"Maxprop" wrote in message

I get fingerprinted every three years in order to obtain a firearms carry
permit. BFD--I have nothing to hide. It makes my fingers black and the
cleanup is a PITA, but hardly worth fretting over. It may be an
infringement on my privacy and personal freedom, but it is what I have to
do to accomplish my goal, so I do it without bitching. To refuse to do so
would mean that I am denied my permit to carry. That would affect me--not
those who have instigated the policies.

Good Grief!!... I have never been fingerprinted. I have a restricted weapons
permit, I have an airside access permit, I have a clean record..... having
something to hide isn't the issue here Max..... having information about me
stored within a system as displayed by the US government is. I have the
option not to have that information gathered. Despite our idiotic gunlaws in
Canada.... I don't require a retinal scan nor fingerprinting to obtain
restricted weapons permit.

I'm not chosing to become a global hermit here... nor am I electing to hide
within the masses by compliance. I am merely defining the limits of what I
find acceptable to provide.


And no, you don't offend my national pride, or any such silly, fallacious
conclusion you may concoct, in the least. My point is simply that your
indignation is placing limits on your ability to move about the world. It
has no effect whatever upon me or my countrymen. You're more than welcome
to stand on your principles and avoid the US. We don't care in the
slightest.

Bull****.... it's obvious it offends you. It's not indignation on my part
Max.... it's merely refusal to comply with ridiculous demands. We are all
limited as to our ability to "move about the world"... make no mistake
regarding that fact. Nonetheless... my not having access to the USA in no
way impedes my ability to travel to the remaining 80% of the countries on
this planet that are available to me.
....and Max, I most certainly will stand on my principals.

I guess, then, that you'll not be going anywhere a passport is necessary,
eh?

You're suffering a brain fart there aren't you Max.... I have a passport
and can travel to the majority of the countries on this planet.... which
do not require retinal scans and fingerprinting. I currently have an EEC
Passport, microchipped and a Canadian Permanent Resident Card as well as 2
entry visas to the USA labelled " permanent.indefinite for business or
pleasure" . I'm welcome almost everywhere I choose to go.

CM

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:is%Lf.5313$M52.51@edtnps89...

"Maxprop" wrote in message

I get fingerprinted every three years in order to obtain a firearms carry
permit. BFD--I have nothing to hide. It makes my fingers black and the
cleanup is a PITA, but hardly worth fretting over. It may be an
infringement on my privacy and personal freedom, but it is what I have to
do to accomplish my goal, so I do it without bitching. To refuse to do
so would mean that I am denied my permit to carry. That would affect
me--not those who have instigated the policies.

Good Grief!!... I have never been fingerprinted. I have a restricted
weapons permit, I have an airside access permit, I have a clean
record..... having something to hide isn't the issue here Max.....
having information about me stored within a system as displayed by the US
government is. I have the option not to have that information gathered.
Despite our idiotic gunlaws in Canada.... I don't require a retinal scan
nor fingerprinting to obtain restricted weapons permit.

A complete set of my prints have been on file with the local, state, and
fedral government for decades. And they've never been used for anything. I
have nothing to hide, and as long as that remains the case, that info just
sits there, full of no sound or fury, signifying nothing. You are truly
paranoid. Do you honestly believe that your prints and retinal scans will
be lying one someone's desktop and pulled up now and then and examined?
"Hmm, John, look here at this Mooron fellow. These prints looks awfully
suspicious. Maybe we'd better do some further investigating of this guy. I
think he may be al Qaeda . . ." In fact any prints taken at the US/Canadian
border will end up in an archive, lost and buried. Most won't even get put
on the fingerprint database servers at the FBI, there will simply be too
many of them.

And no, you don't offend my national pride, or any such silly, fallacious
conclusion you may concoct, in the least. My point is simply that your
indignation is placing limits on your ability to move about the world.
It has no effect whatever upon me or my countrymen. You're more than
welcome to stand on your principles and avoid the US. We don't care in
the slightest.

Bull****.... it's obvious it offends you.

Not in the least. I couldn't care less. This entire debate has been a
mildly amusing entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. To believe
otherwise would be arrogant of you--and you certainly don't want to be
viewed as arrogant, now do you? Fact is, Mooron, only you and Ozzy can
debate with something resembling intelligence and cogent arguments. This is
recreation only. Sorry if I've offended you buy informing you that I really
don't give a rat's posterior if you choose to stand on the border and ****
on our country.

It's not indignation on my part Max.... it's merely refusal to comply with
ridiculous demands.

That would actually suffice as a reasonable definition of indignation.

We are all limited as to our ability to "move about the world"... make no
mistake regarding that fact. Nonetheless... my not having access to the
USA in no way impedes my ability to travel to the remaining 80% of the
countries on this planet that are available to me.
...and Max, I most certainly will stand on my principals.

Good for you, Mooron. Everyone has a right to righteous indignation. Even
you.

I guess, then, that you'll not be going anywhere a passport is necessary,
eh?

You're suffering a brain fart there aren't you Max.... I have a passport
and can travel to the majority of the countries on this planet....
which do not require retinal scans and fingerprinting.

Since most countries eventually and ultimately emulate the security
procedures instituted in the US, you may discover fewer and fewer countries
where such identity records aren't accumulated. You may just achieve that
isolationist status yet.

I currently have an EEC Passport, microchipped and a Canadian Permanent
Resident Card as well as 2 entry visas to the USA labelled "
permanent.indefinite for business or pleasure" . I'm welcome almost
everywhere I choose to go.

I hear Damascus is lovely this time of year. g

Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message

A complete set of my prints have been on file with the local, state, and
fedral government for decades. And they've never been used for anything.
I have nothing to hide, and as long as that remains the case, that info
just sits there, full of no sound or fury, signifying nothing. You are
truly paranoid. Do you honestly believe that your prints and retinal
scans will be lying one someone's desktop and pulled up now and then and
examined? "Hmm, John, look here at this Mooron fellow. These prints looks
awfully suspicious. Maybe we'd better do some further investigating of
this guy. I think he may be al Qaeda . . ." In fact any prints taken at
the US/Canadian border will end up in an archive, lost and buried. Most
won't even get put on the fingerprint database servers at the FBI, there
will simply be too many of them.

Wow..... you must be the poster boy for "Resistance is Futile... you will
be Assimilated". The obedient American Citizen. I commend you for your
abject acquiessence. Selection of "Hiding within the Masses" is a viable
method. Compliance to negate red flagging due to volume isn't the strategy I
would employ... but you seem comfortable with it.

Not in the least. I couldn't care less. This entire debate has been a
mildly amusing entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. To believe
otherwise would be arrogant of you--and you certainly don't want to be
viewed as arrogant, now do you? Fact is, Mooron, only you and Ozzy can
debate with something resembling intelligence and cogent arguments. This
is recreation only. Sorry if I've offended you buy informing you that I
really don't give a rat's posterior if you choose to stand on the border
and **** on our country.

I'm not offended.... why should I be? As you pointed out... it's a debate.
I've never considered "Arrogance" as a bad thing. You do however give a
"rat's ass"... that is obvious. My position brings into question your eager
compliance to your government's demands. You have in effect convinced
yourself that a total invasion of your privacy is the only option to keep
the dogs at bay. The problem is that what you view as ****ing on your
country ... is in effect my ability to enact my freedom of choice...
something your country fought hard and long to secure... only to have it
systematically removed, little by little, without question form you at all.
This is the point I don't understand.


That would actually suffice as a reasonable definition of indignation.

You'd best look up the definition of indignation..... then research "non
compliance".... it might indicate where you have gone so wrong and why I am
so right.

Good for you, Mooron. Everyone has a right to righteous indignation.
Even you.

You'll need better bait than that Max...... :-P


Since most countries eventually and ultimately emulate the security
procedures instituted in the US, you may discover fewer and fewer
countries where such identity records aren't accumulated. You may just
achieve that isolationist status yet.

OMG.... what a wonderful impression of an "Ugly American"!!! Let's see what
could I add.... Oh Yeah!.... the only way the USA undertakes geography is
by invasion. I bet hardly anyone in the USA knew where either Vietnam or
Iraq was until you launched a military action in those regions...
congrats.... in another hundred years and 500 thousand American lives...
you'll be at the Grade 4 level of geographic knowledge exibited by most
other nations!

I hear Damascus is lovely this time of year. g

I would be welcomed in Damascus with either a Belgian or Canadian Flag....
what kind of reception would you expect there? Oh Wait... your comment
explains that already.

CM

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:FAjMf.7505$vC4.4558@clgrps12...

"Maxprop" wrote in message

A complete set of my prints have been on file with the local, state, and
fedral government for decades. And they've never been used for anything.
I have nothing to hide, and as long as that remains the case, that info
just sits there, full of no sound or fury, signifying nothing. You are
truly paranoid. Do you honestly believe that your prints and retinal
scans will be lying one someone's desktop and pulled up now and then and
examined? "Hmm, John, look here at this Mooron fellow. These prints
looks awfully suspicious. Maybe we'd better do some further
investigating of this guy. I think he may be al Qaeda . . ." In fact
any prints taken at the US/Canadian border will end up in an archive,
lost and buried. Most won't even get put on the fingerprint database
servers at the FBI, there will simply be too many of them.

Wow..... you must be the poster boy for "Resistance is Futile... you will
be Assimilated". The obedient American Citizen. I commend you for your
abject acquiessence. Selection of "Hiding within the Masses" is a viable
method. Compliance to negate red flagging due to volume isn't the strategy
I would employ... but you seem comfortable with it.

Very. As I said, I have nothing to hide. You, OTOH, must have some serious
closet skeletons lurking about.


Not in the least. I couldn't care less. This entire debate has been a
mildly amusing entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. To believe
otherwise would be arrogant of you--and you certainly don't want to be
viewed as arrogant, now do you? Fact is, Mooron, only you and Ozzy can
debate with something resembling intelligence and cogent arguments. This
is recreation only. Sorry if I've offended you buy informing you that I
really don't give a rat's posterior if you choose to stand on the border
and **** on our country.

I'm not offended.... why should I be? As you pointed out... it's a
debate. I've never considered "Arrogance" as a bad thing.

My father once told me that arrogance is okay if you've got something
substantive to back it up. Do you? Please excuse me if I choose not to
take your word for it.

You do however give a "rat's ass"... that is obvious.

Nope. Frankly I think Scotty summed it up best--our border security has
been successful: it's keeping Mooron out. g

My position brings into question your eager compliance to your
government's demands. You have in effect convinced yourself that a total
invasion of your privacy is the only option to keep the dogs at bay. The
problem is that what you view as ****ing on your country ... is in effect
my ability to enact my freedom of choice... something your country fought
hard and long to secure... only to have it systematically removed, little
by little, without question form you at all. This is the point I don't
understand.

It's simple, really. I haven't surrendered any of my freedoms. To the
contrary, by being fingerprinted every three years, I can exercise my right
to carry a concealed firearm. And having my prints on file with the FBI and
everyone on down is hardly "a total invasion of (my) privacy." In fact,
posting one's own name on this NG is surrendering far more privacy than any
fingerprinting. I value my privacy, and I'm not pleased with some of the
turns this country is taking, such as the Supreme Court decision that allows
taking anyone's private property under the rules of eminent domain in order
to allow a private enterprise to build a new shopping center there. Or the
unauthorized NSA wiretapping bull****. And those are just the tip of the
iceberg. At least we know about such things. How many such things exist in
Canada of which you simply have no knowledge? I'm betting there are plenty.

That would actually suffice as a reasonable definition of indignation.

You'd best look up the definition of indignation..... then research "non
compliance".... it might indicate where you have gone so wrong and why I
am so right.

Then check your Webster's for a definition of "delusional," which is a
rather apt description of your current situation.


Good for you, Mooron. Everyone has a right to righteous indignation.
Even you.

You'll need better bait than that Max...... :-P


Since most countries eventually and ultimately emulate the security
procedures instituted in the US, you may discover fewer and fewer
countries where such identity records aren't accumulated. You may just
achieve that isolationist status yet.

OMG.... what a wonderful impression of an "Ugly American"!!! Let's see
what could I add.... Oh Yeah!.... the only way the USA undertakes
geography is by invasion. I bet hardly anyone in the USA knew where either
Vietnam or Iraq was until you launched a military action in those
regions...

Vietnam was having a rather nice little war when we became involved and
took over for the French at the behest of NATO. And why haven't you
mentioned Kosovo or Bosnia? Could it be because we did something good and
constructive there when no one else chose to do so? Why haven't you
mentioned our liberation of Panama? Did you forget about that, or don't you
know where Panama is? Why haven't you mentioned the Falkland Islands? Is
it because you have no bitch with Britain? And how about Spain, the Dutch,
and the Brits, who for centuries colonized all over the world via the
bloodshed method?

congrats.... in another hundred years and 500 thousand American lives...
you'll be at the Grade 4 level of geographic knowledge exibited by most
other nations!

At least we know where Canada is, and we've done something about it. I've
advocated invasion, but no one's listening to me.


I hear Damascus is lovely this time of year. g

I would be welcomed in Damascus with either a Belgian or Canadian Flag....
what kind of reception would you expect there? Oh Wait... your comment
explains that already.

Lovely place--can't wait to go. And I'd be welcome there as well.
Americans travel within Syria, Iran, and Pakistan daily. That probably
upsets you something awful, dunnit?

Enough of this. You're ****ed off, and it's becoming too long to be
entertaining. Have the last word, if you must.

Max

Maxprop wrote:
Vietnam was having a rather nice little war when we became involved and
took over for the French at the behest of NATO.

Wow, you're really making a strong statement here.

And I thought Vito was the foremost practitioner of willful
ignorance on this subject!

Would you also say that the National Guard fired on students
at Kent State in self defense?

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Maxprop wrote:
Vietnam was having a rather nice little war when we
became involved and
took over for the French at the behest of NATO.

Wow, you're really making a strong statement here.

And I thought Vito was the foremost practitioner of
willful
ignorance on this subject!

Would you also say that the National Guard fired on
students
at Kent State in self defense?

Yes they did, those college kids had wine bottles.

SV

Would you also say that the National Guard fired on
students
at Kent State in self defense?


Scotty wrote:
Yes they did, those college kids had wine bottles.


And they weren't sharing?

DSK

"DSK" wrote
And I thought Vito was the foremost practitioner of willful
ignorance on this subject!

I know Doug's the expert - he read all about 'nam and Jesus in a science fiction
work about a turtle.

Would you also say that the National Guard fired on students
at Kent State in self defense?


But I have been to Kent State. If you look at a map only a 100 yards or so
seperated the kids from the Guard - what that ignores is that the 100 yards
comprises a near vertical bluff.

OTOH, the killings did achieve Nixon's objective - the anti-war demos more or
less evaporated.