In article ,
Dave wrote:
On 22 Feb 2006 09:25:48 -0800, "Joe" said:

I'm even OK with a chain of King Tut, or Abaulla Bob's gas (petrol)
stations. But somethings stinks with this port deal.

I'm not sure how I come down on the substance of this one, but one thing's
clear--all the screaming and yelling reflects pure Xenophobia rather than a
reasoned analysis. And now no matter how it's resolved, it will come back to
bite us.

I agree. There's no point in being hysterical about it. It was as
Frist said, tone deaf, on the part of the administration. What is
clear is that those who approved this (besides being politically
unsupervised children), seems to have gone around the safeguards that
are in place for this sort of transaction.. namely that a firewall
should be put up between the parent company and the US affiliate. This
is standard practice, but it wasn't done. Why? Also, is this the first
time that this sort of thing has happened in the last 6 or so years or
is this just the one that made the news?

--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

In article , Jonathan Ganz
wrote:

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On 22 Feb 2006 09:25:48 -0800, "Joe" said:

I'm even OK with a chain of King Tut, or Abaulla Bob's gas (petrol)
stations. But somethings stinks with this port deal.

I'm not sure how I come down on the substance of this one, but one thing's
clear--all the screaming and yelling reflects pure Xenophobia rather than a
reasoned analysis. And now no matter how it's resolved, it will come back to
bite us.

I agree. There's no point in being hysterical about it. It was as
Frist said, tone deaf, on the part of the administration. What is
clear is that those who approved this (besides being politically
unsupervised children), seems to have gone around the safeguards that
are in place for this sort of transaction.. namely that a firewall
should be put up between the parent company and the US affiliate. This
is standard practice, but it wasn't done. Why? Also, is this the first
time that this sort of thing has happened in the last 6 or so years or
is this just the one that made the news?

I really can't see why you guys are getting upset.

1. WRT security, my experience coincides with Scotty's. I had to get a
gee-whiz new security pass to work on the docks here. BFD, I wave it at
the magic reader and go inside. Mine is issued by the local Ports
Authority which is a State Govt body. In another year apparently
they'll be issued by the Feds. BFD again. It'll make no difference.

2. Security on cargo is, was and probably always will be a joke.
Scanning of cargo ditto. It's got little or nothing to do with the
ports operators, never has and never will. The CUSTOMS people are
responsible. IMHO the only way to ensure security is to check all cargo
on ships prior to berthing. This is obviously impractical so get over
it.

3. Port operators assign berths, cranes to ships, run stores and
container yards, provide other services to ships. Freight forwarders
and Customs deal with moving cargo and tracking cargo. It's obvious you
guys don't understand the differences. Maybe your ports guys do it all,
I dunno, but I doubt it.

4. Ship crew can & do smuggle anything they like, anywhere they like,
any time they like regardless of who's running a port. I could give you
pages of examples but I can't be bothered and it might give away
something my friends wouldn't like known.

5. Longshoremen ditto.

6. Dubai Ports has taken over P&O Ports. That means they will be
running approx 40% of the cargo handling in Australia. Nobody here
really cares. They are also going to be running ports in various other
places on the planet.

Clue time. Maybe their business is running ports, and they actually
know how to do it?

Second clue time. It's real estate. At least here in Oz, these guys run
the port facilities under the overarching control of a Govt body. They
can always lose it. It's not like they can take the port o/s with them
if they have a hissy fit.

This plays like a re-run of the 80's Japanese buying America. WGAF?

PDW

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Jonathan Ganz
wrote:

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On 22 Feb 2006 09:25:48 -0800, "Joe" said:

I'm even OK with a chain of King Tut, or Abaulla Bob's gas (petrol)
stations. But somethings stinks with this port deal.

I'm not sure how I come down on the substance of this one, but one
thing's
clear--all the screaming and yelling reflects pure Xenophobia rather
than a
reasoned analysis. And now no matter how it's resolved, it will come
back to
bite us.

I agree. There's no point in being hysterical about it. It was as
Frist said, tone deaf, on the part of the administration. What is
clear is that those who approved this (besides being politically
unsupervised children), seems to have gone around the safeguards that
are in place for this sort of transaction.. namely that a firewall
should be put up between the parent company and the US affiliate. This
is standard practice, but it wasn't done. Why? Also, is this the first
time that this sort of thing has happened in the last 6 or so years or
is this just the one that made the news?

I really can't see why you guys are getting upset.

1. WRT security, my experience coincides with Scotty's. I had to get a
gee-whiz new security pass to work on the docks here. BFD, I wave it at
the magic reader and go inside. Mine is issued by the local Ports
Authority which is a State Govt body. In another year apparently
they'll be issued by the Feds. BFD again. It'll make no difference.

2. Security on cargo is, was and probably always will be a joke.
Scanning of cargo ditto. It's got little or nothing to do with the
ports operators, never has and never will. The CUSTOMS people are
responsible. IMHO the only way to ensure security is to check all cargo
on ships prior to berthing. This is obviously impractical so get over
it.

3. Port operators assign berths, cranes to ships, run stores and
container yards, provide other services to ships. Freight forwarders
and Customs deal with moving cargo and tracking cargo. It's obvious you
guys don't understand the differences. Maybe your ports guys do it all,
I dunno, but I doubt it.

4. Ship crew can & do smuggle anything they like, anywhere they like,
any time they like regardless of who's running a port. I could give you
pages of examples but I can't be bothered and it might give away
something my friends wouldn't like known.

5. Longshoremen ditto.

6. Dubai Ports has taken over P&O Ports. That means they will be
running approx 40% of the cargo handling in Australia. Nobody here
really cares. They are also going to be running ports in various other
places on the planet.

Clue time. Maybe their business is running ports, and they actually
know how to do it?

Second clue time. It's real estate. At least here in Oz, these guys run
the port facilities under the overarching control of a Govt body. They
can always lose it. It's not like they can take the port o/s with them
if they have a hissy fit.

This plays like a re-run of the 80's Japanese buying America. WGAF?

PDW

Thanks for giving facts so one can consider otherwise.

Amen!

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..

6. Dubai Ports has taken over P&O Ports. That means they
will be
running approx 40% of the cargo handling in Australia.
Nobody here
really cares. They are also going to be running ports in
various other
places on the planet.

Never heard of Dubai. I go to a P&O port about 4 times a
month.

Icould tell you some stories about what goes on at the
piers, but it sounds like you've seen / heard it all before.

Scotty

In article , Scotty
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..

6. Dubai Ports has taken over P&O Ports. That means they
will be
running approx 40% of the cargo handling in Australia.
Nobody here
really cares. They are also going to be running ports in
various other
places on the planet.

Never heard of Dubai. I go to a P&O port about 4 times a
month.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS/02/21/port.europe/

Icould tell you some stories about what goes on at the
piers, but it sounds like you've seen / heard it all before.

Oh yeah. Been involved with shipping for 30 odd years. Some of them
very odd. Actually wrote a port management software package back in the
early 90's, was used in BVI for a while, dunno if it still is. Good
friend of mine's brother is a wharfie (longshoreman to you), father was
one, cousins ditto, one a maritime union representative.

I like ports, ships, general maritime stuff.

PDW

"Peter Wiley" wrote

Never heard of Dubai. I go to a P&O port about 4 times
a
month.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS/02/21/port.europe/

When they say the port of Balt, or NJ, I wonder if it means
all of them, as there are several different ports within
each city. P&O is one of 5 'lines' inside Dundalk Marine
Terminal, which is one of 5 different ports in Balt.



Icould tell you some stories about what goes on at the
piers, but it sounds like you've seen / heard it all
before.

Oh yeah. Been involved with shipping for 30 odd years.
Some of them
very odd. Actually wrote a port management software
package back in the
early 90's, was used in BVI for a while, dunno if it still
is. Good
friend of mine's brother is a wharfie (longshoreman to
you), father was
one, cousins ditto, one a maritime union representative.

I like ports, ships, general maritime stuff.


Yeah, some interesting stuff to fondle while walking around,
including sailboats.
I've gone on a few ships while docked. Just walked up the
gang plank as if I belonged there.
Gotten a LOT of ''free'' stuff off the wharfies over the
years.

My buddy and I picked up a pair of big punch presses a few
years ago. Long story short, his had $3M worth of coke
stashed inside. Customs knew about it from the origin. He
had to testify in court.


Scotty

In article , Scotty
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote

Never heard of Dubai. I go to a P&O port about 4 times
a
month.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS/02/21/port.europe/

When they say the port of Balt, or NJ, I wonder if it means
all of them, as there are several different ports within
each city. P&O is one of 5 'lines' inside Dundalk Marine
Terminal, which is one of 5 different ports in Balt.

I doubt most people know the difference between a port and a cargo
terminal in a port. Joe certainly doesn't.

They have to be talking about the terminals. The only time the 2 are
the same thing is when there is only 1 cargo terminal at a port.

PDW