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It's not hard to see how this might be offensive... just as saying the N
word in front of people is... people of any race. It seems to me that there are some standards of behavior that are obvious. Declaring something as acceptable or unacceptable doesn't determine if it can be used, just whether or not it should be used. For example, the cartoons that are causing an uproar with Muslims are offensive, but that doesn't mean a gov't should ban them. It does mean that someone who chooses to publish them is willing to accept condemnation from those around him. The US gov't declared that the cartoons were offensive, but that didn't stop ABC from airing a couple of them, for example. Some are enjoying the semantic games, but I very much doubt that they would use terms such as these in person. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "DSK" wrote in message . .. Please tell me if you think it's ok to use the phrase "jewing down." We might as well see just what is and isn't acceptable to some people here. "katysails" wrote Not acceptable... It's not a phrase I'd use myself, but I think it's possible to go overboard trying to declare what is/isn't acceptable as third party. Maxprop wrote: Scotty--do you use the term "Jewish overdrive" for neutral? I always heard that was an old trucker's term. Scotty's not old. Where did you hear it, on Car Talk? ;) DSK |
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Please show me where I used the term vote. I asked for people's opinion.
What control freak mentality are you talking about? We already banned lawyers from the group. :-) -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Dave" wrote in message ... Capt. JG wrote: How about this... Please tell me if you think it's ok to use the phrase "jewing down." We might as well see just what is and isn't acceptable to some people here. I find the very concept of such a vote despicable. It's symptomatic of the control freak mentality the in pervading more and more of our lives. Shall we ban lawyer jokes because my feelings might be hurt? I don't think so. The last thing we need is a speech code. |
Is this ok? was Bush to build Concentration Camps, Cheney to Profit!
"DSK" wrote in message . .. Please tell me if you think it's ok to use the phrase "jewing down." We might as well see just what is and isn't acceptable to some people here. "katysails" wrote Not acceptable... It's not a phrase I'd use myself, but I think it's possible to go overboard trying to declare what is/isn't acceptable as third party. Maxprop wrote: Scotty--do you use the term "Jewish overdrive" for neutral? I always heard that was an old trucker's term. Scotty's not old. Where did you hear it, on Car Talk? ;) Old terms get passed down even to the youngsters. Of course Scotty's probably not a youngster, either. First heard that term from an old trucker. Imagine that. Max |
Is this ok? was Bush to build Concentration Camps, Cheney to Profit!
"Maxprop" wrote in message ink.net... "katy" wrote in message ... Capt. JG wrote: How about this... Please tell me if you think it's ok to use the phrase "jewing down." We might as well see just what is and isn't acceptable to some people here. Not acceptable... Scotty--do you use the term "Jewish overdrive" for neutral? I always heard that was an old trucker's term. I knew it as 'Georgia overdrive', but , I did hear it that way too. When I was a kid, my Mom lectured me one time after I used the phrase, ''that's a gyp. She explained that a good friend of ours was Jewish and she felt that was derogatory to Jews. I think some people are just too sensitive. Scotty |
Is this ok? was Bush to build Concentration Camps, Cheney to Profit!
"DSK" wrote Maxprop wrote: Scotty--do you use the term "Jewish overdrive" for neutral? I always heard that was an old trucker's term. Scotty's not old. No, but I used to hang with old timers, guys that started driving in 1940s. Scotty |
Is this ok? was Bush to build Concentration Camps, Cheney to Profit!
"Dave" wrote in message ... Capt. JG wrote: How about this... Please tell me if you think it's ok to use the phrase "jewing down." We might as well see just what is and isn't acceptable to some people here. I find the very concept of such a vote despicable. It's symptomatic of the control freak mentality the in pervading more and more of our lives. Shall we ban lawyer jokes because my feelings might be hurt? I don't think so. The last thing we need is a speech code. right, and the first thing we need is to get rid of all the lawyers. Scotty |
Is this ok? was Bush to build Concentration Camps, Cheney to Profit!
"Capt. JG" wrote in message ... Please show me where I used the term vote. I asked for people's opinion. What control freak mentality are you talking about? We already banned lawyers from the group. :-) how would *you* feel if we banned gays from the group? SV |
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That's bizarre... Did you ask why?
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Scotty" wrote in message ... When I was a kid, my Mom lectured me one time after I used the phrase, ''that's a gyp. She explained that a good friend of ours was Jewish and she felt that was derogatory to Jews. I think some people are just too sensitive. Scotty |
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You mean Mooron? :-) I would feel bad.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Scotty" wrote in message ... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... Please show me where I used the term vote. I asked for people's opinion. What control freak mentality are you talking about? We already banned lawyers from the group. :-) how would *you* feel if we banned gays from the group? SV |
Is this ok? was Bush to build Concentration Camps, Cheney to Profit!
"Scotty" wrote in message
... "Dave" wrote in message ... Capt. JG wrote: How about this... Please tell me if you think it's ok to use the phrase "jewing down." We might as well see just what is and isn't acceptable to some people here. I find the very concept of such a vote despicable. It's symptomatic of the control freak mentality the in pervading more and more of our lives. Shall we ban lawyer jokes because my feelings might be hurt? I don't think so. The last thing we need is a speech code. right, and the first thing we need is to get rid of all the lawyers. Shakespeare reborn on ASA |
Is this ok? was Bush to build Concentration Camps, Cheneyto Profit!
Scotty wrote:
"Maxprop" wrote in message ink.net... "katy" wrote in message ... Capt. JG wrote: How about this... Please tell me if you think it's ok to use the phrase "jewing down." We might as well see just what is and isn't acceptable to some people here. Not acceptable... Scotty--do you use the term "Jewish overdrive" for neutral? I always heard that was an old trucker's term. I knew it as 'Georgia overdrive', but , I did hear it that way too. When I was a kid, my Mom lectured me one time after I used the phrase, ''that's a gyp. She explained that a good friend of ours was Jewish and she felt that was derogatory to Jews. I think some people are just too sensitive. Scotty Must be a heritage thing...in our house, the word "gyp" referred to someone who was Rom and their trading practices... |
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"Capt. JG" wrote
No, you didn't. "Vito" wrote I just showed where it is. That' what startd the discussion. Is Abraham important in Jewish history? Did he not bargain God himself down from 50 to 5 souls? Sorry but I don't have my Pentateuch handy. Try GEN 18:23-33 in the KGB. Also, I was mistaken. I was from 50 to 10 (not 5). |
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"Capt. JG" wrote in message
... No one cares if it offends you. The point is that it offends the vast majority of a people. Naw, just the PC pukes you're familiar with - Generation X weirdos who go catatonic if they hear a "bad" word. |
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"Capt. JG" wrote
Just don't try and tell me that it's ok to say whatever you like just because we have a thing called free speech. .... Obviously no one can tell you anything since you choose to remain forever misinformed. As a child I once come home sniveling that some other kids had called me bad names. My wise grandmother quoted a childrens' verse "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names shall never hurt me." The verse is absolutely correct - no word(s) can hurt anybody unless the victim allows them to. I took that to heart and was never hurt by names again or jokes again, ethnic or personal. I'm sorry if the weak are hurt or offended by various innocous phrases - not because of having voiced them but because of that persons' weakness and the insecurity that causes him/her the pain. But that weakness is self imposed. Ask yourself why a phrase like "Jew down" offends you? Are you Jewish but ashamed of it? Or perhaps you are so paranoid that you believe everybody hates Jews? Might I suggest that you wouldn't be offended if you were *proudly* Jewish and believed, as I do, that only nutcases hate any ethnic group. Or are you so antisemetic yourself that you ascribe negative thoughts to the word "Jew"? If so, do you think everybody is as antisemetic as yourself and are ashamed of yourself and them? Perhaps counseling might help. In any event, it is YOUR own hangups that are causing you discomfort. Meanwhile, the world is full of ethnic jokes and phrases, most based on a grain of truth. Why can't Italians drown? Cuz we're afraid of water and when we're afraid we talk and when we talk we wave our arms like we were swimming. Why do Polish have round shouldersand flat foreheads? Because they shrug when asked that question then slap their forehead when they hear the answer. Why do NYrs ..... no that IS too dirty. Too bad you can't enjoy them. |
Is this ok? was Bush to build Concentration Camps, Cheney to Profit!
"Mys Terry" wrote in message ... On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 18:05:36 -0500, DSK wrote: Scotty's not old, he just smells that way. Well, get your nose outa my butt! |
Is this ok? was Bush to build Concentration Camps, Cheney to Profit!
Claimed that the word 'gyp' is a derivative from the word 'Jew.
Anyway, we were kids, didn't stop using the word. Scotty "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... That's bizarre... Did you ask why? -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Scotty" wrote in message ... When I was a kid, my Mom lectured me one time after I used the phrase, ''that's a gyp. She explained that a good friend of ours was Jewish and she felt that was derogatory to Jews. I think some people are just too sensitive. Scotty |
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"Vito" wrote in message Why can't Italians drown? cause oil and water don't mix? |
Bush to build Concentration Camps, Cheney to Profit!
"Capt. JG" wrote
I have no argument with Crantz, various sockpuppets, or anyone saying disgusting or hateful things. I don't have to like it, and I have just as much right to express my opinion as they do to say it. Yes, you certainly do, and I don't recall anyone telling you to shut up. OTOH, I do urge you to strive to understand that these "things" are "disgusting and hateful" only to you and people like you who have pavlovian responses - responses drummed into you by your upbringing in a very artificial world. It is your own mind and prejudices that are hurting and disgusting you - words cannot. They can only trigger your own pavlovian responses. Those of us who voided or shed these prejudices can even enjoy jokes tht you cannot. Did you hear about the sailors marooned on a desert island facing certain death? A geni pops up and offers each one a single wish. Oh, to be back in Scotland says Scotty and poof, there he is. I wish I was captaining a well provisioned 100' yacht with an all-girl crew through the south Pacific wished the Auzzi and poof! Whine, cried the NYr. I'm so lonely! I wish all my PC friends were here with me ... and poof .... |
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"katy" wrote
Not acceptable... If you say so Katy .... |
Is this ok? was Bush to build Concentration Camps, Cheneyto Profit!
Scotty wrote:
Claimed that the word 'gyp' is a derivative from the word 'Jew. Anyway, we were kids, didn't stop using the word. Scotty "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... That's bizarre... Did you ask why? -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Scotty" wrote in message . .. When I was a kid, my Mom lectured me one time after I used the phrase, ''that's a gyp. She explained that a good friend of ours was Jewish and she felt that was derogatory to Jews. I think some people are just too sensitive. Scotty Gyp=gypsy=Rom |
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Vito wrote:
"katy" wrote Not acceptable... If you say so Katy .... I've seen the destruction that words cause. Your scenario of "sticks and Stones" is valid, however naive. Words do hurt and not everyone is strong. The strong have the obligation to protect the weak. We are a highly ordered animal and survival of the fittest went out with the industrial age...If your argument is that it shouldn't, that the strongest should still prevail, then you must also eschew those things that help you to survive such as modern medicine. There is nothing wrong with a modicum of sensitivity to your fellow man. Callousness destroys and leads to usage of slang and jingoism that affronts and destroys. |
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"Dave" wrote in message ... On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 10:16:30 -0500, katy said: There is nothing wrong with a modicum of sensitivity to your fellow man. No dispute about that. I suggest that individual sensitivity to one's fellow man is far preferable to groupthink of the type Jon seems to propose. I find it unfortunate that increasingly a rule-based "there oughta be a law" approach is replacing other social controls such as learned individual sensitivity. Heh Dave I agree.... and nothing makes me feel better than to Jew Down a Jew or Out Leb a Lebanese. Bwahahahahahahahahaaaaa Remember...... "Never Mince Words to Spare the Sensibilities of the Thin Skinned & Ignorant"- Capt. Neal CM |
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Oh man....your going to get a jap slap from Jon for that one.
Joe |
Is this ok? was Bush to build Concentration Camps, Cheney to Profit!
"Capt. JG" wrote in message
... That's bizarre... Did you ask why? A couple I knew a while back were Gypsies from which the term "gyp" derives. They were Jewish albiet not mainstream. They claimed that all true Gypsies were Jewish and descended from Jews driven out of Judea by the Romans who became nomadic rather than settling into ghettos. Your question proves my point. Why would you think it bizzare for Jews (Gypsies) to be offended by "gyp", a term meaning to cheat, but think that "Jewing down", a term that means honest haggling, is derogatory? |
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"Dave" wrote
The problem is that implicit in the phrase is the assumption that the speaker regards haggling as an undesirable trait, ..... That's what I've been trying to say to bobsy -- that the *problem* is in an *assumption* that prolly isn't true. Thus any injury is done by the 'assumer' to him/herself. Logic dictates that one should stop injuring oneself. One problem is that the assumption may not be correct in all cases. .... Or even in most cases today. There are all kinds of subtleties here, and great potential for miscommunication, so it's not a good phrase to use. I would tend to agree, I just don't think any word or phrase is Earth shattering as the PC among us believe. I have no desire to hurt anybody's feelings but neither will I let their illogical assumptions unreasonably limit my choice of words. I wish I could offer some good Jewish joke to illustrate my point but none come to mind. |
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"Vito" wrote in message
... "Dave" wrote The problem is that implicit in the phrase is the assumption that the speaker regards haggling as an undesirable trait, ..... That's what I've been trying to say to bobsy -- that the *problem* is in an *assumption* that prolly isn't true. Thus any injury is done by the 'assumer' to him/herself. Logic dictates that one should stop injuring oneself. Bob was involved in the conversation? You're deluded. The phrase has nothing to do with haggling abilities or tendencies. The phrase has everything to do with putting down a class of people. One problem is that the assumption may not be correct in all cases. .... Or even in most cases today. Neither statement merits much comment.. all cases?? No exceptions? Most cases? Absolutely most cases, as best as can be deterimined by the limited sample we all have available. There are all kinds of subtleties here, and great potential for miscommunication, so it's not a good phrase to use. I would tend to agree, I just don't think any word or phrase is Earth shattering as the PC among us believe. I have no desire to hurt anybody's feelings but neither will I let their illogical assumptions unreasonably limit my choice of words. I wish I could offer some good Jewish joke to illustrate my point but none come to mind. There are very few subtketies with the phrase, unless you're uneducated. |
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Well, here we go. I must be mis-informed because you think it's ok to use a
commonly known derogatory comment to bolster your feeble areguments. I think we all know what early- to mid-century dictator was good enough to provide us an example of the result of the kind of thinking you have shown. Are you really so stupid to equate an ethnic joke to a phrase used by rednecks when they think they've been cheated? Here's a story for you.. I was working at a very large hi-tech company. My boss just finished negotiating with a peer of his over a particular deliverable. When he got done, I happened to talk to the other guy who called him a f*cking kike, saying he really jewed me down. Of course, it was shocking that someone so obviously intelligent would make such a comment. He surely was embarrassed when I told him that my boss was actually Lutheran. You sound like a child to me... someone who can't understand why an obviously offensive behavior is offensive. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Vito" wrote in message ... "Capt. JG" wrote Just don't try and tell me that it's ok to say whatever you like just because we have a thing called free speech. .... Obviously no one can tell you anything since you choose to remain forever misinformed. As a child I once come home sniveling that some other kids had called me bad names. My wise grandmother quoted a childrens' verse "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names shall never hurt me." The verse is absolutely correct - no word(s) can hurt anybody unless the victim allows them to. I took that to heart and was never hurt by names again or jokes again, ethnic or personal. I'm sorry if the weak are hurt or offended by various innocous phrases - not because of having voiced them but because of that persons' weakness and the insecurity that causes him/her the pain. But that weakness is self imposed. Ask yourself why a phrase like "Jew down" offends you? Are you Jewish but ashamed of it? Or perhaps you are so paranoid that you believe everybody hates Jews? Might I suggest that you wouldn't be offended if you were *proudly* Jewish and believed, as I do, that only nutcases hate any ethnic group. Or are you so antisemetic yourself that you ascribe negative thoughts to the word "Jew"? If so, do you think everybody is as antisemetic as yourself and are ashamed of yourself and them? Perhaps counseling might help. In any event, it is YOUR own hangups that are causing you discomfort. Meanwhile, the world is full of ethnic jokes and phrases, most based on a grain of truth. Why can't Italians drown? Cuz we're afraid of water and when we're afraid we talk and when we talk we wave our arms like we were swimming. Why do Polish have round shouldersand flat foreheads? Because they shrug when asked that question then slap their forehead when they hear the answer. Why do NYrs .... no that IS too dirty. Too bad you can't enjoy them. |
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That's what I thought... well, gypsies are fair game. :-)
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "katy" wrote in message ... Scotty wrote: Claimed that the word 'gyp' is a derivative from the word 'Jew. Anyway, we were kids, didn't stop using the word. Scotty "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... That's bizarre... Did you ask why? -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Scotty" wrote in message .. . When I was a kid, my Mom lectured me one time after I used the phrase, ''that's a gyp. She explained that a good friend of ours was Jewish and she felt that was derogatory to Jews. I think some people are just too sensitive. Scotty Gyp=gypsy=Rom |
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It proves you're not too smart. Gyp is ambigous at best. If someone told me
as an adult that it was offensive to them, I'd stop using it, at least in their presence. You're incapable of doing that, so therefore you must not be an adult or you're not to bright. You pick. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Vito" wrote in message ... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... That's bizarre... Did you ask why? A couple I knew a while back were Gypsies from which the term "gyp" derives. They were Jewish albiet not mainstream. They claimed that all true Gypsies were Jewish and descended from Jews driven out of Judea by the Romans who became nomadic rather than settling into ghettos. Your question proves my point. Why would you think it bizzare for Jews (Gypsies) to be offended by "gyp", a term meaning to cheat, but think that "Jewing down", a term that means honest haggling, is derogatory? |
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Well said.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "katy" wrote in message ... Vito wrote: "katy" wrote Not acceptable... If you say so Katy .... I've seen the destruction that words cause. Your scenario of "sticks and Stones" is valid, however naive. Words do hurt and not everyone is strong. The strong have the obligation to protect the weak. We are a highly ordered animal and survival of the fittest went out with the industrial age...If your argument is that it shouldn't, that the strongest should still prevail, then you must also eschew those things that help you to survive such as modern medicine. There is nothing wrong with a modicum of sensitivity to your fellow man. Callousness destroys and leads to usage of slang and jingoism that affronts and destroys. |
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What group think is that. Picture yourself in a crowded room. You're talking
in a loud voice, because it's noisy, and you use that phrase. Do you think that it would be group think to imagine that it might be offensive to a good percentage of the people in the room? Let's say it's a room full of lawyers. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Dave" wrote in message ... On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 10:16:30 -0500, katy said: There is nothing wrong with a modicum of sensitivity to your fellow man. No dispute about that. I suggest that individual sensitivity to one's fellow man is far preferable to groupthink of the type Jon seems to propose. I find it unfortunate that increasingly a rule-based "there oughta be a law" approach is replacing other social controls such as learned individual sensitivity. |
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It's a chink in his armor, so I'll let it go.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Joe" wrote in message oups.com... Oh man....your going to get a jap slap from Jon for that one. Joe |
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Please show me where I told you to stop. You know nothing about me, so the
rest of your post is, of course, crap. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Vito" wrote in message ... "Capt. JG" wrote I have no argument with Crantz, various sockpuppets, or anyone saying disgusting or hateful things. I don't have to like it, and I have just as much right to express my opinion as they do to say it. Yes, you certainly do, and I don't recall anyone telling you to shut up. OTOH, I do urge you to strive to understand that these "things" are "disgusting and hateful" only to you and people like you who have pavlovian responses - responses drummed into you by your upbringing in a very artificial world. It is your own mind and prejudices that are hurting and disgusting you - words cannot. They can only trigger your own pavlovian responses. Those of us who voided or shed these prejudices can even enjoy jokes tht you cannot. Did you hear about the sailors marooned on a desert island facing certain death? A geni pops up and offers each one a single wish. Oh, to be back in Scotland says Scotty and poof, there he is. I wish I was captaining a well provisioned 100' yacht with an all-girl crew through the south Pacific wished the Auzzi and poof! Whine, cried the NYr. I'm so lonely! I wish all my PC friends were here with me ... and poof .... |
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Another example of someone who can't or won't think.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Vito" wrote in message ... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... No one cares if it offends you. The point is that it offends the vast majority of a people. Naw, just the PC pukes you're familiar with - Generation X weirdos who go catatonic if they hear a "bad" word. |
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I can't imagine that you would be wrong about anything.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Vito" wrote in message ... "Capt. JG" wrote No, you didn't. "Vito" wrote I just showed where it is. That' what startd the discussion. Is Abraham important in Jewish history? Did he not bargain God himself down from 50 to 5 souls? Sorry but I don't have my Pentateuch handy. Try GEN 18:23-33 in the KGB. Also, I was mistaken. I was from 50 to 10 (not 5). |
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Capt. JG wrote:
That's what I thought... well, gypsies are fair game. :-) Excuse me???? |
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So, Dave, you're saying that when you say something like jewing down
someone, this has no negative connotation beyond sight of either coast? Does this mean that you believe people in the fly over states are uneducated or just rude by nature? Or, is there some other justification you'd like to give for atrocious behavior? Or, wait, are you saying that just because a bunch of people think it's ok to say things like this, that makes it ok to say them... What exactly are the subtleties of which you speak? I would really like to know. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Dave" wrote in message ... On Mon, 6 Feb 2006 09:26:36 -0800, "Capt. JG" said: There are very few subtketies with the phrase, unless you're uneducated. The inability to appreciate such subtleties is, I suspect, the result of the above writer's own provincialism. There's a big world outside the right and left coasts, Jon. |
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Which silly efforts are those? Being aware of those around you? Being aware
that words can be like daggers? Being aware that it's a slippery slope between what a few people start out saying and things like what happened in the early part of the previous century? -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Dave" wrote in message ... On Mon, 6 Feb 2006 09:28:21 -0800, "Capt. JG" said: Please explain the purpose of the "ah, errr" - what does this imply about you I wonder. No question in my mind about what it says about Vito. It says he has enough to sense to recognize, and poke a little tongue in cheek fun at, silly efforts to avoid offending others' sensibilities. Dave -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Vito" wrote in message ... "Bob Crantz" wrote It is very illegal to use racial epitaphs. .... Reminds me of a case in Maryland some years back. A group of ... ah, errr, ... AfroAmericns |
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Jus kiddin... that's why the smilie at the end... I like gypsies... great
hats. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "katy" wrote in message ... Capt. JG wrote: That's what I thought... well, gypsies are fair game. :-) Excuse me???? |
Is this ok? was Bush to build Concentration Camps, Cheney to Profit!
"Dave" wrote in message ... On Mon, 6 Feb 2006 09:37:42 -0800, "Capt. JG" said: I'd stop using it, at least in their presence. LOL. IOW, it's fine to tell Pollack jokes so long as there are no Pollacks around. They never get the punch line anyway. Scotty |
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