

2. Using heavy FMJ bullets is also stupid. Use hollowpoints or soft
nose rounds. The object is to transfer the kinetic energy into the
target, not the wall, next house, etc etc.

3. There is NO DIFFERENCE between 5.56 NATO and .223 except the labels
on the boxes. Go look up the SAAMI ammo spec if you don't believe me.

I could dig out my reloading manuals and quote loads, bullet weights
etc but frankly, I don't give a damn. I do thank my situation tho,
which is not having you for a next door neighbour.

PDW

Don't forget bullet stability as a function twist rate and bullet weight
for
the 5.56.

Yeah but not real relevant at sub-50m ranges AFAIK. And Vito's right,
if you start popping bad guys further away than that, it's going to be
real difficult explaining it to the cops as self defence.

PDW

I wouldn't use a .223 for close in shooting people in a populated setting.
I'd use a 38 or 9 mm.

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

.... which makes it longer than an 18" barrelled shotgun. Good
choice.

How many times do I need to type "it's illegal" to own a sawed off
shotgun. At least in my state.

I dunno. Is it a mantra you chant? Anyway, while no doubt you're
incorrect, keep chanting.

Try a Google search on 'shotgun minimum legal barrel length USA' and
you'll find that the min legal length for a shotgun is 18", as I stated
above. Nowhere did I mention anything about a sawed off shotgun, and
either you know it and are trying to obfuscate, or you actually don't
know that an 18" barrelled gun is legal. So you've learnt something new
- again.

FWIW, in fact it is NOT illegal to own a sawed off shotgun, *unless*
you reduce the bbl length to less than 18". So you're wrong when you
make general statements, too.


Yep, just what you need for home defence, optics.....

I'm not talking 9x scopes here. Red dot or holigraphic optics are
perfect for defense, home or otherwise, since you shoot with both eyes
open. Have you seen those.

I've seen them, used them. A laser dot sight isn't generally referred
to as an optical sight. They have pluses & minuses but I don't think
one would be a bad thing to have on a gun used at 'point & shoot'
ranges, personally.

The military uses them every day.

Yeah and they *train* with them regularly too. How much range time are
you going to put in doing laser dot 'point & shoot'?

Your
trying to come off as an expert here but you continue to look
uneducated on the topic.

OK, fine. You've demonstrated the same level of knowledge of guns as
Bobsprit does about router bits. I'm happy to ignore you.

PDW

Thompson sold a 14" .410 barrel for the Contender pistol.

Glory!

Time Marches On!!!
 

In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

My first plan would also be to get out of town. But remember I said a
SHTF condition. Shotgun would be to unwieldy inside of a house. Cut
the barrel off and that's a problem with the law. AR15 packs plenty
of
punch if you are using 65 or 75 gr ammo. Normal is 45 or 55 gr. Also
most AR15s shoot 5.56 which is harder hitting than 223. There's
enough
dead Iraqs to prove the AR is a good enough weapon.

Do everyone a favour. DO NOT own a gun until you learn something (more)
about them.

1. Using a rifle inside a house is plain stupid. A short barrelled
shotgun is far more useful.

2. Using heavy FMJ bullets is also stupid. Use hollowpoints or soft
nose rounds. The object is to transfer the kinetic energy into the
target, not the wall, next house, etc etc.

3. There is NO DIFFERENCE between 5.56 NATO and .223 except the labels
on the boxes. Go look up the SAAMI ammo spec if you don't believe me.

I could dig out my reloading manuals and quote loads, bullet weights
etc but frankly, I don't give a damn. I do thank my situation tho,
which is not having you for a next door neighbour.

PDW

Don't forget bullet stability as a function twist rate and bullet weight
for
the 5.56.

Yeah but not real relevant at sub-50m ranges AFAIK. And Vito's right,
if you start popping bad guys further away than that, it's going to be
real difficult explaining it to the cops as self defence.

PDW

I wouldn't use a .223 for close in shooting people in a populated setting.
I'd use a 38 or 9 mm.

Hey, try telling Ringmaster. I've given up. Personally I'd use a 44Mag
carbine like my old Ruger. Not a military type weapon so no 'evil'
connotations, 18" bbl, light, handy & powerful. If I needed more than 5
rounds, it'd be a firefight against too many people and I'd lose
anyway, so wouldn't start.

One of the side effects of smashing my left elbow so badly is I can't
use a Weaver stance any more. Pretty much out of pistols these days,
tho I may take up black powder silhouette just to keep my eye in.
Always did like those Ruger Old Army's in s/s.

PDW

Time Marches On!!!
 

In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

.... which makes it longer than an 18" barrelled shotgun. Good
choice.

How many times do I need to type "it's illegal" to own a sawed off
shotgun. At least in my state.

I dunno. Is it a mantra you chant? Anyway, while no doubt you're
incorrect, keep chanting.

Try a Google search on 'shotgun minimum legal barrel length USA' and
you'll find that the min legal length for a shotgun is 18", as I stated
above. Nowhere did I mention anything about a sawed off shotgun, and
either you know it and are trying to obfuscate, or you actually don't
know that an 18" barrelled gun is legal. So you've learnt something new
- again.

FWIW, in fact it is NOT illegal to own a sawed off shotgun, *unless*
you reduce the bbl length to less than 18". So you're wrong when you
make general statements, too.


Yep, just what you need for home defence, optics.....

I'm not talking 9x scopes here. Red dot or holigraphic optics are
perfect for defense, home or otherwise, since you shoot with both eyes
open. Have you seen those.

I've seen them, used them. A laser dot sight isn't generally referred
to as an optical sight. They have pluses & minuses but I don't think
one would be a bad thing to have on a gun used at 'point & shoot'
ranges, personally.

The military uses them every day.

Yeah and they *train* with them regularly too. How much range time are
you going to put in doing laser dot 'point & shoot'?

Your
trying to come off as an expert here but you continue to look
uneducated on the topic.

OK, fine. You've demonstrated the same level of knowledge of guns as
Bobsprit does about router bits. I'm happy to ignore you.

PDW

Thompson sold a 14" .410 barrel for the Contender pistol.

Yeah but it wasn't a smoothbore was it? Never paid a lot of attention
to those so I dunno, but I'd have thought it'd fall under the
restricted class if it wasn't rifled.

PDW

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Bob Crantz" wrote
Ever read any Peter Kokalis?

Doesn't ring a bell, maybe. Should I?

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Ringmaster" wrote
That's only the Winchester statement. They are not the only ones who
speak on the topic. Read the SAAMI website. Anybody that tells you
there is no difference between a 223 and a 5.56 doesn't know what they
are talking about. Once again ...... SAAMI states that it is an unsafe
practice to shoot 5.56 in a gun that is only designes to shoot 223.
They are the experts.


OK, but that begs the question "Why design or buy a rifle designed to shoot only
223?". All my experience has been with AR-15s and clones the kids in our club
use to shoot military matches so I didn't know there were two seperate 223
rounds til now (Thanks for the info).

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article
. net,
Maxprop wrote:

"Ringmaster" wrote in message

oups.com..
..


How many times do I need to type "it's illegal" to own
a sawed off
shotgun. At least in my state.

Sawed-off? Nothing sawed-off about a shotgun with a
federally-legal 18"
barrel.

I don't think he knows that, Max, and he doesn't seem real
interested
in learning despite my saying it, so I quit.

Far as I can see, he's bought a new boy toy. Nothing wrong
with that
but it's like Bobsprit talking about using an angle
grinder to polish
gelcoat, or his famous powered router bits. Just because
you can or
might own something doesn't make it a good tool for a
particular job.

He's got a rifle that's at least as long as a legal
shotgun, fires ammo
with way excessive range and penetration for an
urban/suburban
situation, and won't be as effective at sub 50m ranges,
let alone sub
10m ranges, as the shotgun. But hey, it has a big
magazine, a folding
stock and a flash hider. Probably came in way cool black,
too. With a
laser dot sight, no less, just like the military use.


If he likes it, and it gives him piece of mind, then it's
the perfect weapon, for him.

SV

Time Marches On!!!
 

"katy" wrote in message
...
Vito wrote:
"katy" wrote
heh...Vito and me on the same boat...would be a matter
of who would
kill who first....

Naw, being old I have strong opinions but always seek
new information with which
to modify or reinforce them. Thats why I like the
discussions here. Didn't you
say you read/spoke Hebrew?


No, I never made that claim. A bit of Spanish is all I
lay claim
too..and that's just tourist Spanish.

Spanglish?

Time Marches On!!!
 

Thats right Scotty. I like the AR-15 myself. But I do have a stainless
steel snake charmer to.

http://practicalpage.com/Shotguns/snak1a.jpg

Joe

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

My first plan would also be to get out of town. But remember I
said a
SHTF condition. Shotgun would be to unwieldy inside of a house.
Cut
the barrel off and that's a problem with the law. AR15 packs
plenty
of
punch if you are using 65 or 75 gr ammo. Normal is 45 or 55 gr.
Also
most AR15s shoot 5.56 which is harder hitting than 223. There's
enough
dead Iraqs to prove the AR is a good enough weapon.

Do everyone a favour. DO NOT own a gun until you learn something
(more)
about them.

1. Using a rifle inside a house is plain stupid. A short barrelled
shotgun is far more useful.

2. Using heavy FMJ bullets is also stupid. Use hollowpoints or soft
nose rounds. The object is to transfer the kinetic energy into the
target, not the wall, next house, etc etc.

3. There is NO DIFFERENCE between 5.56 NATO and .223 except the
labels
on the boxes. Go look up the SAAMI ammo spec if you don't believe
me.

I could dig out my reloading manuals and quote loads, bullet weights
etc but frankly, I don't give a damn. I do thank my situation tho,
which is not having you for a next door neighbour.

PDW

Don't forget bullet stability as a function twist rate and bullet
weight
for
the 5.56.

Yeah but not real relevant at sub-50m ranges AFAIK. And Vito's right,
if you start popping bad guys further away than that, it's going to be
real difficult explaining it to the cops as self defence.

PDW

I wouldn't use a .223 for close in shooting people in a populated
setting.
I'd use a 38 or 9 mm.

Hey, try telling Ringmaster. I've given up. Personally I'd use a 44Mag
carbine like my old Ruger. Not a military type weapon so no 'evil'
connotations, 18" bbl, light, handy & powerful. If I needed more than 5
rounds, it'd be a firefight against too many people and I'd lose
anyway, so wouldn't start.

One of the side effects of smashing my left elbow so badly is I can't
use a Weaver stance any more. Pretty much out of pistols these days,
tho I may take up black powder silhouette just to keep my eye in.
Always did like those Ruger Old Army's in s/s.

PDW

I have the "10/44". I like Rugers, the carbine isn't as easy to conceal in
the house as a pistol. It's a good pig gun.

Amen!

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

.... which makes it longer than an 18" barrelled shotgun. Good
choice.

How many times do I need to type "it's illegal" to own a sawed off
shotgun. At least in my state.

I dunno. Is it a mantra you chant? Anyway, while no doubt you're
incorrect, keep chanting.

Try a Google search on 'shotgun minimum legal barrel length USA' and
you'll find that the min legal length for a shotgun is 18", as I stated
above. Nowhere did I mention anything about a sawed off shotgun, and
either you know it and are trying to obfuscate, or you actually don't
know that an 18" barrelled gun is legal. So you've learnt something new
- again.

FWIW, in fact it is NOT illegal to own a sawed off shotgun, *unless*
you reduce the bbl length to less than 18". So you're wrong when you
make general statements, too.


Yep, just what you need for home defence, optics.....

I'm not talking 9x scopes here. Red dot or holigraphic optics are
perfect for defense, home or otherwise, since you shoot with both eyes
open. Have you seen those.

I've seen them, used them. A laser dot sight isn't generally referred
to as an optical sight. They have pluses & minuses but I don't think
one would be a bad thing to have on a gun used at 'point & shoot'
ranges, personally.

The military uses them every day.

Yeah and they *train* with them regularly too. How much range time are
you going to put in doing laser dot 'point & shoot'?

Your
trying to come off as an expert here but you continue to look
uneducated on the topic.

OK, fine. You've demonstrated the same level of knowledge of guns as
Bobsprit does about router bits. I'm happy to ignore you.

PDW

Thompson sold a 14" .410 barrel for the Contender pistol.

Yeah but it wasn't a smoothbore was it? Never paid a lot of attention
to those so I dunno, but I'd have thought it'd fall under the
restricted class if it wasn't rifled.

PDW

It may have been rifled.

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article . net,
Maxprop wrote:

"Ringmaster" wrote in message
oups.com...


How many times do I need to type "it's illegal" to own a sawed off
shotgun. At least in my state.

Sawed-off? Nothing sawed-off about a shotgun with a federally-legal 18"
barrel.

I don't think he knows that, Max, and he doesn't seem real interested
in learning despite my saying it, so I quit.

Far as I can see, he's bought a new boy toy. Nothing wrong with that
but it's like Bobsprit talking about using an angle grinder to polish
gelcoat, or his famous powered router bits. Just because you can or
might own something doesn't make it a good tool for a particular job.

He's got a rifle that's at least as long as a legal shotgun, fires ammo
with way excessive range and penetration for an urban/suburban
situation, and won't be as effective at sub 50m ranges, let alone sub
10m ranges, as the shotgun. But hey, it has a big magazine, a folding
stock and a flash hider. Probably came in way cool black, too. With a
laser dot sight, no less, just like the military use.

PDW

The problem is he has only one gun. You need at least a dozen guns, just to
get started, for covering the basic scenarios. You need at least one gun for
each car, two for every boat over 25 feet, one for every room in the house,
one for each family member and then a working stock of firearms for everyday
use. Of course backups are needed too and don't forget lots and lots of
ammunition.

I sure Ringmaster has proudly taken his first step into excersizing his
First Amendment Rights and, with our prodigious coaching, will flourish and
grow! Happiness is a warm gun!

Glory!

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Ringmaster" wrote in message
oups.com...
I've seen them, used them. A laser dot sight isn't generally
referred
to as an optical sight. They have pluses & minuses but I don't think
one would be a bad thing to have on a gun used at 'point & shoot'
ranges, personally.

LOL..................... Dude............. Nobody is talking laser dot
sights. A red dot sight or a holigraphic sight are not laser sights
and are most certainly considered optics. Do you even know what a red
dot sight is? Once again you look like you are out of your area of
knowledge.

Aimpoint was the original red dot sight. I have one on my Hammerli target
pistol. And yes, it is an optical sight.

Max

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Ringmaster" wrote in message
ups.com...
I believe you've hit on my problem. I don't have the Dolby 5.1, so
I'm
betting I'm getting everything compressed into two channels.
Thanx..

Max, even when watching a HD program and listening to the sound thru
your TVs stereo speakers the sound should appear normal. The sound
wouldn't be compressed you would be getting a normal stereo
presentation. Every Dolby 5.1 soundtrack also includes a stereo
soundtrack to allow for backwards compatability. I would check your
TVs menu under the section where sound adjustments can be made and see
if you can choose between something like "normal" "stereo" "surround"
etc. If you can, try choosing "normal" or "stereo" Sometimes those
other fake matrix surround selections can sound quite weird.

It's on stereo now, but I'll give mono a try. Anything would be better than
what we have now.

Max

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
. ..

I wouldn't use a .223 for close in shooting people in a populated setting.
I'd use a 38 or 9 mm.

Both are great cartridges for urban defense. Neither had enough penetration
to go through walls (windows are another story), and both will stop
assailants provided you shoot them frequently enough, or until they go down.

I've always figured I'd be in court someday, with the dialog going something
like this:

Prosecutor: "Sir, the forensics report says that you shot the man 12 times.
Why did you shoot him a dozen times?"

Me: "With a full magazine and one in the chamber, sir, that's all the gun
holds."

Max

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

.... which makes it longer than an 18" barrelled shotgun. Good
choice.

How many times do I need to type "it's illegal" to own a sawed off
shotgun. At least in my state.

I dunno. Is it a mantra you chant? Anyway, while no doubt you're
incorrect, keep chanting.

Try a Google search on 'shotgun minimum legal barrel length USA' and
you'll find that the min legal length for a shotgun is 18", as I stated
above. Nowhere did I mention anything about a sawed off shotgun, and
either you know it and are trying to obfuscate, or you actually don't
know that an 18" barrelled gun is legal. So you've learnt something new
- again.

FWIW, in fact it is NOT illegal to own a sawed off shotgun, *unless*
you reduce the bbl length to less than 18". So you're wrong when you
make general statements, too.


Yep, just what you need for home defence, optics.....

I'm not talking 9x scopes here. Red dot or holigraphic optics are
perfect for defense, home or otherwise, since you shoot with both eyes
open. Have you seen those.

I've seen them, used them. A laser dot sight isn't generally referred
to as an optical sight. They have pluses & minuses but I don't think
one would be a bad thing to have on a gun used at 'point & shoot'
ranges, personally.

The military uses them every day.

Yeah and they *train* with them regularly too. How much range time are
you going to put in doing laser dot 'point & shoot'?

Your
trying to come off as an expert here but you continue to look
uneducated on the topic.

OK, fine. You've demonstrated the same level of knowledge of guns as
Bobsprit does about router bits. I'm happy to ignore you.

PDW

Thompson sold a 14" .410 barrel for the Contender pistol.

Yeah but it wasn't a smoothbore was it? Never paid a lot of attention
to those so I dunno, but I'd have thought it'd fall under the
restricted class if it wasn't rifled.

It was rifled in the broadest sense of the term, but the lands took
imagination to see, IIRC.

Max

Time Marches On!!!
 

In article , Bob Crantz
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article . net,
Maxprop wrote:

"Ringmaster" wrote in message
oups.com...


How many times do I need to type "it's illegal" to own a sawed off
shotgun. At least in my state.

Sawed-off? Nothing sawed-off about a shotgun with a federally-legal 18"
barrel.

I don't think he knows that, Max, and he doesn't seem real interested
in learning despite my saying it, so I quit.

Far as I can see, he's bought a new boy toy. Nothing wrong with that
but it's like Bobsprit talking about using an angle grinder to polish
gelcoat, or his famous powered router bits. Just because you can or
might own something doesn't make it a good tool for a particular job.

He's got a rifle that's at least as long as a legal shotgun, fires ammo
with way excessive range and penetration for an urban/suburban
situation, and won't be as effective at sub 50m ranges, let alone sub
10m ranges, as the shotgun. But hey, it has a big magazine, a folding
stock and a flash hider. Probably came in way cool black, too. With a
laser dot sight, no less, just like the military use.

PDW

The problem is he has only one gun. You need at least a dozen guns, just to
get started, for covering the basic scenarios. You need at least one gun for
each car, two for every boat over 25 feet, one for every room in the house,
one for each family member and then a working stock of firearms for everyday
use. Of course backups are needed too and don't forget lots and lots of
ammunition.

I sure Ringmaster has proudly taken his first step into excersizing his
First Amendment Rights and, with our prodigious coaching, will flourish and
grow! Happiness is a warm gun!

Amen, brother! Then you need a full machine shop and a reloader's bench
so you can tune your guns and tailor your ammo.

PDW